Walmart shootings in Denver suburb

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/scott-ostrem-colorado-walmart-shooting-suspect/

Apparently, some guy went into Walmart nonchalantly and shot up the place. He ended up killing 3 people. Everyone was running frantically away. People say there were 30 shots. No one knows why. Homeland Security says no terrorism links.

ETA: Suspect is Scott Ostrem. White male. Motive completely unknown.

 

[RavenSky]

I thought I heard something about this late last night, but then heard nothing on the news this morning. I thought perhaps I dreamed it.

Although the motive was not yet clear, The Denver Channel quoted a source as saying that terrorism was not suspected.

Absolutely random shootings by random gun-toting men are not terrorizing?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I thought I heard something about this late last night, but then heard nothing on the news this morning. I thought perhaps I dreamed it.

Although the motive was not yet clear, The Denver Channel quoted a source as saying that terrorism was not suspected.

Absolutely random shootings by random gun-toting men are not terrorizing?

Terrorism is a politically motivated act of violence. This was an unknown motivated act of multiple killings. What we must remember is that because a white person was involved, we really need to kick them out of the US. Especially if he was a Broncos fan.

 

[Derec]

ETA: Suspect is Scott Ostrem. White male. Motive completely unknown.

And the fact that you don't open a thread for every drive-by shooting in Chicago or Detroit that kills three people is surely just happenstance and has nothing to do with the fact that you can't blame whitey for those, right?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Attack the messenger? Could you please stick to the topic which is not me. Also, no posting of random pictures of BLM, Islamist terrorists driving trucks etc. Not relevant here. Thank you.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Update

Suspect has been caught.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...uspect-in-deadly-walmart-shooting-in-colorado

 

[LordKiran]

ETA: Suspect is Scott Ostrem. White male. Motive completely unknown.

And the fact that you don't open a thread for every drive-by shooting in Chicago or Detroit that kills three people is surely just happenstance and has nothing to do with the fact that you can't blame whitey for those, right?

The phrase "You just showed your ass." comes to mind.

 

[RavenSky]

I thought I heard something about this late last night, but then heard nothing on the news this morning. I thought perhaps I dreamed it.



Absolutely random shootings by random gun-toting men are not terrorizing?

Terrorism is a politically motivated act of violence. This was an unknown motivated act of multiple killings. What we must remember is that because a white person was involved, we really need to kick them out of the US. Especially if he was a Broncos fan.

I understand the distinction, and don't disagree with it.

I just disagree with the general perception that somehow "terrorism" is so much worse than this:

Thornton police spokesman Victor Avila said at a news conference that police knew of no motive in what appears to have been a random shooting. According to Avila, Ostrem said nothing as he opened fire inside the Walmart in Thornton around 6 p.m. local time.

"He walked in very nonchalantly with his hands in the pockets, raised a weapon and began shooting. Then he turns around and walks out of the store," Avila said Wednesday.

Where is is the orange turd with a twitter storm about extreme vetting for this?

 

[funinspace]

Terrorism is a politically motivated act of violence. This was an unknown motivated act of multiple killings. What we must remember is that because a white person was involved, we really need to kick them out of the US. Especially if he was a Broncos fan.

I understand the distinction, and don't disagree with it.

I just disagree with the general perception that somehow "terrorism" is so much worse than this:

Pffft...wuts the big deal. Who wants to shop at Mallwart or listen to country music anyway?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Terrorism is a politically motivated act of violence. This was an unknown motivated act of multiple killings. What we must remember is that because a white person was involved, we really need to kick them out of the US. Especially if he was a Broncos fan.

I understand the distinction, and don't disagree with it.

I just disagree with the general perception that somehow "terrorism" is so much worse than this:

Thornton police spokesman Victor Avila said at a news conference that police knew of no motive in what appears to have been a random shooting. According to Avila, Ostrem said nothing as he opened fire inside the Walmart in Thornton around 6 p.m. local time.

"He walked in very nonchalantly with his hands in the pockets, raised a weapon and began shooting. Then he turns around and walks out of the store," Avila said Wednesday.

Where is is the orange turd with a twitter storm about extreme vetting for this?

You don't seem to appreciate that the perpetrator was a white guy and how that affects the calculus for so many Americans when it comes to mass murder.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I understand the distinction, and don't disagree with it.

I just disagree with the general perception that somehow "terrorism" is so much worse than this:

Pffft...wuts the big deal. Who wants to shop at Mallwart or listen to country music anyway?

Surprised that he isn't up in arms about an attack at a convenience mart installed in his great wall.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Update

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...run-ins-with-police-financial-troubles?page=2

Victims were "52-year-old Pamela Marques of Denver, 66-year-old Carlos Moreno of Thornton, and 26-year-old Victor Vasquez of Denver."

Scott Allen Ostrem, the man accused of shooting and killing three people at a Walmart in suburban Denver Wednesday evening, usually kept to himself and was sometimes seen carrying a rifle bag back and forth between his apartment and car, neighbors said Thursday.

...

Colorado court records show he has been arrested at least four times since 1990, when he was arrested on a harassment charge in Westminster. He was found guilty of the charge and sentenced to two days in jail.

In April 1991, Ostrem was charged with driving under the influence in Adams County, but he was never convicted, according to the court records.

In December 1999, he was charged in Denver with assault on a peace officer, possession of dangerous weapons, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.
...

