Hawaii May Become First State in US To Decriminalize ALL Drugs

[ZiprHead]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/03/hawaii-may-become-first-state-us-decriminalize/

Sounds good, but will it really happen?

 

[ApostateAbe]

They haven't even legalized weed yet. Try to be discriminatory with your news. I have Countercurrents on my Chrome Blocksite for a reason.

 

[Valjean]

How would this not be a public health disaster?

 

[ZiprHead]

How would this not be a public health disaster?

Whenever we debate similar measures in the U.S. -- marijuana decriminalization, for instance -- many drug-policy makers predict dire consequences. “If you make any attractive commodity available at lower cost, you will have more users," former Office of National Drug Control Policy deputy director Thomas McLellan once said of Portugal's policies. Joseph Califano, founder of the Center for Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University, once warned that decriminalization would "increase illegal drug availability and use among our children."

But in Portugal, the numbers paint a different story. The prevalence of past-year and past-month drug use among young adults has fallen since 2001, according to statistics compiled by the Transform Drug Policy Foundation, which advocates on behalf of ending the war on drugs. Overall adult use is down slightly too. And new HIV cases among drug users are way down.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/05/why-hardly-anyone-dies-from-a-drug-overdose-in-portugal/

 

[Derec]

Talk about priorities. They want to decriminalize all drugs, but can't even manage to approve a very important telescope project, the Thirty Meter Telescope.

Controversial Thirty Meter Telescope project could be moved to the Canary Islands

And all that because a small minority of idiots has been protesting and blocking access. Kind of like the pipelines on the mainland - in fact, both are opposed by the same ignorant people.

 

[James Brown]

“If you make any attractive commodity available at lower cost, you will have more users," former Office of National Drug Control Policy deputy director Thomas McLellan once said of Portugal's policies.

Like aspirin?

Joseph Califano, founder of the Center for Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University, once warned that decriminalization would "increase illegal drug availability"

If the drugs are decriminalized, then they won't be illegal.

 

[Elixir]

How would this not be a public health disaster?

After an initial darwinian purge of the unfit, it would be a public health blessing. IMHO of course.

 

[JonA]

Talk about priorities. They want to decriminalize all drugs, but can't even manage to approve a very important telescope project, the Thirty Meter Telescope.

Controversial Thirty Meter Telescope project could be moved to the Canary Islands

And all that because a small minority of idiots has been protesting and blocking access. Kind of like the pipelines on the mainland - in fact, both are opposed by the same ignorant people.

The US landed men on the moon. And now, thanks to the politics and sympathies of the Pathetic Regressive Left and their 'academic' operatives, we can't even manage to put up a telescope.

Just pathetic.

 

[SimpleDon]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/03/hawaii-may-become-first-state-us-decriminalize/

Sounds good, but will it really happen?

It doesn't sound good to me. There is a reason that addictive, recreational drugs are illegal. They hurt people.

 

[Elixir]

The US landed men on the moon.

...under a Democratic administration.

And now, thanks to the politics and sympathies of the Pathetic Regressive Left

Is that the alt-right's new name for the GOP?

and their 'academic' operatives, we can't even manage to put up a telescope.

Yeah, it's a friggin' shame.

Just pathetic.

Indeed. Next, the alt-white retards will be blaming Obama for not addressing climate change.

 

[SimpleDon]

Talk about priorities. They want to decriminalize all drugs, but can't even manage to approve a very important telescope project, the Thirty Meter Telescope.

Controversial Thirty Meter Telescope project could be moved to the Canary Islands

And all that because a small minority of idiots has been protesting and blocking access. Kind of like the pipelines on the mainland - in fact, both are opposed by the same ignorant people.

The US landed men on the moon. And now, thanks to the politics and sympathies of the Pathetic Regressive Left and their 'academic' operatives, we can't even manage to put up a telescope.

Just pathetic.

Yes, the left wants to bow down to every culture on earth. And the right doesn't want to fund science because it threatens their fantasies and the money is needed to reduce taxes on the rich. Both are pathetic.

