Great news! Over 20 dead in Orlando Night Club!

[Toni]

This seems to be a lone wolf type of shooting, not a conspiracy like the concert shootings in Paris. This is an American specialty that is related to the easy access to weapons here. It should be obvious that the easier it is to buy weapons specifically designed to kill people the more mass killings like this you are going to have.

We don't have the percentage of Muslims that Europe does, it's harder for them to get a group together.

So does Dearborn, MI, have an unusual number of terrorists shooting people?

 

[barbos]

Like all wars and terrorist acts it looks like religion was used as justification for a violent act of hatred. This guys dad said he had expressed disgust over a couple of guys kissing a few weeks ago.

I wonder where his son got this hatred from, could it be his taliban loving father?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Clearly, the solution is to let people bring firearms to nightclubs so that there more drunken people with guns.

Also, Islam is a religion of peace so the shooter wasn't a real Muslim.

This is the terrible conundrum the left and right face, and you stated it perfectly.

"If there woulda been a good guy with a gun..."

1) A good guy with a gun is generally the most effective way to stop the crazy-shooters. (Whether it works against terrorist-shooters is unknown but it probably doesn't work nearly as well.)

2) Most of these incidents occur in locations where the good guys are disarmed. The bad guys of course pay no attention to those laws.

 

[Ford]

A good guy with a gun is generally the most effective way to stop the crazy-shooters.

There was one on the scene in Orlando.

 

[Bomb#20]

You have a hidden assumption here: that guns don't have an upside.

In practice the number of people who die in these big newsworthy events is far less than the number who are saved by guns. It's just the press doesn't like reporting such things unless the shooting is questionable.

To get rid of the mass shootings would get rid of the defensive uses also--and that's a net loss for society.

Get a lot of people saved by the defensive uses of AR-15s, do we?

 

[repoman]

A spokesman for the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center, which maintains the bureau’s watchlists, would not say if Mateen was on a bureau watchlist or had been removed from one.

“The Terrorist Screening Center does not publicly confirm nor deny whether any individual may be included in the US Government’s Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB) or a subset list,” spokesman Dave Joly said in an email.

“Disclosure of an individual’s inclusion or non-inclusion in the TSDB or on the No Fly List would significantly impair the government’s ability to investigate and counteract terrorism, and protect transportation security.”

 

[Bomb#20]

You forgot Ronald RaygunLeonid Brezhnev contribution. He is the one who started Afghan War...

FIFY

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The gun control thing? The shooter was - until 2:02am this morning at least - a "responsible gun owner" with a license to carry, and the "if only there were a good guy with a gun" narrative falls flat due to the fact that there was an armed police officer there when the shooting began.

A good guy with a gun isn't always able to stop such things, especially in a dense crowd that denies one a clean shot.

Remember the Giffords shooting? Multiple good guys with guns but they didn't have a clear shot and so they didn't do anything.

- - - Updated - - -

The attempted LA Pride shooter was a white guy from Indiana. Does #Trump want to ban Indianans?

https://twitter.com/MSignorile/status/742114388300169216

Trump will just consider this a spelling error, with an extra an.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course it will become about those "mooslim" terrorists--because this was clearly one of them.

No, this guy was a pretender. A fake. A fan club member as opposed to a member of the band.



He called 911 to pledge his "allegiance" to ISIS. Emergency services doesn't exactly forward calls to the Islamic State.


He's an ISIS terrorist in the same way that John Hinkley was Jodie Foster's boyfriend. He sure wanted to be, but he was just trying to impress someone that wouldn't otherwise give him the time of day.

ISIS encourages such lone-wolf actions.

 

[barbos]

You forgot Ronald RaygunLeonid Brezhnev Ronald Raygun contribution. He is the one who started Afghan War...

FIFY

I am sorry but I have to correct your correction, you were clearly misinformed there.

 

[RavenSky]

Would you say the same for a man pledging allegiance to the Northwest Front, Golden Dawn etc... but who had never officially corresponded with them?

It's not clear to whom this is addressed. Not a single person in this thread called this man an ISIS terrorist.

Actually, Loren (of course) already has. A couple of others have hinted at it.

