Rights for the dead?

[Jolly_Penguin]

Does anybody here support corpse rights?

Should you have a right to deny the use of your future corpse for research, as a cadaver for teaching, or organ donor? If so, on what secular basis? After you are dead, there is no more you to own or control that body? It is just an object.

How about grave robbing? Other than reasons for society still alive (discouraging theft etc) are there any secular reasons to be concerned about respecting the dead?

And the taboo about speaking ill of the dead... I understand that taboo is to respect survivors who are grieving their lost ones, but is there any other basis for this regarding respect for the dead themselves?

Finally, can you think of a secular basis against sex with dead bodies other than disease? Consent isn't an issue at that point, right? Or does somebody here think it possible to rape a corpse? With beastiality there is at least a living thinking being used for your sexual gratification. Necrophilia just seems to me like a kink for a weird sex toy.

Food for thought.

 

[Elixir]

Does anybody here support corpse rights?

Should you have a right to deny the use of your future corpse for research, as a cadaver for teaching, or organ donor? If so, on what secular basis? After you are dead, there is no more you to own or control that body? It is just an object.

How about grave robbing? Other than reasons for society still alive (discouraging theft etc) are there any secular reasons to be concerned about respecting the dead?

And the taboo about speaking ill of the dead... I understand that taboo is to respect survivors who are grieving their lost ones, but is there any other basis for this regarding respect for the dead themselves?

Finally, can you think of a secular basis against sex with dead bodies other than disease? Consent isn't an issue at that point, right? Or does somebody here think it possible to rape a corpse? With beastiality there is at least a living thinking being used for your sexual gratification. Necrophilia just seems to me like a kink for a weird sex toy.

Food for thought.

Mmmm, food.
I suggest that we all submit to rule by blastocysts henceforth. At least nobody will be trying tohave sex with them.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think it has to do with respect for human beings in general. Even though a body is really just a hunk of meat, it used to be a human being and therefore exists in a separate category than other hunks of meat.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Does anybody here support corpse rights?

Should you have a right to deny the use of your future corpse for research, as a cadaver for teaching, or organ donor? If so, on what secular basis? After you are dead, there is no more you to own or control that body? It is just an object.

How about grave robbing? Other than reasons for society still alive (discouraging theft etc) are there any secular reasons to be concerned about respecting the dead?

And the taboo about speaking ill of the dead... I understand that taboo is to respect survivors who are grieving their lost ones, but is there any other basis for this regarding respect for the dead themselves?

Finally, can you think of a secular basis against sex with dead bodies other than disease? Consent isn't an issue at that point, right? Or does somebody here think it possible to rape a corpse? With beastiality there is at least a living thinking being used for your sexual gratification. Necrophilia just seems to me like a kink for a weird sex toy.

Food for thought.

Is Jolly Penguin a duck?

 

[dismal]

Does anybody here support corpse rights?

I'm generally of the idea that my body is mine and I have some rights (and responsibilities) with respect to what happens to it after death.

 

[Playball40]

I think it has to do with respect for human beings in general. Even though a body is really just a hunk of meat, it used to be a human being and therefore exists in a separate category than other hunks of meat.

Right. And why should I have to share that "hunk of meat". Seems to me that the body becomes the possession of the next of kin, not just some undetermined matter. As a society we have rights to our possessions. Whether it's ashes or a body, I have the right to it if it's my next of kin - not the government.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Does anybody here support corpse rights?

I'm generally of the idea that my body is mine and I have some rights (and responsibilities) with respect to what happens to it after death.

Why? Once you are dead is there any more "you"?

 

[dismal]

Does anybody here support corpse rights?

I'm generally of the idea that my body is mine and I have some rights (and responsibilities) with respect to what happens to it after death.

Why? Once you are dead is there any more "you"?

It is a right I have while living. I have a right to decide what happens to my furniture when I die too.

 

[southernhybrid]

It doesn't matter to me personally, but a lot of people like the idea of being able to decide what happens to their dead bodies while they are still alive. I think the family of the deceased should also have a say in what happens, unless the deceased has made his/her wishes known prior to death. And, too, not everyone is an atheist. A lot of religious people have special rituals or beliefs regarding a dead body. As kooky as they may be to us, I think people should have the right to determine what happens to their dead bodies.

My mother in law, for example, planned her entire funeral, picked out everything she wanted at the funeral, including the casket and flowers, and chose to be put in a mausoleum on the top shelf. ( Don't ask ) It was all paid by her, prior to her death. Regardless of how silly some of her plans might have seemed to us, we felt it best to respect her wishes. I think some people like to plan their own funerals because it gives them the feeling that even after death, they still have some control over their bodies. For that matter, I've even known a few atheists that wanted very specific things done at their funerals. You can burn me and roll me up and smoke me after I die. I'll be dead so I won't care, but not everyone thinks like I do. I respect their right to be nutty.

But what has this to do with politics? Are you hoping a law will be passed that allows the government to decide what happens to dead bodies?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Does anybody here support corpse rights?

I'm generally of the idea that my body is mine and I have some rights (and responsibilities) with respect to what happens to it after death.

Why? Once you are dead is there any more "you"?

People typically pay places where they are buried for a resting place. So while you could possibly be onto the necro-Hall of Fame, you'd be trespassing and causing property damage in order to live the life of a duck.

 

[ZiprHead]

Does anybody here support corpse rights?

I'm generally of the idea that my body is mine and I have some rights (and responsibilities) with respect to what happens to it after death.

I think the body belongs to whoever you request it to in your death instructions. If you want your body donated to science, that person better be donating it to science.

 

[prideandfall]

Does anybody here support corpse rights?

absolutely not, the very idea of it is patently ridiculous.
every corpse should be immediately seized under the eminent domain clause and scrapped for parts where possible, given over to medical science when viable, and put into a brothel for necropheliacs when it's been used up.

