Millionaire tells millennials: if you want a house, stop buying avocado toast

[rousseau]

I find popular media's tendency to write shitty, click-bait articles targeted at entire generations to get clicks more demoralizing than avocado toast or my status as a millennial.

It's so goddamn formulaic, and the world falls for it every time.

 

[Playball40]

Or.....it could really suck for women!

Self discipline is the key. Instead of complaining the world isn't dedicating itself to making you happy (not that there isn't validity to having a level playing field) you've got to make your way the best you can while fighting the good fight.

People who look like they are wealthy usually aren't because they spent all their money trying to look like they're wealthy.

I'm very late Gen X'er. My sister-in-law is a millenial and based on our experiences, the world went tits up between when I got a job and when she got a job. She had to have something like 4 interviews and had to take a standardized test and finally got the job.

I had an interview. And got a job.

 

[dismal]

Or.....it could really suck for women!

I thought they were running a sale on women employees.

Same work for 72 cents on the dollar and stuff.

What greedy capitalist would ever hire a man?

 

[Playball40]

But but but......a WOMAN might leave to have a baby. And don't you know it's the WOMAN that has to take care of sick kids....absenteeism and all that shit. Blah blah blah.

Or.....it could really suck for women!

I thought they were running a sale on women employees.

Same work for 72 cents on the dollar and stuff.

What greedy capitalist would ever hire a man?

- - - Updated - - -

Why do people have such a hard on for millennials? It is so hard to admit it really is HARDER for them today than it was for us at that age? Sheesh.

 

[BH]

The system sucks and is failing for most of the population, so the people who had connections, cheated to get theirs, or were lucky they "succeeded" have to have some way to blame those who were not as successful. You can't admit something may be wrong with the game itself, see. They are not going to say they relied on their connections, cheated or just got lucky because that would be admitting the system is unfair. And if they were to tell those not as prosperous it isn't their fault, just the way it is sometimes, that would just make people mad too because if it isn't their fault then they should have what the better off have and it is an injustice to deny them.

 

[BH]

I have read that the rich say the poor are still poor and middle class not rich but middle class because they "waste" money. They eat out a lot, buy a more expensive car than they really have to have, buy name brand clothes instead of respectable looking generic brand name for half the price.

It would be funny if the poor and middle class gave the rich the finger and actaully followed through on the "advice". Nobody ate out any more, no one bought the more fancier clothes. We bought the cheaper cars new or bought used cars. It would wreck a lot of businesses and a lot of jobs. And they would quit making so many of the bigger cars and more of the smaller ones and just jack the price up because of the new found demand. And if we stayed at home and cooked more prices of groceries would just go up because of the now greater demand. Ultimately it would not matter to a large degree.

The economy can only allow so many to be well off, so many to be in the middle, and most poor. It just can't be any other way.

 

[lpetrich]

Yet another member of the salty-beer club, as I call it. Complete with whining about how long and hard he worked earlier in his career. He could easily have worked less or found some more pleasant job. It's like he's whipped himself so that he can whine about how much it hurts.

Also, what he complains about seems like the stereotype that welfare recipients lead lives of luxury.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The system sucks and is failing for most of the population, so the people who had connections, cheated to get theirs, or were lucky they "succeeded" have to have some way to blame those who were not as successful. You can't admit something may be wrong with the game itself, see. They are not going to say they relied on their connections, cheated or just got lucky because that would be admitting the system is unfair. And if they were to tell those not as prosperous it isn't their fault, just the way it is sometimes, that would just make people mad too because if it isn't their fault then they should have what the better off have and it is an injustice to deny them.

It's not as sinister as all that.

It's just survivor's bias. You can play the lottery for twenty years and spend fifty thousand dollars on lottery tickets, but your singular success doesn't provide evidence that it is actually a successful strategy on the whole. A strategy that works for exactly 5% of the people who try it seems like a perfectly valid strategy for the 5% who saw success. Everyone else, on the other hand, looks at that same strategy and thinks "I must be doing something wrong, it worked just fine for those guys over there."

 

[bilby]

I agree, wasting money on fancy food isn't a good management of money. I don't spend money on wasteful food, and I'm still not a millionaire though. And I can't afford a BMW or even a knock off BWM. Did that millionaire have any other advice? Should my family stop eating? That'd save enough to get the BMW.

