What is the actual free will humans have?

[DBT]

Emotions/feelings are not willed in existence. They form and are experienced in response to events/stimuli that evoke feelings that are followed by thoughts and actions.

 

[fromderinside]

To wit: The thought of liver makes my skin crawl.

 

[untermensche]

Emotions/feelings are not willed in existence. They form and are experienced in response to events/stimuli that evoke feelings that are followed by thoughts and actions.

Humans can create emotion at will.

If they are practiced at it like some actors are.

The key to all control with the mind is practice.

That's how stroke patients use their will to force their brain to reorganize.

 

[DBT]

Emotions/feelings are not willed in existence. They form and are experienced in response to events/stimuli that evoke feelings that are followed by thoughts and actions.

Humans can create emotion at will.

If they are practiced at it like some actors are.

The key to all control with the mind is practice.

That's how stroke patients use their will to force their brain to reorganize.

They are called actors for a reason, they simulate emotions. They aren't actually fearful for their lives when another actor, looking homicidal, attacks them with a knife....

 

[untermensche]

Emotions/feelings are not willed in existence. They form and are experienced in response to events/stimuli that evoke feelings that are followed by thoughts and actions.

Humans can create emotion at will.

If they are practiced at it like some actors are.

The key to all control with the mind is practice.

That's how stroke patients use their will to force their brain to reorganize.

They are called actors for a reason, they simulate emotions. They aren't actually fearful for their lives when another actor, looking homicidal, attacks them with a knife....

They experience the emotion. The good ones.

Ask them.

The not so good ones only simulate them.

 

[DBT]

They are called actors for a reason, they simulate emotions. They aren't actually fearful for their lives when another actor, looking homicidal, attacks them with a knife....

They experience the emotion. The good ones.

Ask them.

The not so good ones only simulate them.

Not the same, the actor/attacker with the knife does not actually experience homicidal rage and the victim does not actually fear for their life. They are acting out their roles, which gives rise to emotions, but not like actual terror or actual homicidal rage. The job of an actor is to simulate emotions, which entails mentally placing themselves in the role they are playing, which in turn generates response by their brain, stimuli, mirror neurons, etc, which in turn enables a feeling for the characters and roles they play. They do not evoke terror at will, like a turning on a tap. Stimuli always comes first, the brain responding to its stimuli generates feelings.

 

[ruby sparks]

'Stimuli always come first' is pretty much it. Even if the stimulus (or cause shall we say) was the actor consciously willing him/herself to 'get into the fictional murder scene mentally' (and experience emotions related to it) one then has to ask where did that idea, to do that, come from? Why didn't the man outside the theatre selling hot dogs have that idea? Or the woman in the next town who's making a cup of tea?

You can do all sorts of laddering of questions and what happens is you get into an infinite regress which can only end with something that has to be an uncasused cause, a cause unto itself, in some way other than being random. Now, whether or not there is or ever was such a thing in the universe is unclear, but my system is pretty sure it isn't something it could possibly manage.

 

[DBT]

Exactly. The audience also feel emotions arise in response to the scenes they are watching, each according to their own experience. Rather than consciously willing their feelings into existence, just like the actors, this is a natural response to what is being consciously experienced. Actors also train for their role playing by putting themselves into the shoes of the character they are playing.

 

[untermensche]

They are called actors for a reason, they simulate emotions. They aren't actually fearful for their lives when another actor, looking homicidal, attacks them with a knife....

They experience the emotion. The good ones.

Ask them.

The not so good ones only simulate them.

Not the same, the actor/attacker with the knife does not actually experience homicidal rage and the victim does not actually fear for their life. They are acting out their roles, which gives rise to emotions, but not like actual terror or actual homicidal rage. The job of an actor is to simulate emotions, which entails mentally placing themselves in the role they are playing, which in turn generates response by their brain, stimuli, mirror neurons, etc, which in turn enables a feeling for the characters and roles they play. They do not evoke terror at will, like a turning on a tap. Stimuli always comes first, the brain responding to its stimuli generates feelings.

Feeling an emotion is feeling an emotion.

Same exact thing.

Caused by the will, not some reflex.

Your denial of the will in human affairs is simply a form of willed blindness. Forget all these stories about the brain that people have made up and have no correspondence to anything real and open your eyes for one second.