 

[Jarhyn]

I think there's something in drug use that many fail to recognize because of the way society paints it. Namely, we as a social species consume drugs socially. Everything from sex, to alcohol to cigarettes. If it isn't done socially, I know for a fact that the act generally incurs guilt and self-loathing. If it is done irresponsibly in that group, it ALSO incurs guilt and self-loathing.

In this way, drug use mediates itself. We have a bunch of fuck-ups who seem to think that drug use is loathsome because the only experience or understanding they have of it is a kind that we are biologically wired to dislike and disdain in ourselves and others.

There won't be a health crisis from legalizing drugs. It may even resolve the health crisis that has been simmering since prohibition started, because drug use in humans doesn't work the way people in America seem to think it does.

The one exception to this seems to be 'utility drugs' and opiates. The first class being drugs you take in order to utilize the effect for productivity: caffine, cocaine, amphetamine. And the other because it lets you feel good when you specifically disengage from society. Utility drugs, you get tolerance and dependence, and then the drug ends up sending you out of balance. I've been trying to quit caffine for months now, and it's ROUGH. I can't imagine how much worse more powerful stimulants would be, but thankfully I don't use stimulants except in SHORT bursts. Maybe a day or two and then stop.

 

[Elixir]

I think there's something in drug use that many fail to recognize because of the way society paints it. Namely, we as a social species consume drugs socially. Everything from sex, to alcohol to cigarettes. If it isn't done socially, I know for a fact that the act generally incurs guilt and self-loathing. If it is done irresponsibly in that group, it ALSO incurs guilt and self-loathing.

In this way, drug use mediates itself. We have a bunch of fuck-ups who seem to think that drug use is loathsome because the only experience or understanding they have of it is a kind that we are biologically wired to dislike and disdain in ourselves and others.

There won't be a health crisis from legalizing drugs. It may even resolve the health crisis that has been simmering since prohibition started, because drug use in humans doesn't work the way people in America seem to think it does.

The one exception to this seems to be 'utility drugs' and opiates. The first class being drugs you take in order to utilize the effect for productivity: caffine, cocaine, amphetamine. And the other because it lets you feel good when you specifically disengage from society. Utility drugs, you get tolerance and dependence, and then the drug ends up sending you out of balance. I've been trying to quit caffine for months now, and it's ROUGH. I can't imagine how much worse more powerful stimulants would be, but thankfully I don't use stimulants except in SHORT bursts. Maybe a day or two and then stop.

I think that even the use of those "utility drugs" would drop, after an initial surge in their use. Your own awareness about how hooked you are on caffeine is testimony to that effect.

 

[JonA]

...under a Democratic administration.

And now, thanks to the politics and sympathies of the Pathetic Regressive Left

Is that the alt-right's new name for the GOP?

and their 'academic' operatives, we can't even manage to put up a telescope.

Yeah, it's a friggin' shame.

Just pathetic.

Indeed. Next, the alt-white retards will be blaming Obama for not addressing climate change.

 

[ZiprHead]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/03/hawaii-may-become-first-state-us-decriminalize/

Sounds good, but will it really happen?

It doesn't sound good to me. There is a reason that addictive, recreational drugs are illegal. They hurt people.

People are usually hurt more by being caught in the legal system than they are by the drugs.

 

[Elixir]

It doesn't sound good to me. There is a reason that addictive, recreational drugs are illegal. They hurt people.

People are usually hurt more by being caught in the legal system than they are by the drugs.

X10
That's exactly correct. And worse, that's only speaking about the drug user, and doesn't even touch on the cost to society of enforcement, prosecution and incarceration of those victimless crimes.

 

[bilby]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/03/hawaii-may-become-first-state-us-decriminalize/

Sounds good, but will it really happen?

It doesn't sound good to me. There is a reason that addictive, recreational drugs are illegal. They hurt people.

By that argument, alcohol should be made illegal. Addictive, recreational, harmful. Ticks all the boxes.