He's not giving advice on how to become a millionaire, he's giving advice on how to buy a house.

Becoming a millionaire generally is going to require making a crapton of money at some point, but buying a house on a modest income is in some part a matter of having the discipline to save up a down payment.

If you are planning to buy a house in Sydney, then you need to become a millionaire; A modest income is not going to cut it.

You won't get much Sydney real estate for less than $1,000,000.

My tiny two-bed flat in the Sydney suburb of Manly sold six years ago for $950,000; Attempting to swing a cat in there would have resulted in a swift visit from the RSPCA.

The cheapest priced listing for Sydney and surrounding suburbs on realestate.com.au today for a house is a $1.15 million 3 bed terrace in Surry Hills; Most Sydney houses are sold at auction, so finding list prices can be difficult, but you are out of luck if you don't have a million to spend. Of which you need 20% as a deposit in order to get a home loan - or the income to support paying a ruinous interest rate plus mortgage insurance.

 

[bilby]

The system sucks and is failing for most of the population, so the people who had connections, cheated to get theirs, or were lucky they "succeeded" have to have some way to blame those who were not as successful. You can't admit something may be wrong with the game itself, see. They are not going to say they relied on their connections, cheated or just got lucky because that would be admitting the system is unfair. And if they were to tell those not as prosperous it isn't their fault, just the way it is sometimes, that would just make people mad too because if it isn't their fault then they should have what the better off have and it is an injustice to deny them.

It's not as sinister as all that.

It's just survivor's bias. You can play the lottery for twenty years and spend fifty thousand dollars on lottery tickets, but your singular success doesn't provide evidence that it is actually a successful strategy on the whole. A strategy that works for exactly 5% of the people who try it seems like a perfectly valid strategy for the 5% who saw success. Everyone else, on the other hand, looks at that same strategy and thinks "I must be doing something wrong, it worked just fine for those guys over there."

Obligatory XKCD:



https://xkcd.com/1827/

 

[bilby]

He's not giving advice on how to become a millionaire, he's giving advice on how to buy a house.

Becoming a millionaire generally is going to require making a crapton of money at some point, but buying a house on a modest income is in some part a matter of having the discipline to save up a down payment.

If you are planning to buy a house in Sydney, then you need to become a millionaire; A modest income is not going to cut it.

You won't get much Sydney real estate for less than $1,000,000.

My tiny two-bed flat in the Sydney suburb of Manly sold six years ago for $950,000; Attempting to swing a cat in there would have resulted in a swift visit from the RSPCA.

The cheapest priced listing for Sydney and surrounding suburbs on realestate.com.au today for a house is a $1.15 million 3 bed terrace in Surry Hills; Most Sydney houses are sold at auction, so finding list prices can be difficult, but you are out of luck if you don't have a million to spend. Of which you need 20% as a deposit in order to get a home loan - or the income to support paying a ruinous interest rate plus mortgage insurance.

ETA - The problem in Sydney is a combination of factors that all push real estate prices up beyond the means of ordinary Australian workers.

Sydney is bounded by the ocean on one side, and practically impenetrable mountains to the North and South, with a fairly narrow gap at Paramatta to the west and out towards the Blue Mountains. This means that there is a very limited total usable land area within reasonable commuting distance of the city.

The natural limitations on the amount of land are exacerbated by several artificial factors - the practically guaranteed return on investment from owning real estate in Sydney, where both rents and land prices have almost always risen rapidly, means that those who do own property there are rarely keen to sell; This situation is made worse by generous tax breaks for landlords, originally introduced in an attempt to ensure a good supply of rental properties, but now 'locked in' by the fact that so many moderately wealthy Australians depend upon them for their retirement plans.

Add to that high interest rates (by international standards), the lack of any correction after recent inflationary bubbles (Australia has not seen a recession since the 1990s, and house prices in Sydney have not declined at any time in the last 20 years), and the fact that Sydney is by far the most popular destination for incoming international and interstate migrants to New South Wales, and prices are bound to become crazy - and they have.

