Pickup Artists Preyed on Drunk Women, Brought Them Home, and Raped Them

[RavenSky]

It is a very long, detailed article; and it would have been another one of those cases Derec likes to say are "morning after regrets"... except that the rapists blogged about their exploits. Two of the three have pled guilty. One claims it was all consensual. He's the one who was fucking her literally while she was vomiting... but he says it was consensual.

But according to San Diego’s district attorney, Alex and Jonas—both 27 years old—are predators and the pursuit of their “art” has led to the rape of multiple women.

In what may be a first for the pickup community, the two men—along with their “student,” 28-year-old Jason Berlin—were charged in 2015 with the rape of a San Diego woman. Jonas and Jason pleaded guilty to the charges; Alex has maintained his innocence, claiming—contrary to Jason and Jonas’s sworn pleas—that the events of that night were consensual.

On a Saturday night in October 2013, Claire, then 31, went out with her friend, let’s call her Laura, for a girl’s night out in San Diego’s trendy Gaslamp Quarter...

Just what Claire drank that night, at what times and in what quantities, would become the subject of intense scrutiny over the next three years; her state of drunkenness was at the heart of the state’s argument as well as Alex Smith’s defense. The prosecution says that Claire had been too drunk to consent to sex, Alex’s defense attorney says she couldn’t have been that drunk.

Claire was tipsy, then slightly tipsier, as she remembers it.

When the bars closed for the night, Claire and Laura shuffled out with the rest of the crowd onto Fifth Avenue. They called an Uber, and as they waited, they were approached by two men, Jonas Dick and Alex Smith.
Jonas and Alex were no strangers to meeting girls on that street at that time: they referred to two in the morning as “pull o’clock” because of how easy it was to bring home the last women leaving the bars. They invited Claire and Laura to their place for drinks. It was only a few blocks away...

As I said, it is a very long and detailed account of her rape, and for a change - a detailed look at the rapists' backgrounds instead of the victims. I think perhaps the worst part was at the very end of the article - evidence of so many other women who were most likely raped by these men but never came forward.

This sordid sorry tale simply reinforces what I have said before - most rapists are predators and repeat rapists. Every time our resident rape deniers start wringing their hands about #NotAllMen and how men shouldn't be denied their drunken fucks, I just have to wonder why they can't acknowledge predators like these three men... why they have to always assume the rape victim is lying.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

That's pretty gross. I think the most telling line in the article is when they're talking about the class they gave and one of the students asked how to tell the difference between "token resistance" and "real resistance" and they just laughed at the guy.

Also, what's with cops going to question a criminal suspect and saying "Oh well, it sounds like they're busy vomiting. We'll just leave and not ever come back to follow things up"? If I'd known one could get cops to leave that way, I may have committed more crimes during my youth.

 

[RavenSky]

That's pretty gross. I think the most telling line in the article is when they're talking about the class they gave and one of the students asked how to tell the difference between "token resistance" and "real resistance" and they just laughed at the guy.

yep

Also, what's with cops going to question a criminal suspect and saying "Oh well, it sounds like they're busy vomiting. We'll just leave and not ever come back to follow things up"? If I'd known one could get cops to leave that way, I may have committed more crimes during my youth.

The police did the same thing with the second girl one of the guys was convicted of raping. 16-year-old girl on her birthday - reported the rape immediately without even leaving the area - yet police did nothing that night and they took 3 years to process her rape kit.

 

[laughing dog]

One of the confessed rapists is named Jonas Dick.

 

[RavenSky]

One of the confessed rapists is named Jonas Dick.

I know. And the eatery he picked up his second victim in was called Dick’s Last Resort

 

[Elixir]

Still waiting for one of the local misogynists to explain why it was those girls' fault for hanging out at such clubs around closing time...

 

[credoconsolans]

Not surprising at all.

When in college, a friend got wasted and passed out in the woman's bathroom. She was carted off by EMTs, but we didn't know that. All we knew is that she disappeared. We spent the rest of the evening looking for her. We were still there after the clubs closed and people were out on the street, yes, the men who approached us were very aggressive, offering rides and to accompany them to a late night bar and whatnot, until they realized we were very much sober and then they left us alone.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Any self respecting pick up artist I'd imagine would disdain the low hanging fruit of closing time.

Depressing that inviting a drunk woman into your apartment and then assaulting her qualifies as pick up art. I don't need any DVDs for that…

Even more depressing the PUAs apparently enjoyed it.

I'll confess that in the days my youth, relying on shall we say insistence only ever worked against me. In recollection if not in the moment.

OTOH, having no expectations has, on occasion, led to experiences delightful still in the recollection.

 

[TSwizzle]

Still waiting for one of the local misogynists to explain why it was those girls' fault for hanging out at such clubs around closing time...

Reckless behavior does have consequences unfortunately.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Still waiting for one of the local misogynists to explain why it was those girls' fault for hanging out at such clubs around closing time...

Reckless behavior does have consequences unfortunately.

Trust is indeed reckless.

Much better to assume everyone is always suspect.

 

[Ford]

Still waiting for one of the local misogynists to explain why it was those girls' fault for hanging out at such clubs around closing time...

I put the biggest serial misogynist on ignore awhile back. It has made my experience with this board much more enjoyable.

 

[TSwizzle]

Hardly.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Still waiting for one of the local misogynists to explain why it was those girls' fault for hanging out at such clubs around closing time...

Reckless behavior does have consequences unfortunately.

You know what has greater consequences? Rape.

 

[fast]

Reckless behavior does have consequences unfortunately.

