• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

The Greed and Hate of the Religious Right

Rhea

Cyborg with a Tiara
Staff member
Joined
Jan 31, 2001
Messages
15,413
Location
Recluse
Basic Beliefs
Humanist
I’ve decided Ayn Rand is the Golden Calf of today’s Pharisees, if you’ll pardon the mixed verse metaphor.


We are starting to hear the moderate and liberal Christians disown them publicly.
 
I’ve decided Ayn Rand is the Golden Calf of today’s Pharisees, if you’ll pardon the mixed verse metaphor.


We are starting to hear the moderate and liberal Christians disown them publicly.

I like moderate/liberal Christians, but let's face it, they are an ineffectual minority and they always will be, and there is no way to convince the majority of Christians why they should care about the lives of others.
 
The essence of the doctrine of Salvation is largely self interest....salvation of self and everyone related in some way to self, and the rest, the 'other,' well, too bad if they are damned, that's how it goes...
 
I’ve decided Ayn Rand is the Golden Calf of today’s Pharisees, if you’ll pardon the mixed verse metaphor.


We are starting to hear the moderate and liberal Christians disown them publicly.

I like moderate/liberal Christians, but let's face it, they are an ineffectual minority and they always will be, and there is no way to convince the majority of Christians why they should care about the lives of others.

We live in very different worlds/cultures. I only meet this sort of hateful Christian online. Every Christian I know cares about the lives of others. Every Jew and Muslim I know does too. We probably have a few who don't here, but they are rare and hidden. You actually get it in your face as the norm?
 
I've thought that things should be the opposite, atheists should appreciate the greed and self interest in us and that religiously greed has been something they are against. One of the main tenets of of the major religions is that you make the sacrifices today so that ever last heaven at the end and greed has been one of those items looked upon for centuries.
 
I’ve decided Ayn Rand is the Golden Calf of today’s Pharisees, if you’ll pardon the mixed verse metaphor.


We are starting to hear the moderate and liberal Christians disown them publicly.

I like moderate/liberal Christians, but let's face it, they are an ineffectual minority and they always will be, and there is no way to convince the majority of Christians why they should care about the lives of others.

We live in very different worlds/cultures. I only meet this sort of hateful Christian online. Every Christian I know cares about the lives of others. Every Jew and Muslim I know does too. We probably have a few who don't here, but they are rare and hidden. You actually get it in your face as the norm?

Who did these caring Christians vote for?

What are the people these Christians are voting for doing?
 
I’ve decided Ayn Rand is the Golden Calf of today’s Pharisees, if you’ll pardon the mixed verse metaphor.


We are starting to hear the moderate and liberal Christians disown them publicly.
What, all three of them are speaking out? ;)

ETA:
I’ve decided Ayn Rand is the Golden Calf of today’s Pharisees, if you’ll pardon the mixed verse metaphor.


We are starting to hear the moderate and liberal Christians disown them publicly.

I like moderate/liberal Christians, but let's face it, they are an ineffectual minority and they always will be, and there is no way to convince the majority of Christians why they should care about the lives of others.

We live in very different worlds/cultures. I only meet this sort of hateful Christian online. Every Christian I know cares about the lives of others. Every Jew and Muslim I know does too. We probably have a few who don't here, but they are rare and hidden. You actually get it in your face as the norm?
Probably. Even within the US, different parts are quite different. The midwest was horribly racist and religion was obnoxiously 'in your face'. The west coast wasn't as bad, but the few right wing people there were very loud and obnoxious about it (99% of the time, if someone was rude enough to bring up politics in casual conversation, it was the right wingers).

Compared to my time in europe, well, that wasn't just a different world, but like living in a different galaxy, far far away..... ;)
 
We live in very different worlds/cultures. I only meet this sort of hateful Christian online. Every Christian I know cares about the lives of others. Every Jew and Muslim I know does too. We probably have a few who don't here, but they are rare and hidden. You actually get it in your face as the norm?

As untermensch points out, yes it is in our face daily as they are overrepresented in our government. But yes, in addition, I live in a very very conservative town in a conservative county. I have had people stand up in a room and shout at me while pointing a trembling finger, “YOU WILL ANSWER TO GAWD!!!” Because I dared to claim that the constitution did not allow me to withhold a building permit over the religion of the owner. I have had a children’s director ot the YMCA draw back with a gasp and ask, “you’re not... _atheists!?”

So yes, in my face, and normal enough to be a regular and predictable occurance.
We’ve got whole churches full of them here. This thread was inspired by a co-worker.
 
I’ve decided Ayn Rand is the Golden Calf of today’s Pharisees, if you’ll pardon the mixed verse metaphor.


We are starting to hear the moderate and liberal Christians disown them publicly.

I like moderate/liberal Christians, but let's face it, they are an ineffectual minority and they always will be, and there is no way to convince the majority of Christians why they should care about the lives of others.

