Fear of God - It's what makes us nicer: Study

[migrant]

Quite so Thomas ll, but Lion RC's arguing for a monotheistic god, is tantamount to a belief in Santa Claus.
A belief in Jehovah can only be based on feeling, as no acceptable evidence exists.
The truth is that we know nothing.

 

[Lion IRC]

...The truth is that we know nothing.

Speak for yourself.

And think about what you're saying. It's self-refuting.
"The truth is...."

 

[Lion IRC]

We don't know enough about the unknown to say whether it is unknowable.
- G.K. Chesterton

 

[Tom Sawyer]

We don't know enough about the unknown to say whether it is unknowable.
- G.K. Chesterton

Right, but it's still unknown. If the central premise of your position is "I know what's there", your position is wrong.

 

[Lion IRC]

The only way you can say I'm wrong is for you to know something about the SAME thing as me.
You are making a knowledge claim of your own by asserting that my claim is wrong.

 

[Lion IRC]

This is why the words atheism and theism belong in the same category.
They are both positions with respect to the existence of God(s).
Atheists arent "non stamp collectors"

 

[OLDMAN]

This is why the words atheism and theism belong in the same category.
They are both positions with respect to the existence of God(s).
Atheists arent "non stamp collectors"

The atheist position is that there is not enough evidence to support the theist position. We can leave god out of it. We could talk about fairies or elves. Do you give any respect to those who believe in fairies and elves? Do you even consider their position valid? Now you know how we feel toward your claims.

Your beliefs are just myths that have been modernized into something that is socially acceptable by people looking for comfort from the fear of death.

 

[Lion IRC]

...The atheist position is that there is not enough evidence to support the theist position. We can leave god out of it. We could talk about fairies or elves. Do you give any respect to those who believe in fairies and elves? Do you even consider their position valid?

Yes in some cases I do.

...Now you know how we feel toward your claims.

What? You think some supernatural experiences are true?
Coz that's how I feel towards them.

...Your beliefs are just myths

No they're not.

...myths that have been modernized into something that is socially acceptable by people looking for comfort from the fear of death.

OK let's make a deal.
I'll concede that (some) theists like the idea of an afterlife if you concede that some part of atheism involves the opposite. A desire to live like there's no tomorrow. No afterlife punishment.
That's what the billboards say don't they? Stop "worrying".

 

[abaddon]

...The truth is that we know nothing.

Speak for yourself.

And think about what you're saying. It's self-refuting.
"The truth is...."

It’s not self-refuting it’s just exaggerated.

The trick is knowing enough to have a sense for how little we know. You probably know just enough about medical science to know there’s a lot that you don’t know, if you're not delusional.

The only way you can say I'm wrong is for you to know something about the SAME thing as me.

If the “same thing” exists “out there” in the shared world then it’s a pretty extraordinary thing that it has a “speak for yourself” private quality to it. Why’s God so private that just some believers “know”?

This is why the words atheism and theism belong in the same category.
They are both positions with respect to the existence of God(s).
Atheists arent "non stamp collectors"

If an atheist makes any knowledge claim about God they make it on the basis of another “-ism”, like naturalism or physicalism.

“God’s exists” is a claim about nature, about which everyone knows some things. So we all in fact do know enough to know no one has a justified claim to certain knowledge regarding God, except he’s deluded.

 

[abaddon]

I'll concede that (some) theists like the idea of an afterlife if you concede that some part of atheism involves the opposite. A desire to live like there's no tomorrow. No afterlife punishment.
That's what the billboards say don't they? Stop "worrying".

View attachment 9690

No. The billboard says to enjoy your life, not "live like there's no tomorrow". There's a significant difference.

 

[DrZoidberg]

...The truth is that we know nothing.

Speak for yourself.

And think about what you're saying. It's self-refuting.
"The truth is...."

It's a humorous oxymoron. It's a saying. But he's essentially correct. You don't know what you're correct about. Anybody who isn't humble about this is full of shit. Which is all religious people. No, you don't need to be sure that God doesn't exist to be an atheist. You just need to not be convinced of any of the God theories. Atheism is the middle ground.

