Terrorist Attack on Australian Christian Lobby office in Canberra

[bilby]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/canberra-car-bomb-van-carrying-9496304

According to ACL managing director Lyle Shelton, the offices were 'rammed' by a white van, which then exploded.

Of course, this is clearly the work of Islamist Terrorists, and a clear indication of the failure of Australia's border security forces to protect Christian organizations from attack.

...or is it?

The van doesn't appear to have 'rammed' anything; It was driven into the carpark, and then some time later, gas that was leaking from one (or more) of the gas bottles that were in the van has exploded. One man was injured (the driver of the van) - and he then walked the 4km to hospital, with severe burns. He is said to be in a critical condition, but has spoken to police, who say that "their brief questioning of the man revealed his actions 'were not politically, religiously or ideologically motivated'."

Of course, this hasn't stopped the Mr Shelton from playing the martyrdom card (https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/33632028/australian-christian-lobby-office-hit-with-car-bomb-in-canberra-lyle-shelton/#page1); Nor has the police statement come soon enough to prevent international news media from reporting this as an act of terrorism.

The ABC has updated their story with the new information from police, and it seems that claims of an 'attack' on the ACL are greatly exaggerated.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-22/australian-christian-lobby-headquarters-rammed-by-burning-van/8140804

The building was reportedly 'rammed' by a 'car bomb'; But it doesn't appear that any ramming or any bombing was actually involved - this would appear to be an accidental explosion that coincidentally occurred at the ACL building.

 

[Deepak]

Yeah, this looks like a leaky tank that went off from some ignition source causing the driver to lose control.

"His actions were not politically, religiously or ideologically motivated," a spokesman for the Australian Federal Police said in Canberra.

No arrests have been made yet and the driver remains in a critical condition.

...

"There is no doubt in my mind that ACL was the target." [said Shelton]

"Obviously we don't know the motives of the person who drove this van, but we have received a number of death threats and threats of violence over the course of this year that we have reported to police."

But we'll speculate wildly in the absence of knowing that.

What surprises me is that he walked 4km without getting help from someone - is the Canberra nightlife really that snoozy?

 

[Keith&Co.]

"There is no doubt in my mind that ACL was the target." [said Shelton]

Well, sure. If lethal damage can come that close to you as an arbitrary act, you might wonder why God would allow such coincidental destruction.
But to think God saved you from destruction not only makes you important, it validates your crap.

 

[Elixir]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/canberra-car-bomb-van-carrying-9496304

According to ACL managing director Lyle Shelton, the offices were 'rammed' by a white van, which then exploded.

Of course, this is clearly the work of Islamist Terrorists, and a clear indication of the failure of Australia's border security forces to protect Christian organizations from attack.

...or is it?

The van doesn't appear to have 'rammed' anything; It was driven into the carpark, and then some time later, gas that was leaking from one (or more) of the gas bottles that were in the van has exploded. One man was injured (the driver of the van) - and he then walked the 4km to hospital, with severe burns. He is said to be in a critical condition, but has spoken to police, who say that "their brief questioning of the man revealed his actions 'were not politically, religiously or ideologically motivated'."

Of course, this hasn't stopped the Mr Shelton from playing the martyrdom card (https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/33632028/australian-christian-lobby-office-hit-with-car-bomb-in-canberra-lyle-shelton/#page1); Nor has the police statement come soon enough to prevent international news media from reporting this as an act of terrorism.

The ABC has updated their story with the new information from police, and it seems that claims of an 'attack' on the ACL are greatly exaggerated.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-22/australian-christian-lobby-headquarters-rammed-by-burning-van/8140804

The building was reportedly 'rammed' by a 'car bomb'; But it doesn't appear that any ramming or any bombing was actually involved - this would appear to be an accidental explosion that coincidentally occurred at the ACL building.

Aw, let 'em chalk it up to Islamic Terrorism. It doesn't even raise the danger posed by terrorism a single notch closer to the threat posed by say, coconuts.

 

[thebeave]

Well, there's an old saying among doctors, "When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras". Meaning, the patient probably has some bad gas, rather than stomach cancer, for example. In this case, based on similar events across the world recently, he was thinking horses. But maybe this is one of those occasions when it really was zebras.

 

[KeepTalking]

Well, there's an old saying among doctors, "When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras". Meaning, the patient probably has some bad gas, rather than stomach cancer, for example. In this case, based on similar events across the world recently, he was thinking horses. But maybe this is one of those occasions when it really was zebras.

Nope, still horses. I can assure you that, despite the non-stop screeching coming from the idiots on the far right, there are far more vehicles that catch on fire due to accident than due to terrorism, Islamic or otherwise.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, there's an old saying among doctors, "When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras". Meaning, the patient probably has some bad gas, rather than stomach cancer, for example. In this case, based on similar events across the world recently, he was thinking horses. But maybe this is one of those occasions when it really was zebras.