Fortunately we have an actual instance of the prohibition of alcohol we can look at, to get actual evidence of the effect of doing that, so that we don't have to rely on hypotheticals.

We find, counterintuitively, that hat prohibition leads to increased, not decreased use; The proliferation of unsafe and contaminated sources of the substance; a rise in organised crime; loss of tax revenue; and no benefits to the public whatsoever.

When a hypothesis is contradicted by experimental evidence, it should be discarded.

Prohibition doesn't lower the harm from addictive recreational substances - it does the opposite.

While action to lower that harm is certainly justified, prohibition is clearly not an example of the kind of action that achieves the harm reduction objective; and decriminalisation is an example of such an action.

 

[Valjean]

How would this not be a public health disaster?

After an initial darwinian purge of the unfit, it would be a public health blessing. IMHO of course.

Whenever we debate similar measures in the U.S. -- marijuana decriminalization, for instance -- many drug-policy makers predict dire consequences. “If you make any attractive commodity available at lower cost, you will have more users," former Office of National Drug Control Policy deputy director Thomas McLellan once said of Portugal's policies. Joseph Califano, founder of the Center for Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University, once warned that decriminalization would "increase illegal drug availability and use among our children."

But in Portugal, the numbers paint a different story. The prevalence of past-year and past-month drug use among young adults has fallen since 2001, according to statistics compiled by the Transform Drug Policy Foundation, which advocates on behalf of ending the war on drugs. Overall adult use is down slightly too. And new HIV cases among drug users are way down.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/05/why-hardly-anyone-dies-from-a-drug-overdose-in-portugal/

I'm not talking about recreational drugs. Decriminalization of recreational drugs would reduce crime, reduce harm and reduce usage. I'm talking about drugs like antibiotics.
Overuse of antibiotics has already produces an epidemic of drug resistant bacteria. Deregulation would effectively end the public health revolution they produced and set medicine -- and lifespans -- back 80 years.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/aug/12/the-end-of-antibiotics-health-infections

 

[Jarhyn]

After an initial darwinian purge of the unfit, it would be a public health blessing. IMHO of course.

Whenever we debate similar measures in the U.S. -- marijuana decriminalization, for instance -- many drug-policy makers predict dire consequences. “If you make any attractive commodity available at lower cost, you will have more users," former Office of National Drug Control Policy deputy director Thomas McLellan once said of Portugal's policies. Joseph Califano, founder of the Center for Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University, once warned that decriminalization would "increase illegal drug availability and use among our children."

But in Portugal, the numbers paint a different story. The prevalence of past-year and past-month drug use among young adults has fallen since 2001, according to statistics compiled by the Transform Drug Policy Foundation, which advocates on behalf of ending the war on drugs. Overall adult use is down slightly too. And new HIV cases among drug users are way down.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/05/why-hardly-anyone-dies-from-a-drug-overdose-in-portugal/

I'm not talking about recreational drugs. Decriminalization of recreational drugs would reduce crime, reduce harm and reduce usage. I'm talking about drugs like antibiotics.
Overuse of antibiotics has already produces an epidemic of drug resistant bacteria. Deregulation would effectively end the public health revolution they produced and set medicine -- and lifespans -- back 80 years.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/aug/12/the-end-of-antibiotics-health-infections

In this I definitely agree. I would class antibiotics as utility drugs, and people using utility drugs when they don't need them is a common problem with such drugs. Thus non-recreational drugs ought see more restrictions, perhaps all restrictions, as compared to social/recreational drugs.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm not talking about recreational drugs. Decriminalization of recreational drugs would reduce crime, reduce harm and reduce usage. I'm talking about drugs like antibiotics.
Overuse of antibiotics has already produces an epidemic of drug resistant bacteria. Deregulation would effectively end the public health revolution they produced and set medicine -- and lifespans -- back 80 years.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/aug/12/the-end-of-antibiotics-health-infections

While I agree that the overuse of antibiotics is a problem, antibiotics was not the subject. It was recreational drugs. That's what the rest of us were discussing.