Giving advice on how to buy a house in Sydney is different from giving advice on how to become a millionaire - because being a millionaire probably isn't enough to afford a Sydney house.

You need $200,000 plus repayments of about $6,000/month for 25 years to buy the cheapest of houses in Sydney. So an after tax income of $72,000 per annum is only enough to pay the mortgage - if you want to eat, wear clothes, and travel to and from work, you will need a pre-tax income in the order of $150,000 per annum, plus savings of $200,000 - and that's to live at a pretty penurous standard; There won't be any fancy meals or holidays - and you certainly can't afford to have any children.

Of course, you can pay a lot less for a house if you don't mind living a long way out; The cheapest houses in the Greater Sydney area are in the order of $400,000 in places like Emu Plains - but that's a 2 hour commute in each direction to the city (on a good day - and there are few good days in Sydney traffic or on the CityRail network). And you still need to be earning about twice the median Australian personal income to afford to buy a house there.

 

[Underseer]

How many slices of avocado toast would you have to give up on order to purchase a home? Did he even bother to do the math?

 

[bilby]

How many slices of avocado toast would you have to give up on order to purchase a home? Did he even bother to do the math?

It's an infinite number - Sydney Real Estate prices increase at a rate faster than the price of one smashed Avo on toast per day. You can't catch up (unless you are in the habit of eating a LOT of smashed Avo). In the more desirable suburbs, the median capital gain on real estate is equivalent to dozens of servings of avo on toast per day.

Real estate prices in Sydney can easily increase at 10% pa; and very rarely at as little as 5%. But let's be generous, and say it's 5% on average per annum, and that you are looking at buying out at Emu Plains, so you 'only' need $80,000 for your deposit (down payment).

The increase in the payment required is $4,000 per annum; That's an $11 Avo on toast every single day - just to not be going backwards. If you spend $29 a day on Avo on toast, then you should have enough for the deposit in about 20 years. As long as you don't mind living at Emu Plains - which is really not Sydney at all.

 

[bilby]

 

[lpetrich]

"I will work harder", said Boxer the Horse of Animal Farm. But look what happened to him.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

 

[DrZoidberg]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...ire-millennials-avocado-toast-house?CMP=fb_us

An Australian millionaire and real estate mogul has advice for millennials struggling to purchase a home: stop buying avocado toast.

Tim Gurner, a luxury property developer in Melbourne responsible for over $3.8bn in projects, is facing heat for comments he made on 60 Minutes in Australia, implying that young people can’t afford to buy property because they’re wasting money on fancy toast and overpriced coffee.

Here's a better idea. Millennials, if you want a house, vote in a legislature that will institute living wage and worker protection laws, a tax code that restricts the hording of wealth while providing for the common good, and will not be afraid of nationalizing industries that, for whatever reason, become "too big to fail."
Edit

I think there's a point to what he is saying. It might be clearer if phrased slightly different. Today the wheels of capitalism are spinning extremely fast. It's easier than ever to make money. With very little effort. It's also easier than ever to blow cash on stuff. In the modern world the working class are compared to the olden days, extremely wealthy today. Back in the day being working class meant that there wasn't much you could buy. So you didn't. They were also constantly one step away from the gutter. Today, that's only a potential problem if you're mentally ill.

The problem with our modern working class is that the working class culture from yea olden days, has just drifted into the modern age. It is still primarily focused on consumption. But the way the market works is that assets are partly limitted on how rich other people are. If everybody is rich today (compared to yea olden days) means that the working class has to start behaving like the yea olden days middle-class if they want access to properties yea olden days workers could afford. But not modern working class.

Today the working class can afford the trappings that used to be associated with the extreme elites of society. So that's what they do. I mean, who the fuck really needs a designer bag? Go into any working class neighbourhood and it's overflowing with designer bags.

Since the 90'ies high status is associated with being able to blow unnecessary cash on "environmentally friendly" foods. That's the "Air Jordans" or "gold watch" of today. If you thought buying eco friendly locally grown produce was about saving the environment you are a capitalist tool. That's where the avocado comes in. It's luxury consumption.