We live in very different worlds/cultures. I only meet this sort of hateful Christian online. Every Christian I know cares about the lives of others. Every Jew and Muslim I know does too. We probably have a few who don't here, but they are rare and hidden. You actually get it in your face as the norm?

Hate to break it to you but people behave differently online than they do in person.
 
Agreed about the difference in online behavior.

But I've been hostilely confronted at my work, sometimes about a perceived liberalism, sometimes about uttering that dreadful phrase, "Happy Holidays."
 
James, say "Chag Sameach" which means Happy Festival in Hebrew. If they quote Ayn Rand, point out that Ayn Rand was an outspoken atheist who called Jesus a 'scabrous bum', and called religion a lie and abortion a moral right of women. Most religious Randroids know only the free Never Never Land gush.

Eldarion Lathria
 
I’ve decided Ayn Rand is the Golden Calf of today’s Pharisees, if you’ll pardon the mixed verse metaphor.


We are starting to hear the moderate and liberal Christians disown them publicly.

I like moderate/liberal Christians, but let's face it, they are an ineffectual minority and they always will be, and there is no way to convince the majority of Christians why they should care about the lives of others.

We live in very different worlds/cultures. I only meet this sort of hateful Christian online. Every Christian I know cares about the lives of others. Every Jew and Muslim I know does too. We probably have a few who don't here, but they are rare and hidden. You actually get it in your face as the norm?

How they act online is more honest and much closer to how they act in the voting booth and what agendas are promoted by the churches they support. And bullshit like "I love homosexuals, I just hate their sin." is pure dishonest bullshit to rationalize their self-serving intolerant hatred while trying to pretend they are caring.

Racial minority Christians are more complicated issue, because of their greater representation among and ties to people suffering from misfortune and/or mistreatment. But among whites, the amount that a Christian actually speaks about and injects their religious views into their politics and positions on social issues is strongly correlated with supporting policies that are not merely uncaring, but actively cruel and immoral. Sure, these Christians "care" about some people, just not the majority of humanity who are not white heterosexuals that share their precise theological views. They care about their family and narrowly defined in-group, but even those folks can find themselves kicked out of that narrow group the second get out of line (e.g., becomes gay, trans, questions religion, marries a black guy). That shows even their seeming caring is more about caring for their ideology.
 
I've thought that things should be the opposite, atheists should appreciate the greed and self interest in us and that religiously greed has been something they are against. One of the main tenets of of the major religions is that you make the sacrifices today so that ever last heaven at the end and greed has been one of those items looked upon for centuries.

I disagree. Theism (especially monotheism) is purely about selfishness. Monotheistic morality is rooted in whatever aligns with the selfish will of a creator God. It's "good" or "bad", depending on what he wants. Since what he wants is entirely invented by the believer and/or whatever other person they let decide for them, then their morality is entirely about promoting self interest. That doesn't always equal greed about money, because many people don't value money as much as other things. For a devout theists, their ideology is more important than money, so the selfish motives will be in service of promoting that ideology. For example, the selfishness can lead to harming others to promote the idea that homosexuality is wrong, regardless of whether the person makes a financial gain from doing so.

With atheism, there is no God that one can use as a proxy to equate selfish motives with morality. Instead, the only meaningful sense of morality hinges upon doing harm to others. And atheism should enhance one's innate sense of empathy and widen the circle of people that evoke it, because their is no God's will taking precedence and narrowing the circle based on who serves his will.

There may be sociopaths who lack basic empathy and thus actually act more moral and caring under the fear of God's authority. And theism is likely to increase one's willingness to make extreme sacrifice of one's wealth, time, and even life to "serve God". That can eit er mean anything from being a suicide bomber to giving all one's wealth to either fight against gays or against hunger. So, it cuts both ways and is a wash.
 
I've thought that things should be the opposite, atheists should appreciate the greed and self interest in us and that religiously greed has been something they are against. One of the main tenets of of the major religions is that you make the sacrifices today so that ever last heaven at the end and greed has been one of those items looked upon for centuries.

I disagree. Theism (especially monotheism) is purely about selfishness. Monotheistic morality is rooted in whatever aligns with the selfish will of a creator God. It's "good" or "bad", depending on what he wants. Since what he wants is entirely invented by the believer and/or whatever other person they let decide for them, then their morality is entirely about promoting self interest. That doesn't always equal greed about money, because many people don't value money as much as other things. For a devout theists, their ideology is more important than money, so the selfish motives will be in service of promoting that ideology. For example, the selfishness can lead to harming others to promote the idea that homosexuality is wrong, regardless of whether the person makes a financial gain from doing so.

With atheism, there is no God that one can use as a proxy to equate selfish motives with morality. Instead, the only meaningful sense of morality hinges upon doing harm to others. And atheism should enhance one's innate sense of empathy and widen the circle of people that evoke it, because their is no God's will taking precedence and narrowing the circle based on who serves his will.