 

[migrant]

.... and some people don't even know that they know nothing. Another oxymoron.
I'm glad someone can recognise humour when they see it.

 

[OLDMAN]

Yes in some cases I do.

...Now you know how we feel toward your claims.

What? You think some supernatural experiences are true?
Coz that's how I feel towards them.

...Your beliefs are just myths

No they're not.

...myths that have been modernized into something that is socially acceptable by people looking for comfort from the fear of death.

OK let's make a deal.
I'll concede that (some) theists like the idea of an afterlife if you concede that some part of atheism involves the opposite. A desire to live like there's no tomorrow. No afterlife punishment.
That's what the billboards say don't they? Stop "worrying".

View attachment 9690

I have no doubt your feelings and experiences are real enough to you. But what does that get me? Someone with schizophrenia is experiencing real delusions, but that experience can't transfer into the reality of everyone around them. In other words, how to you determine reality from delusion?

Of course most theist like the idea of an afterlife, who wouldn't? They also like the idea of hell, because in hell there is justice for evil people who may have escaped justice in real life. You have to remember, atheist have searched for God and the questions of justice too. Be you can't ignore reality, everything dies, and life is not always fair.

 

[Thomas II]

Quite so Thomas ll, but Lion RC's arguing for a monotheistic god, is tantamount to a belief in Santa Claus.
A belief in Jehovah can only be based on feeling, as no acceptable evidence exists.
The truth is that we know nothing.

Give it a look if you have the chance. You'll like it!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The only way you can say I'm wrong is for you to know something about the SAME thing as me.
You are making a knowledge claim of your own by asserting that my claim is wrong.

No, we can say you're wrong because you're taking an unknown and then making a claim about what's inside that unknown. We're not making a claim about the unknown - we're simply saying we don't know. Assertations without evidence can be dismissed without argument.

 

[Lion IRC]

One day Chuang-tzu and a friend were walking along a riverbank.
"How delightfully the fishes are enjoying themselves in the water!" Chuang-tzu exclaimed.
"You are not a fish," his friend said. "How do you know whether or not the fishes are enjoying themselves?"
"You are not me," Chuang-tzu said. "How do you know that I do not know the fishes are enjoying themselves?"

 

[Tom Sawyer]

One day Chuang-tzu and a friend were walking along a riverbank.
"How delightfully the fishes are enjoying themselves in the water!" Chuang-tzu exclaimed.
"You are not a fish," his friend said. "How do you know whether or not the fishes are enjoying themselves?"
"You are not me," Chuang-tzu said. "How do you know that I do not know the fishes are enjoying themselves?"

True, to which the other guy quickly replied, "Good point. What is your basis for claiming the fish are enjoying themselves?"

Which is like this conversation. One side is saying they don't know about the unknown and the other side is implying that they do know and it's not an unknown but not providing the vasis for that assertion.

 

[Lion IRC]

One side is asserting that the other doesn't know.
And as I said, in order for you to tell me that I don't know, you would have to know for a fact that it is not possible for me to know.

What do you know for a fact about God that enables you to dispute my experience?

 

[abaddon]

One day Chuang-tzu and a friend were walking along a riverbank.
"How delightfully the fishes are enjoying themselves in the water!" Chuang-tzu exclaimed.
"You are not a fish," his friend said. "How do you know whether or not the fishes are enjoying themselves?"
"You are not me," Chuang-tzu said. "How do you know that I do not know the fishes are enjoying themselves?"

For Zhuangzi, having a head filled with beliefs is a burden. He delighted in ripping people's conventions of thought. So he's basically asking "How are you certain?" in response to anyone feeling certain about anything.

Whereas your point is the certainty of your belief. Zhuangzi would ask "How do you know?" to that too.

Do you believe that God is real, outside your mind? Or is he a subjective state of mind?

 

[RavenSky]

One side is asserting that the other doesn't know.
And as I said, in order for you to tell me that I don't know, you would have to know for a fact that it is not possible for me to know.

What do you know for a fact about God that enables you to dispute my experience?

Tom asked you to provide your basis for knowing. You are dodging again.