In January 2013, Ostrem was arrested by Wheat Ridge police on a DUI charge. But the charge was eventually lowered to driving while ability impaired...

He declared Chapter 7 bankruptcy in September 2015...

...he walked off the job Wednesday morning before the shooting, employees confirmed.

At the time of the bankruptcy filing, he calculated he was expending about $270 a month more than he was receiving in income. The filing also showed that there were dozens of creditors seeking payments from Ostrem, including the IRS and Colorado Department of Revenue.

His bankruptcy attorney told Denver7 he didn’t remember much about Ostrem, but said the shooting was “very sad.”

Records from the Colorado Secretary of State's Office show that Ostrem also created two different limited-liability corporations in Colorado that have both since been classified as delinquent.

He registered Ostrem Installation LLC in June 2012 at an address in Thornton. It was delinquent as of No. 1, 2013.

And he registered MKA Electronics LLC on Jan. 2, 2013 at a PO Box in Arvada, which was delinquent as of June 1, 2014.

Ostrem is registered as a Republican in Colorado, according to voter records. He is not married.

 

[PyramidHead]

Terrorism is a politically motivated act of violence. This was an unknown motivated act of multiple killings. What we must remember is that because a white person was involved, we really need to kick them out of the US. Especially if he was a Broncos fan.

I understand the distinction, and don't disagree with it.

I just disagree with the general perception that somehow "terrorism" is so much worse than this:

Thornton police spokesman Victor Avila said at a news conference that police knew of no motive in what appears to have been a random shooting. According to Avila, Ostrem said nothing as he opened fire inside the Walmart in Thornton around 6 p.m. local time.

"He walked in very nonchalantly with his hands in the pockets, raised a weapon and began shooting. Then he turns around and walks out of the store," Avila said Wednesday.

That's a fair point. I think framing something as terrorism allows the event to be separated from the many other acts of violence that occur on a daily basis in the US, and treated as some kind of anomaly that needs a special response. What are we going to do about this latest act of terrorism? It has less punch when you instead say: what are we going to do about this latest act of violent crime? Because the answer to that one is, pretty much what we always do, find the person who did it, look at how we can prevent it from happening again if possible, etc. like any functioning nation with publicly funded law enforcement generally does. Yet when we call it terrorism we have to pick through all this garbage about race, religion, and immigration status. Like we don't have any other way of combating crime except to get the President and border patrol involved.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The victims Latino? Oh... wait, we aren't allowed to use the term "hate crime", because it is a right-wing trigger word.

 

[KeepTalking]

So, all of the victims were hispanic, and Ostrem is a Republican.

Well then, no chance this was political, and therefor it can't possibly be terrorism...

Yeah, right.

 

[prideandfall]

by the by...
thornton is a relatively newer segment of the denver urban sprawl, it's really only been a thing for about 25-30 years or so (prior to that it was just pasture and industrial parks) and since it's not a nice area nor geographically well placed, it's sort of become an area of what i'd call "stable low-middle income" - it's not slums and it's not crime ridden, but there's nothing for miles around thornton except service sector jobs and low-mid residential areas.

anyways, the point is, thornton is chock full of mexicans, and walmart being walmart, that means that statistically speaking a walmart in thornton is going to be predominantly hispanic in its patronage at any given time frame.
now obviously this guy could have targeted walmart in order to have access to mexicans, or it could just be that he wandered into the first large store that popped into his head and it's an unrelated metric that lead to the victimology.
just pointing out that this is an area densely populated with hispanics for regional context.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The victims Latino? Oh... wait, we aren't allowed to use the term "hate crime", because it is a right-wing trigger word.

It could be coincidence that he was a white male republican who gunned down 3 people at a Walmart with Spanish-sounding names. Hispanic/Latino population of Thornton is 31.7% and percent at Walmart might be higher due to economic imbalance. So, I mean, there could be a 50% chance of hispanic customer in Walmart and the odds of this happening may not be statistically significant given that demographic. You could be right...he could have been angry about his finances, disgruntled about work etc, and taken it out on perceived immigrants or minorities.

Also, in order to make this narrative work, don't forget he walked off his job. It really sounds like something triggered him from there. That has to be compatible and consistent with this hypothesis. So, did he walk off the job because they hired another minority and this made him angry or was it because he found out that Mary Sue got married?

Hate crime is totally plausible, but we need to wait a bit and see if this is the reason this happened. What additionally comes out, like his social media activities and personal accounts from estranged relatives...

 

[Underseer]

https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/scott-ostrem-colorado-walmart-shooting-suspect/

Apparently, some guy went into Walmart nonchalantly and shot up the place. He ended up killing 3 people. Everyone was running frantically away. People say there were 30 shots. No one knows why. Homeland Security says no terrorism links.

ETA: Suspect is Scott Ostrem. White male. Motive completely unknown.

No terrorism links?

Does that mean he doesn't know any other white people? I thought we already established through the logic of conservative arguments that all white people are terrorists.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

ETA: Suspect is Scott Ostrem. White male. Motive completely unknown.

And the fact that you don't open a thread for every drive-by shooting in Chicago or Detroit that kills three people is surely just happenstance and has nothing to do with the fact that you can't blame whitey for those, right?

Drive-bys aren't news because they are almost always criminals shooting at criminals. Criminals killing criminals are not newsworthy unless there's something spectacular about it.

 

[dismal]

I think this strategy to argue white people are racist terrorists will work out well for the Democrats.

Keep pushing.