I think he's criticising the entire mind-set of... Let's not call them milleneals. Let's call them the modern working class. The way I interpret what he's saying is that they should be less focused on luxury consumption in order to show off money (they don't have). And instead try to figure out how to invest money and get financial leverage. In today's world that is necessary today.

There's a lot of people today who have no savings. Instead they have debts. Well... that just won't cut it today. And if you've got no savings but still blow your cash on luxury consumption you're screwing yourself over.

It's not so much about the avocado toast. It's more about the mindset. If a poor person thinks that avocado toast is a good idea, it's evidence of a deeper, more systematic problem in society.

We need a new working class culture today. At least when it comes to handling money. We need one that's more in line with how the middle-class used to behave fifty years ago. If we don't we're just wasting resources and opportunities.

Right now we're taking oil from the ground, burning it on nothing, and releasing it into the atmosphere and have nothing to show for it. Not only. But to a large degree. We need to stop.

In the 19'th century the highest ideal for the British was to not work. Any job, no matter how classy was below having property and living off rent. The goal was to earn enough so you could stop earning. In USA the highest ideal was to be rich, and getting ever increasingly rich. The British Empire put a lot of money into British society and they blew it on doing nothing. Well.... writing poetry. Basically. The 19'th centuries poetry culture ideal is the avocado toast of today. As a result the British have very little to show for once having had an empire. They squandered their edge on bullshit. And USA is still rich. Now of course Great Brittain has been forced to change attitudes. And that old ideal is completely dead. Because it didn't serve the British. Same goes for the avocado toast.

It's a subtle shift in attitudes. But it's important.

Anyhoo... just my two cents.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

In a highly inflated speculative market. $4 AUD coffee will get somebody a downpayment in about 30-50 years. Provided coffee and downpayment prices are stable.

He's an ass. But I'm pretty sure he's just using that as an example, and is just generally accusing millennials of being spoiled and expecting an easy ride in life. I've seen the same argument when it comes to coddling of them regarding "safe spaces" etc and not having their ideas challenged. This seems to be an outgrowth of the backlash against the regressive left and coddled youth. This is a generation that grew up in a time of comparative plenty, didn't experience a war, etc etc. I've heard many of my colleagues complain about hiring millennials in that they feel they have to handle them like delicate children who will quit or cry at the slightest hardship. This is an over reaction and definitely an unfair broad brushing generalization, but I think that is where it is coming from.

I've heard this about every generation since Gen-X. It's an olds way of saying, "get off my lawn".

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Every time I hear someone say "You need to work harder, and then you will get ahead. If you just work harder, things will get better. The reason why you don't have the things you want is you don't work hard enough, so work harder," I think when did this ever work?

No, really. When? The people of this planet who perform the harshest tasks for the longest hours and then die at the youngest ages, never have become and never will become as rich as Oprah or worse, as wealthy as the value of the labor they themselves have produced.

Our species' history from the agricultural age to the present has been based on building wealth to be captured by a few through the work of the many; through the work of slaves, serfs, and when absolutely necessary, wage earners being paid the lowest wages possible in order to steal as much of the value of those people's labor as the society could bear. Working harder is a way to produce more labor, the value of which can then be siphoned off the backs of the worker and into the pockets of the owners.

Now this is not to say there is something wrong with an honest day's labor. There is all kinds of work to be done and the completion of that work benefits many. Work is an activity to be admired and respected. It is abundantly beneficial and it is needed.

But let us be wise. Let us always distinguish between work for the needy and work for the greedy. If your working harder benefits you only after you die (like slaves being promised a better life in heaven), you are working for the greedy. If your working harder today benefits your employer today and you at some date yet to be determined or in some far off future you may never live to see, you are working for the greedy. If your working harder gets you wages that allow you only to build debt and not wealth, you are working for the greedy.

Working hard is no vice. Working harder comes at a price.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Self discipline is the key. Instead of complaining the world isn't dedicating itself to making you happy (not that there isn't validity to having a level playing field) you've got to make your way the best you can while fighting the good fight.

People who look like they are wealthy usually aren't because they spent all their money trying to look like they're wealthy.

Totally agree! Most successful people that I know spend less than what they make, become the best in their field and diversify their cash flow (rental properties, second businesses, second jobs). Successful people rarely drive the nicest car in the parking lot.