To deny the will in your life is to move about rudderless and believe stories of the visions of the blind.

 

[ruby sparks]

...open your eyes for one second.

I think maybe you meant to post this in the consciousness thread, as a good example, along with blinking, of bodily actions which can either be unconsciously caused or consciously caused?

 

[untermensche]

...open your eyes for one second.

I think maybe you meant to post this in the consciousness thread, as a good example of bodily actions which can either be unconsciously caused or consciously caused?

Either you decided to write that because you willfully ran some ideas in your mind and came up with a conclusion or it was some complicated reflex.

The experience we have is that we are in control. Conclusions don't just happen. We make them using our will.

Why should I ignore a lifetime of experience and believe stories without evidence?

 

[DBT]

Not the same, the actor/attacker with the knife does not actually experience homicidal rage and the victim does not actually fear for their life. They are acting out their roles, which gives rise to emotions, but not like actual terror or actual homicidal rage. The job of an actor is to simulate emotions, which entails mentally placing themselves in the role they are playing, which in turn generates response by their brain, stimuli, mirror neurons, etc, which in turn enables a feeling for the characters and roles they play. They do not evoke terror at will, like a turning on a tap. Stimuli always comes first, the brain responding to its stimuli generates feelings.

Feeling an emotion is feeling an emotion.

Same exact thing.

Caused by the will, not some reflex.

Your denial of the will in human affairs is simply a form of willed blindness. Forget all these stories about the brain that people have made up and have no correspondence to anything real and open your eyes for one second.

To deny the will in your life is to move about rudderless and believe stories of the visions of the blind.

You miss the point about how emotions arise entirely, and you misrepresent my position. I have never denied the existence of will.

 

[fromderinside]

To deny the will in your life is to move about rudderless and believe stories of the visions of the blind.

You miss the point about how emotions arise entirely, and you misrepresent my position. I have never denied the existence of will.

Yeah untermenche. Willlessness is more in my bailiwick. One doesn't need a rudder to be one. Electrons. Now there's a example of rudderless entanglement.

 

[untermensche]

To deny the will in your life is to move about rudderless and believe stories of the visions of the blind.

You miss the point about how emotions arise entirely, and you misrepresent my position. I have never denied the existence of will.

Yeah untermenche. Willlessness is more in my bailiwick. One doesn't need a rudder to be one. Electrons. Now there's a example of rudderless entanglement.

Your continual insanity is noted.

The electron does not move along a planned path.

But a human can.

To examine some concept in the mind is not a reflex.

If it were everybody would do it the same way. Everybody would believe the same thing and sing the same song.

But since some are so poor at dealing with ideas we can clearly see it is an acquired skill gained through practice using the will.

 

[fromderinside]

That's your most laughable post yet. The path is determined.

If it were everybody would do it the same way. Everybody would believe the same thing and sing the same song.

Not doing the same as others is not evidence for planning or will.

Untermenche deceives himself. Check history. The facts are clear. You didn't plan to be where you are today except in the last few minutes when it was already clear what you were going to do by everyone else.

You response to this post will be proof of that.

 

[untermensche]

That's your most laughable post yet. The path is determined.

If it were everybody would do it the same way. Everybody would believe the same thing and sing the same song.

Not doing the same as others is not evidence for planning or will.

Untermenche deceives himself. Check history. The facts are clear. You didn't plan to be where you are today except in the last few minutes when it was already clear what you were going to do by everyone else.

You response to this post will be proof of that.

Do you know what a reflex Is?

You behave as if you have no clue.

A reflex is a stereotypical response. It is absurdity to claim it applies in any way to the workings of a mind.

 

[fromderinside]

Your reply was a reflex. Check back through your posts. reflex for this, reflex for that, reflex now, reflex, then reflex forever. Not a very good attempt to act like one who has free will with a working mind on your part untermenche.

 

[untermensche]

I know. You scared a squid once and it jumped.

And from this you concluded all human behavior is a reflex.

Brilliant.

 

[Kharakov]

I know. You scared a squid once and it jumped.

Dude, the bot calculated the intersection value of squirts and twitches...

 

[fromderinside]

Naw. You're thinking of Tiny Dancer.