The man's ex-wife was interviewed; said she divorced him because he was violent, described him as "bipolar", but no indications of radicalization at that point.

- - - Updated - - -

at 1:55 of this video Obama from June 2nd Obama is talking about known ISIL sympathizers on the no-fly list who can't be on a no-gun list because of the NRA. Gripping stuff. Not sure what my opinion is about it.

I saw that a day or so ago, and have been thinking about it all day.

 

[laughing dog]

The fact that he wanted to hitch his wagon to the ISIS star does not make him not a Muslim, and it does not make him not a terrorist.

True, but the fact he wanted to hitch his wagon to the ISIS star does not make him a Muslim either.

 

[Toni]

So you accept the logic that if we can't stop all of the shootings that there is no reason to try to stop most of the shootings?

You have a hidden assumption here: that guns don't have an upside.

In practice the number of people who die in these big newsworthy events is far less than the number who are saved by guns. It's just the press doesn't like reporting such things unless the shooting is questionable.

To get rid of the mass shootings would get rid of the defensive uses also--and that's a net loss for society.

So, you have a source for that information?

 

[Metaphor]

at 1:55 of this video Obama from June 2nd Obama is talking about known ISIL sympathizers on the no-fly list who can't be on a no-gun list because of the NRA. Gripping stuff. Not sure what my opinion is about it.

I saw that a day or so ago, and have been thinking about it all day.

Forgive the metaphor, but the NRA did not hold a gun to anyone's head. It's the American Congress and every single legislator who votes against gun control that is the problem.

 

[repoman]

Would regular attendance at a mosque and generally following Islamic rules make him a muslim?

 

[Metaphor]

The fact that he wanted to hitch his wagon to the ISIS star does not make him not a Muslim, and it does not make him not a terrorist.

True, but the fact he wanted to hitch his wagon to the ISIS star does not make him a Muslim either.

No, the fact that he was a Muslim makes him a Muslim. (This is not in contention surely; he'd been going to mosque for ten years).

 

[RavenSky]

The fact that he wanted to hitch his wagon to the ISIS star does not make him not a Muslim, and it does not make him not a terrorist.

True, but the fact he wanted to hitch his wagon to the ISIS star does not make him a Muslim either.

I don't think there is any question he was Muslim, but I don't think that has anything to do with anything in and of itself. It doesn't appear (so far) that he was overtly fundamentalist or "radicalized" - at least not when he was married.

It sounds like religion probably had something to do with what he did as he expressed outrage at seeing 2 men kiss while he was in Miami. But that is not the same as saying he is "ISIS" or even "ISIS inspired"

 

[laughing dog]

True, but the fact he wanted to hitch his wagon to the ISIS star does not make him a Muslim either.

I don't think there is any question he was Muslim, but I don't think that has anything to do with anything in and of itself. It doesn't appear (so far) that he was overtly fundamentalist or "radicalized" - at least not when he was married.

It sounds like religion probably had something to do with what he did as he expressed outrage at seeing 2 men kiss while he was in Miami. But that is not the same as saying he is "ISIS" or even "ISIS inspired"

I've known a number of non-religious homophobes in my time.

 

[RavenSky]

I saw that a day or so ago, and have been thinking about it all day.

Forgive the metaphor, but the NRA did not hold a gun to anyone's head. It's the American Congress and every single legislator who votes against gun control that is the problem.

Oh I agree with you there!

 

[RavenSky]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7A9YlFqReg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Colonel Sanders]

FIFY

I am sorry but I have to correct your correction, you were clearly misinformed there.

No. The Soviets invade Afghanistan and then the U.S. simply returned the favor the Soviets did for it in Vietnam and supplied the rebels with weapons that drove the U.S.S.R the fuck outta there.

Now back to the thread topic.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that he wanted to hitch his wagon to the ISIS star does not make him not a Muslim, and it does not make him not a terrorist.

True, but the fact he wanted to hitch his wagon to the ISIS star does not make him a Muslim either.

He was raised in a Muslim family, prayed at mosques, and called himself a Muslim.

He was a Muslim.

The same standard applies to this fuck as it does to all those who profess themselves to be Christians. If that's what they identify as, then that's what they are.