Nope, still horses. I can assure you that, despite the non-stop screeching coming from the idiots on the far right, there are far more vehicles that catch on fire due to accident than due to terrorism, Islamic or otherwise.

How many Islamic attacks on Christian churches in the Western & and Aussie world have occurred? Terror attacks usually occur more at inter-Faith sectarian targets than Christian.

 

[KeepTalking]

Nope, still horses. I can assure you that, despite the non-stop screeching coming from the idiots on the far right, there are far more vehicles that catch on fire due to accident than due to terrorism, Islamic or otherwise.

How many Islamic attacks on Christian churches in the Western & and Aussie world have occurred? Terror attacks usually occur more at inter-Faith sectarian targets than Christian.

Good point. Nightclubs and shopping centers seem to be targeted much more often, but even then, if a vehicle catches on fire at one of those places, terrorism is less likely than accident in the Western world (including Australia). So, still horses, not zebras.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, there's an old saying among doctors, "When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras". Meaning, the patient probably has some bad gas, rather than stomach cancer, for example. In this case, based on similar events across the world recently, he was thinking horses. But maybe this is one of those occasions when it really was zebras.

Nope, still horses. I can assure you that, despite the non-stop screeching coming from the idiots on the far right, there are far more vehicles that catch on fire due to accident than due to terrorism, Islamic or otherwise.

Outside Hollywood, if a vehicle blows up one should suspect terrorism. The reality is that vehicles almost never go boom on their own. (And this one didn't, either--it was blown up by it's cargo.)

 

[KeepTalking]

Nope, still horses. I can assure you that, despite the non-stop screeching coming from the idiots on the far right, there are far more vehicles that catch on fire due to accident than due to terrorism, Islamic or otherwise.

Outside Hollywood, if a vehicle blows up one should suspect terrorism. The reality is that vehicles almost never go boom on their own. (And this one didn't, either--it was blown up by it's cargo.)

Gasoline is explosive when it receives a spark, that's why use it in internal combustion engines. I doubt this exploded in the manner of either a Hollywood movie, or a bomb, yet it is still accurate to call it an explosion. Vehicles explode in this manner quite frequently. In most cases it is not due to terrorism, but rather due to an accident.

 

[bilby]

Yeah, this looks like a leaky tank that went off from some ignition source causing the driver to lose control.

"His actions were not politically, religiously or ideologically motivated," a spokesman for the Australian Federal Police said in Canberra.

No arrests have been made yet and the driver remains in a critical condition.

...

"There is no doubt in my mind that ACL was the target." [said Shelton]

"Obviously we don't know the motives of the person who drove this van, but we have received a number of death threats and threats of violence over the course of this year that we have reported to police."

But we'll speculate wildly in the absence of knowing that.

What surprises me is that he walked 4km without getting help from someone - is the Canberra nightlife really that snoozy?

'Canberra' and 'nightlife' are words not usually used in the same sentence. I wouldn't be surprised if he made the walk without encountering any other pedestrians.

 

[bilby]

Outside Hollywood, if a vehicle blows up one should suspect terrorism. The reality is that vehicles almost never go boom on their own. (And this one didn't, either--it was blown up by it's cargo.)

Gasoline is explosive when it receives a spark, that's why use it in internal combustion engines. I doubt this exploded in the manner of either a Hollywood movie, or a bomb, yet it is still accurate to call it an explosion. Vehicles explode in this manner quite frequently. In most cases it is not due to terrorism, but rather due to an accident.

Damaged and/or incorrectly handled gas bottles are quite a common cause of explosions in Australia. We have a lot of BBQs, and a 'she'll be right' attitude towards safety.

A propane bottle with a slow leak inside a vehicle with the windows closed can easily turn the vehicle into a fairly effective bomb. Spilled gasoline that fills the vehicle with vapour can do the same. Either is possible in this case. All that is needed then is a single spark.

 

[Elixir]

Gasoline is explosive when it receives a spark, that's why use it in internal combustion engines. I doubt this exploded in the manner of either a Hollywood movie, or a bomb, yet it is still accurate to call it an explosion. Vehicles explode in this manner quite frequently. In most cases it is not due to terrorism, but rather due to an accident.

Damaged and/or incorrectly handled gas bottles are quite a common cause of explosions in Australia. We have a lot of BBQs, and a 'she'll be right' attitude towards safety.

A propane bottle with a slow leak inside a vehicle with the windows closed can easily turn the vehicle into a fairly effective bomb. Spilled gasoline that fills the vehicle with vapour can do the same. Either is possible in this case. All that is needed then is a single spark.

Like I said, then - Radical Islamic Terrorism!
</trumpsucker>

 

[dismal]

So, somewhere in Australia there may be an uninformed Christian idiot.

Shocking.

 

[bilby]

So, somewhere in Australia there may be an uninformed Christian idiot.

Shocking.

It would be of little import, if it were not for the fact that the ACL has an extraordinary level of influence in the federal parliament.