You know what has greater consequences? Rape.

This always happens and I don't know what to make of it.

If I choose a toilet seat as a place to lay my head, it not a justification but rather an explanation for what happens next.

 

[J842P]

This sordid sorry tale simply reinforces what I have said before - most rapists are predators and repeat rapists. Every time our resident rape deniers start wringing their hands about #NotAllMen and how men shouldn't be denied their drunken fucks, I just have to wonder why they can't acknowledge predators like these three men... why they have to always assume the rape victim is lying.

I don't think any of the "rape-deniers" on the board have ever denied that serial predators exist or would disagree with the statement that most rapists are repeat rapists. Most of the contentious rape threads on this forum that I recall had to do with entirely different situations, such as the UVA case, or the Mattress Performance performance case, or other cases where there were clear ambiguities. And this isn't a case were the men had a "drunken fuck", as you put it, but rather, several men waited for a woman to be so drunk as to take advantage of her, likely having little or nothing to drink themselves. The argument the famous "rape denier" has regarding drunken sex is that there is a double standard when it comes to it: men and women frequently drink to excess and have sex, but it is the male who presumed the rapist in these cases. Now, you may think that perception is wrong, even then I think any fair-minded person would admit there is plenty of ambiguity when it comes to cases where there are two similarly-inebriated people.


Jesus.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Still waiting for one of the local misogynists to explain why it was those girls' fault for hanging out at such clubs around closing time...

Reckless behavior does have consequences unfortunately.

Most nightclubs have something a little sleazy about them and can attract some lower forms of life. However, going to one and even hanging out in one isn't in itself reckless.

 

[J842P]

Any self respecting pick up artist I'd imagine would disdain the low hanging fruit of closing time.

Depressing that inviting a drunk woman into your apartment and then assaulting her qualifies as pick up art. I don't need any DVDs for that…

Even more depressing the PUAs apparently enjoyed it.

I'll confess that in the days my youth, relying on shall we say insistence only ever worked against me. In recollection if not in the moment.

OTOH, having no expectations has, on occasion, led to experiences delightful still in the recollection.

The PUA "movement" is almost entirely composed of outright despicable people.

 

[Will Wiley]

It is a very long, detailed article; and it would have been another one of those cases Derec likes to say are "morning after regrets"... .

Are you saying Derec thinks these guys did nothing wrong?

 

[RavenSky]

It is a very long, detailed article; and it would have been another one of those cases Derec likes to say are "morning after regrets"... .

Are you saying Derec thinks these guys did nothing wrong?

I'm saying that if we didn't have the guys blog bragging about what they did and two of them pleading guilty, we would have been left with "he said, she said" which Derec would have dismissed as the woman lying because of 'morning after regrets'

Sent from my SM-G920T1 using Tapatalk

 

[RavenSky]

This sordid sorry tale simply reinforces what I have said before - most rapists are predators and repeat rapists. Every time our resident rape deniers start wringing their hands about #NotAllMen and how men shouldn't be denied their drunken fucks, I just have to wonder why they can't acknowledge predators like these three men... why they have to always assume the rape victim is lying.

I don't think any of the "rape-deniers" on the board have ever denied that serial predators exist or would disagree with the statement that most rapists are repeat rapists. Most of the contentious rape threads on this forum that I recall had to do with entirely different situations, such as the UVA case, or the Mattress Performance performance case, or other cases where there were clear ambiguities.

The bolded is exactly the point. Most rape cases have ambiguities. It is extremely rare for the rapists to (1) confess/brag about their rapes in a blog, or (2) plead guilty to the crimes. So we end up with rape-deniers insisting the victims engaged in regretted drunken hook-ups. Never once in the past have the resident rape-deniers ever acknowledged how predators use our 'drunken hook-up culture' as a means to be serial rapists. To the contrary, I was (in a couple of threads a couple of years ago) verbally abused beyond measure by several members here for suggesting that addressing 'drunken hook-up culture' is the way to combat these serial rapists.

And this isn't a case were the men had a "drunken fuck", as you put it, but rather, several men waited for a woman to be so drunk as to take advantage of her, likely having little or nothing to drink themselves. The argument the famous "rape denier" has regarding drunken sex is that there is a double standard when it comes to it: men and women frequently drink to excess and have sex, but it is the male who presumed the rapist in these cases.

Wrong. That is the terms that resident rape-deniers and others try to present it in, but it is not the reality. The reality is that thousands of people get drunk and fuck on any given weekend with no one reporting a rape because both people know the sex was consensual. But when a woman does report a rape, it is immediately assumed by rape-deniers that the woman is lying. Then when I and others point out that serial rapists operate exactly as the men in the OP did, we get shouted down with #NotAllMen and utterly ridiculous snark about how "I must have raped my wife last night, but she liked it hehehe" and "but she was drunk tooooooo!!!!! she must be a rapist" - all of which is absolute denial of the point that the serial rapists typically victimize dozens or more women before one reports it... and then she is typically not believed.

Did you read to the bottom of the OP article? Did you read how the apartment manager set up a camera in the hall outside of the rapists' apartment and recorded dozens of women that were more than likely raped exactly as Claire was, but who have not been identified because they have never reported it. THAT is the reality, but every time this reality is brought up, those who don't want to address the actual situation choose instead to shout us down with the nonsense strawman of "there is a double standard when it comes to it: men and women frequently drink to excess and have sex, but it is the male who presumed the rapist in these cases." In doing so, you are basically supporting Derec's contention that women who report rape are liars.