University of Minnesota Sexual Assault Case

[Nice Squirrel]

http://www.startribune.com/sex-assa...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

A student's claim last September that she was sexually assaulted prompted the University of Minnesota to suspend 10 Gophers football players from the team, weeks after a criminal probe resulted in no charges.

Her accusations, documented through police reports and court testimony, ultimately led to a U committee's investigation and Tuesday's decision, more than three months after the Sept. 2 incident.

Now I have to run, but the crux is that the police and prosecutors need to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the University (under the OCR Title IX Dear Colleague Letter of 2011 - and supreme court yadda yadda...) must use the lower bar “preponderance of the evidence.”

I'll let you folks discuss the case.

 

[Derec]

Yet another false accusation and of course the university is taking her side of the story even though there is no evidence she was raped vs. having consensual sex she regretted later.

"Preponderance of evidence" is too low a standard in these cases. Hopefully the Trunp administration will reverse this monumental mistake by the Obama administration, which mandated the lowest possible standard (rather than "clear and convincing proof" most universities used hitherto and continue to use for non-sexual misconduct cases) must be used.

 

[KeepTalking]

http://www.startribune.com/sex-assa...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

A student's claim last September that she was sexually assaulted prompted the University of Minnesota to suspend 10 Gophers football players from the team, weeks after a criminal probe resulted in no charges.

Her accusations, documented through police reports and court testimony, ultimately led to a U committee's investigation and Tuesday's decision, more than three months after the Sept. 2 incident.

Now I have to run, but the crux is that the police and prosecutors need to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the University (under the OCR Title IX Dear Colleague Letter of 2011 - and supreme court yadda yadda...) must use the lower bar “preponderance of the evidence.”

I'll let you folks discuss the case.

This story brings to light a very serious issue, and that is that the University of Minnesota has an extremely stupid name for their football team. It would be a great name for their Golf team, however.

 

[Elixir]

Yet another false accusation

So... you were there, eh? Did she tell you it was okay?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Yet another false accusation and of course the university is taking her side of the story even though there is no evidence she was raped vs. having consensual sex she regretted later.

"Preponderance of evidence" is too low a standard in these cases. Hopefully the Trunp administration will reverse this monumental mistake by the Obama administration, which mandated the lowest possible standard (rather than "clear and convincing proof" most universities used hitherto and continue to use for non-sexual misconduct cases) must be used.

Currently all pending legislation gives no standard and only removes the requirement for one. I suspect for star athletes the bar can be raised back to "not allowed to question until after player loses their eligibility" if one these bills pass.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

http://www.startribune.com/sex-assa...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/



Now I have to run, but the crux is that the police and prosecutors need to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the University (under the OCR Title IX Dear Colleague Letter of 2011 - and supreme court yadda yadda...) must use the lower bar “preponderance of the evidence.”

I'll let you folks discuss the case.

This story brings to light a very serious issue, and that is that the University of Minnesota has an extremely stupid name for their football team. It would be a great name for their Golf team, however.

Eh? It comes from a pretty stupid cartoon:

 

[Elixir]

Yet another false accusation

So... you were there, eh? Did she tell you it was okay?

How about Brock Turner? Innocent too?

 

[dismal]

Yet another false accusation

So... you were there, eh? Did she tell you it was okay?

Yeah, it's just another one of those she said/ten-guys-with-supporting-video-tape said situations.

How can we ever know who to believe.

 

[KeepTalking]

This story brings to light a very serious issue, and that is that the University of Minnesota has an extremely stupid name for their football team. It would be a great name for their Golf team, however.

Eh? It comes from a pretty stupid cartoon:

In that case, I am upgrading my rhetoric to "monumentally stupid".

 

[KeepTalking]

So... you were there, eh? Did she tell you it was okay?

Yeah, it's just another one of those she said/ten-guys-with-supporting-video-tape said situations.

How can we ever know who to believe.

Perhaps they were not suspended for sexual assault, but for breaking other school or team rules revealed by the video of the incident. These may include, but are not limited to, underage drinking, drug use, or video taping themselves performing a sex act.

 

[dismal]

Yeah, it's just another one of those she said/ten-guys-with-supporting-video-tape said situations.

How can we ever know who to believe.

Perhaps they were not suspended for sexual assault, but for breaking other school or team rules revealed by the video of the incident. These may include, but are not limited to, underage drinking, drug use, or video taping themselves performing a sex act.

Maybe, but that would seem to render this part of the story fake news:

A student’s claim last September that she was sexually assaulted prompted the University of Minnesota to suspend 10 Gophers football players from the team, weeks after a criminal probe resulted in no charges.

 

[Jarhyn]

Perhaps they were not suspended for sexual assault, but for breaking other school or team rules revealed by the video of the incident. These may include, but are not limited to, underage drinking, drug use, or video taping themselves performing a sex act.