This particular uninformed Christian idiot has the ear of a sizable fraction of the front bench, and of several recent Prime Ministers (including Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd).

The ACL and their pet MHRs and Senators have been the main obstacle to the repeal of the anti-gay Marriage Amendment Act 2004 (and were that act's major sponsors), and to the introduction of the Safe Schools programme (a programme of initiatives to reduce bullying in schools that is opposed because it would protect homosexual teenagers). They were also instrumental in the establishment of the National School Chaplaincy Programme (School Chaplaincy Programme).

So not just an uninformed Christian idiot, but a dangerous uninformed Christian idiot, seeking to increase his power-base via the age-old Christian tactic of claiming to be persecuted.

 

[ronburgundy]

So, somewhere in Australia there may be an uninformed Christian idiot.

Shocking.

It would be of little import, if it were not for the fact that the ACL has an extraordinary level of influence in the federal parliament.

That cuts both ways though. It makes the ACL a plausible target for someone opposing Australian policies (such as its direct involvement in the Syrian war). Also, the fact that the driver didn't call the cops or flag down help like almost anyone else would if it were an accident makes it look more like an intentional act than an accident. Note that it doesn't seem that anything the cops have said implies it was an accident, and their statement implies they are not assuming it was. Their statement merely saying that:
"their brief questioning of the man revealed his actions 'were not politically, religiously or ideologically motivated."

That is an odd way of putting it, if they think it was a complete accident. "his actions" still implies intent, and why only rule out certain motives when the whole issue of motive is moot as it would be if it was just an accident?
Maybe it was an attempted suicide.

While cars occasionally catch fire, almost never does a van full of explosives accidentally hit a building, explode, and then the driver just leave the scene. Maybe it was an accident, but the facts that were and still are available make a deliberate act quite plausible, and the ACL's governmental influence would make political terrorism a plausible motive if the act was not an accident.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Outside Hollywood, if a vehicle blows up one should suspect terrorism. The reality is that vehicles almost never go boom on their own. (And this one didn't, either--it was blown up by it's cargo.)

Gasoline is explosive when it receives a spark, that's why use it in internal combustion engines. I doubt this exploded in the manner of either a Hollywood movie, or a bomb, yet it is still accurate to call it an explosion. Vehicles explode in this manner quite frequently. In most cases it is not due to terrorism, but rather due to an accident.

Gasoline is explosive if it receives a spark and gasoline comprises between 1.4% and 7.6% of the air. Above or below that it doesn't go off. That's why the standard Hollywood trope of a bullet in the gas tank making it blow doesn't happen.

- - - Updated - - -

Gasoline is explosive when it receives a spark, that's why use it in internal combustion engines. I doubt this exploded in the manner of either a Hollywood movie, or a bomb, yet it is still accurate to call it an explosion. Vehicles explode in this manner quite frequently. In most cases it is not due to terrorism, but rather due to an accident.

Damaged and/or incorrectly handled gas bottles are quite a common cause of explosions in Australia. We have a lot of BBQs, and a 'she'll be right' attitude towards safety.

A propane bottle with a slow leak inside a vehicle with the windows closed can easily turn the vehicle into a fairly effective bomb. Spilled gasoline that fills the vehicle with vapour can do the same. Either is possible in this case. All that is needed then is a single spark.

Spilling gasoline will generally be above the density to ignite.

 

[bilby]

Lyle Shelton is still determined to be persecuted. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australian-christian-lobby-casts-doubt-on-police-finding-on-van-explosion-20161222-gtglds.html

I particularly like this (my bold):

The group has clashed repeatedly with leading advocacy group Australian Marriage Equality. Alex Greenwich, co-chairman of AME, called the incident "shocking and saddening" and said "thoughts and prayers are with everyone at the Australian Christian Lobby".

 

[KeepTalking]

Gasoline is explosive when it receives a spark, that's why use it in internal combustion engines. I doubt this exploded in the manner of either a Hollywood movie, or a bomb, yet it is still accurate to call it an explosion. Vehicles explode in this manner quite frequently. In most cases it is not due to terrorism, but rather due to an accident.

Gasoline is explosive if it receives a spark and gasoline comprises between 1.4% and 7.6% of the air.

OK, so you agree that improperly handled gasoline meeting a spark inside a vehicle is a much more likely scenario than Islamic Terrorism.

Above or below that it doesn't go off. That's why the standard Hollywood trope of a bullet in the gas tank making it blow doesn't happen.

As far as I know, no one is claiming that this person's vehicle bust into flames due to a bullet to the gasoline tank.

 

[Derec]

Forget the gasoline bomb. We have something else:
Melbourne Christmas Day 'terror attack' foiled, say Australia police

Three other men, named as Hamza Abbas, 21, Ahmed Mohamed, 24, and Abdullah Chaarani, 26, did not enter pleas and are due to appear in court in April. Another man remains in custody.

You have three guesses as to which religion these three belong.