Should you have a right to deny the use of your future corpse for research, as a cadaver for teaching, or organ donor?

no

How about grave robbing? Other than reasons for society still alive (discouraging theft etc) are there any secular reasons to be concerned about respecting the dead?

man is there any more of a pathetic and ridiculous waste of land in the modern world than this bullshit?
do away with them entirely.

And the taboo about speaking ill of the dead... I understand that taboo is to respect survivors who are grieving their lost ones, but is there any other basis for this regarding respect for the dead themselves?

this is one of those weird areas where i have observed that non-theists hold theistic beliefs, because this whole thing where people treat sacks of meat roughly shaped like humans as some kind of sacrosanct object is just fucking bizarre.

Finally, can you think of a secular basis against sex with dead bodies other than disease? Consent isn't an issue at that point, right? Or does somebody here think it possible to rape a corpse? With beastiality there is at least a living thinking being used for your sexual gratification. Necrophilia just seems to me like a kink for a weird sex toy.

there should be dead body brothels where corpses that no longer serve any medical or scientific use get dropped off so necros can suck, fuck, fondle, diddle, and finger bang them until their balls are whistling "oh come all ye faithful".

 

[Bronzeage]

There is a concept and principle of human society known as "reciprocity". It's basically the Golden Rule. Reciprocity is why we are courteous to people when it's of no possible benefit to ourselves. This goes beyond simply not wanting to create a bad situation. It's an attempt to foster good situations, which makes everyone's life just a little better.

The hope is, your own life will benefit.

I think corpse rights fits into the niche of reciprocity. The idea that a person has no rights after they are dead, certainly seems contrary to it. For myself, I have no particular cares about what happens to my dead body, but that maybe only because I'm fairly certain of who will be responsible for it, and I'm sure they will do something appropriate.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I think it has to do with respect for human beings in general. Even though a body is really just a hunk of meat, it used to be a human being and therefore exists in a separate category than other hunks of meat.

Right. And why should I have to share that "hunk of meat". Seems to me that the body becomes the possession of the next of kin, not just some undetermined matter. As a society we have rights to our possessions. Whether it's ashes or a body, I have the right to it if it's my next of kin - not the government.

That's another question, and one I disagree with you on - inheritance. In every nation I know of the children or spouse inherit wealth from you when you die. Or it can be done through a will. I believe that the state should take it and redistribute it to the benefit of all. I don't see why being born of particular parents should automatically mean you get such big benefits over others. I'm for merit instead of birth right.

- - - Updated - - -

Why? Once you are dead is there any more "you"?

It is a right I have while living. I have a right to decide what happens to my furniture when I die too.

But why? Why should the directives of a memory of a person be followed? Once you are dead, there is no more you to adhere to or respect.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I am not sure if what Prideandfall posted above was posted in jest, but I actually agree with it completely as far as rights and respect for the dead go. I would only alter it based on the comfort and psychological trauma of the living.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

There is a concept and principle of human society known as "reciprocity". It's basically the Golden Rule. Reciprocity is why we are courteous to people when it's of no possible benefit to ourselves. This goes beyond simply not wanting to create a bad situation. It's an attempt to foster good situations, which makes everyone's life just a little better.

The hope is, your own life will benefit.

I think corpse rights fits into the niche of reciprocity. The idea that a person has no rights after they are dead, certainly seems contrary to it. For myself, I have no particular cares about what happens to my dead body, but that maybe only because I'm fairly certain of who will be responsible for it, and I'm sure they will do something appropriate.

But why do you care? It isn't like you will be looking down from heaven and seeing stuff happen to it right? I do think this is a quasi-religious thing atheists buy into because society has shaped us to.

As far as I am concerned, the moment I am dead, they can harvest all my organs, use me as a teaching aid, churn me up for shark food, and sure, use part of my corpse as a sex toy. There isn't a me at that point. Its just stuff. Nor should I have any say or my memory be listened to, except as far as that comforts the living. I do understand children wanting to honour their parents' memory, but that is only for their own psyche and not for the dead.

 

[prideandfall]

I am not sure if what Prideandfall posted above was posted in jest, but I actually agree with it completely as far as rights and respect for the dead go. I would only alter it based on the comfort and psychological trauma of the living.

it was not, i don't do sarcasm posts in that way. i meant everything i said sincerely.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your corpse is your property, you should get to decide what is done with it.

 

[prideandfall]

Your corpse is your property, you should get to decide what is done with it.

see i agree with you that your corpse is your property, insofar as "your property" can even be a concept after you're dead, but i also feel that the state has an overriding interest in your corpse which should supersede the interests of you or your kin.

a fresh corpse is a valuable asset and has a lot of potential resources for the greater good of society, and it has no value (other than sentimental) to the family, i can see no legitimate secular reasoning to explain why a bunch of petty irrelevant feelings should deprive society of an irreplaceable medical resource.

so, sure, it's your property... but then the state should eminent domain that shit and chuck every corpse in the "scrap it for parts" pile.

 

[Playball40]

That's another question, and one I disagree with you on - inheritance. In every nation I know of the children or spouse inherit wealth from you when you die. Or it can be done through a will. I believe that the state should take it and redistribute it to the benefit of all. I don't see why being born of particular parents should automatically mean you get such big benefits over others. I'm for merit instead of birth right.

- - - Updated - - -

Why? Once you are dead is there any more "you"?

It is a right I have while living. I have a right to decide what happens to my furniture when I die too.

But why? Why should the directives of a memory of a person be followed? Once you are dead, there is no more you to adhere to or respect.

We are talking about a body, not money. Although I disagree that cash inheritance is wrong. But it should be taxed substantially.