There may be sociopaths who lack basic empathy and thus actually act more moral and caring under the fear of God's authority. And theism is likely to increase one's willingness to make extreme sacrifice of one's wealth, time, and even life to "serve God". That can eit er mean anything from being a suicide bomber to giving all one's wealth to either fight against gays or against hunger. So, it cuts both ways and is a wash.
IMO the other important factor is that theism in general and monotheism especially is designed to specifically give a framework for abdicating responsibility for your actions, that's kind of the entire hook of religion.
"the way you are isn't your fault, you were made that way. you're not responsible for being what you are. you can behave in whatever way you want, as long as you say you're really sorry before you die and let jesus finger your butthole, you get into heaven" - the entire operation is designed so that people will feel bad about their deviant behavior but not do anything to change it so that in the end they need the church to be absolved for the shit they did.

thus, the more devout one is the less sense of responsibility one has for their actions, creating this kind of moral feedback loop where nothing they do matters to them because in the end they just go "oops sorry jesus!" and it's like none of it ever happened.
there's no need to notice or care about the impact of your behavior on other people if you think all consequence will be magically eradicated.
 
We live in very different worlds/cultures. I only meet this sort of hateful Christian online. Every Christian I know cares about the lives of others. Every Jew and Muslim I know does too. We probably have a few who don't here, but they are rare and hidden. You actually get it in your face as the norm?

As untermensch points out, yes it is in our face daily as they are overrepresented in our government. But yes, in addition, I live in a very very conservative town in a conservative county. I have had people stand up in a room and shout at me while pointing a trembling finger, “YOU WILL ANSWER TO GAWD!!!” Because I dared to claim that the constitution did not allow me to withhold a building permit over the religion of the owner. I have had a children’s director ot the YMCA draw back with a gasp and ask, “you’re not... _atheists!?”

So yes, in my face, and normal enough to be a regular and predictable occurance.
We’ve got whole churches full of them here. This thread was inspired by a co-worker.
Sure, in small conservative towns, I'm sure it is quite common. I've lived all my life in the western side of the US. Outside of the 30-40% fundagelicals segment of Christianity, the mainstream Protestants and RCs, are almost never going to be 'in your face'. Other than the occasional blowhard on a street corner, it just doesn't really happen on this side of the Rockies much in the cities. Even when I lived in Idaho, the conservative Christians generally played nice with the other groupings. But yeah, this version is all too prevalent within the Greedy Old Pervert party. In the media and politics, I think these conservative Christians get far too much credit for representing the face of Christianity; and are certainly the noisiest.
 
We live in very different worlds/cultures. I only meet this sort of hateful Christian online. Every Christian I know cares about the lives of others. Every Jew and Muslim I know does too. We probably have a few who don't here, but they are rare and hidden. You actually get it in your face as the norm?

Who did these caring Christians vote for?

Mostly Trudeau, since he won the election.
 
As untermensch points out, yes it is in our face daily as they are overrepresented in our government. But yes, in addition, I live in a very very conservative town in a conservative county. I have had people stand up in a room and shout at me while pointing a trembling finger, “YOU WILL ANSWER TO GAWD!!!” Because I dared to claim that the constitution did not allow me to withhold a building permit over the religion of the owner. I have had a children’s director ot the YMCA draw back with a gasp and ask, “you’re not... _atheists!?”

People here in Toronto would burst out laughing at that, myself included. "You Will Answer to Gawd" is the sort of thing we expect to hear from the mentally deranged who stand on street corners and everybody else either ignores or gets a good laugh at.
 
We live in very different worlds/cultures. I only meet this sort of hateful Christian online. Every Christian I know cares about the lives of others. Every Jew and Muslim I know does too. We probably have a few who don't here, but they are rare and hidden. You actually get it in your face as the norm?

Who did these caring Christians vote for?

Mostly Trudeau, since he won the election.

This thread is about the religious right in the United States.

They voted for Trump and the Republicans in the US Congress.
 
As untermensch points out, yes it is in our face daily as they are overrepresented in our government. But yes, in addition, I live in a very very conservative town in a conservative county. I have had people stand up in a room and shout at me while pointing a trembling finger, “YOU WILL ANSWER TO GAWD!!!” Because I dared to claim that the constitution did not allow me to withhold a building permit over the religion of the owner. I have had a children’s director ot the YMCA draw back with a gasp and ask, “you’re not... _atheists!?”

People here in Toronto would burst out laughing at that, myself included. "You Will Answer to Gawd" is the sort of thing we expect to hear from the mentally deranged who stand on street corners and everybody else either ignores or gets a good laugh at.

Same here. If an adult said “YOU WILL ANSWER TO GAWD!!!” in a public meeting here, he would get much the same response as if he had said "You will go on Santa's naughty list, and not get any presents!!"
 
Back
Top Bottom