Maybe, but that would seem to render this part of the story fake news:

A student’s claim last September that she was sexually assaulted prompted the University of Minnesota to suspend 10 Gophers football players from the team, weeks after a criminal probe resulted in no charges.

Not really. If the claim is what brought to light the underage drinking, drugs, and pornography, it prompted the removal of them regardless of whether the claim was the deciding factor. It was the prompt for an investigation that led to the removal. It prompted the removal. Prompt prompt. Prompt.

 

[dismal]

Maybe, but that would seem to render this part of the story fake news:

A student’s claim last September that she was sexually assaulted prompted the University of Minnesota to suspend 10 Gophers football players from the team, weeks after a criminal probe resulted in no charges.

Not really. If the claim is what brought to light the underage drinking, drugs, and pornography, it prompted the removal of them regardless of whether the claim was the deciding factor. It was the prompt for an investigation that led to the removal. It prompted the removal. Prompt prompt. Prompt.

Yes, but using this to describe a suspension for underage drinking is a bit like a headline saying Abraham Lincoln died because of his love of theater.

 

[Derec]

Perhaps they were not suspended for sexual assault, but for breaking other school or team rules revealed by the video of the incident. These may include, but are not limited to, underage drinking, drug use, or video taping themselves performing a sex act.

Dismal has already shown that that is not so, but if it was, it highlights more female privilege. Did you know that if a female student alleges rape (even if falsely) she is immune from any punishment due to any other violations of the college rules such as underage drinking or drug use. It gives female students more incentive to cry rape.

 

[laughing dog]

[
Dismal has already shown that that is not so

No, he has not.

, but if it was, it highlights more female privilege. Did you know that if a female student alleges rape (even if falsely) she is immune from any punishment due to any other violations of the college rules such as underage drinking or drug use.

You know this for a fact - that at every institution has the same rules. Then prove it.

It gives female students more incentive to cry rape.

Do you have to drink to make this stuff up?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.startribune.com/sex-assa...ension-of-gophers-football-players/406564806/

A student's claim last September that she was sexually assaulted prompted the University of Minnesota to suspend 10 Gophers football players from the team, weeks after a criminal probe resulted in no charges.

Her accusations, documented through police reports and court testimony, ultimately led to a U committee's investigation and Tuesday's decision, more than three months after the Sept. 2 incident.

Now I have to run, but the crux is that the police and prosecutors need to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the University (under the OCR Title IX Dear Colleague Letter of 2011 - and supreme court yadda yadda...) must use the lower bar “preponderance of the evidence.”

I'll let you folks discuss the case.

The police decided not to charge them. That should be the end of it.

 

[laughing dog]

The police decided not to charge them. That should be the end of it.

Why? Do the police decide whether or not football players violated team rules?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The police decided not to charge them. That should be the end of it.

Why? Do the police decide whether or not football players violated team rules?

If the rule in question is "Don't rape people", then yes, they do decide that.

If the rule in question is "Wash your jock strap after each practice", then that's probably not a police matter.

 

[Jarhyn]

Why? Do the police decide whether or not football players violated team rules?

If the rule in question is "Don't rape people", then yes, they do decide that.

If the rule in question is "Wash your jock strap after each practice", then that's probably not a police matter.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that one of their rules is 'don't do shit that makes the team and school look bad' or some variant on that theme. And being caught, on film, at a party with drug use, underage drinking, and HIGHLY questionable sex acts, qualifies. Because the definition of "what is ethically considered a 'rape'?" has frayed and arbitrary edges, and because this is a private institution, they have a right to have a different definition of what precisely qualifies it as one. And perhaps, for them, the questionable sex act caught on film qualifies as one, whereas in the eyes of the government it is not. It is not unlike a church excommunicating a member for some grave sin that does not otherwise exist in the eyes of the law. The church still has that right.

Now, there is some question of whether a state university may have different formal definitions of rape than the state itself; but because universities are generally afforded the power to set tighter standards of behavior in other regulations, they probably should get that right here, too.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Perhaps they were not suspended for sexual assault, but for breaking other school or team rules revealed by the video of the incident. These may include, but are not limited to, underage drinking, drug use, or video taping themselves performing a sex act.

Dismal has already shown that that is not so, but if it was, it highlights more female privilege. Did you know that if a female student alleges rape (even if falsely) she is immune from any punishment due to any other violations of the college rules such as underage drinking or drug use. It gives female students more incentive to cry rape.

That varies from from college to college. Brigham Young only decided twop weeks ago to stop punishing students coming forward with sexual assault violations who were assaulted while violating conduct codes against drinking, dancing, etc. (Yes there are schools that prohibit dancing and being alone with the opposite sex.)