Dear theists, are you angry at me because I argue with you?

[Underseer]

Theists spend an awful lot of time complaining about the fact that we challenge their truth claims. They fervently wish that atheists would just shut up and avoid challenging their truth claims. They insist that atheists who avoid challenging their truth claims are good and that the rest of us should be more like them.

So if you have any such theists in your life, it might be instructional to show them this video.



This guy explains why he gets mad at atheists who challenge the truth claims made by theists. He thinks of theists as 4 year olds whose belief in Santa must be preserved, because theists are idiots and monsters who would go around raping and killing everything in sight if they don't believe in their imaginary friends.

I challenge the truth claims of theists because I think of theists as rational adults. Atheists who don't challenge theist truth claims are often the most condescending of all.

I don't know if any theists still post on these forums. If you are a theist, I hope you'll watch this video and learn about the mindset of atheists who do not challenge your truth claims (which is apparently what you want). For you atheists, if you have theist friends or family who get offended because you express your views at all, perhaps you should show them this video and explain a few things to them.

 

[Ruth Harris]

Theists spend an awful lot of time complaining about the fact that we challenge their truth claims. They fervently wish that atheists would just shut up and avoid challenging their truth claims. They insist that atheists who avoid challenging their truth claims are good and that the rest of us should be more like them.

Not this theist. I don't spend time complaining about non-believers acting like non-believers. You are just as entitled to your beliefs or lack thereof as I am. I won't argue either; I will discuss worldviews and my viewpoint but if all you want to do is argue, I want no part of it.

This guy explains why he gets mad at atheists who challenge the truth claims made by theists. He thinks of theists as 4 year olds whose belief in Santa must be preserved, because theists are idiots and monsters who would go around raping and killing everything in sight if they don't believe in their imaginary friends.

Ah - not quite. He says that calling people stupid because of their faith is not a reasonable or compassionate way to act since their faith does not harm you in any way. And the converse is also true. No believer should call an atheist stupid. I have called out many believers when they do that and told them that they were simply wrong. Faith or the lack thereof has nothing to do with intelligence.

I don't know if any theists still post on these forums. If you are a theist, I hope you'll watch this video and learn about the mindset of atheists who do not challenge your truth claims (which is apparently what you want). For you atheists, if you have theist friends or family who get offended because you express your views at all, perhaps you should show them this video and explain a few things to them.

Here is one theist who does still post occasionally as time permits. I watched the video; not sure it says as much as you think about the mindset of some atheists. This is one man who is explaining his viewpoint and he may not be at all representative of a subset of atheists. He may just be like me and not like to argue when there is no compelling reason for it.

Ruth

 

[Hermit]

That's one youtuber whose channel I won't be visiting again. He makes P. Z. Myers look like he is capable of presenting a point of view in a calm, closely argued manner.

 

[Jason the Rationalist]

Kids having grown up with technology and the Internet, I wonder whether his daughter is familar with his YouTube channel and asked Daddy why he basically lied to her and what else he's been lying to her about.

But blimey, yeah, that's a face and a voice that takes a great deal of energy.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Theists spend an awful lot of time complaining about the fact that we challenge their truth claims. They fervently wish that atheists would just shut up and avoid challenging their truth claims. They insist that atheists who avoid challenging their truth claims are good and that the rest of us should be more like them.

I don't know if any theists still post on these forums. If you are a theist, I hope you'll watch this video and learn about the mindset of atheists who do not challenge your truth claims (which is apparently what you want). For you atheists, if you have theist friends or family who get offended because you express your views at all, perhaps you should show them this video and explain a few things to them.

They get uncomfortable and abusive when questions are asked that they cannot answer. I have asked this question over and over - what does one DO in heaven? Ok we get the happy and joy part but then what? What does one DO all day? Is it all one big vacation? Just lie on the beach all day drinking beer? Food and sex all free and available? Or do we get to enjoy whatever we want to do? Does my sports teams win all the time? And this is the Grand Plan of God? Billions of people just lying about enjoying carefree days doing nothing? Spending a useless existence for eternity? Billions of moochers living off God?

When i ask these questions theists get real upset - they don't like the living off God bit but then struggle to say something about work. What work would the make of this universe have for us lowly humans? What work does he need to get done that he assigns us to?

End of story - they get snippy and nasty

 

[Jason the Rationalist]

An eternal social security arrangement if you will. Yes if everything in heaven is immaterial how would anything "work"? I find the concept of never-ending as paradise a bit perplexing. Even with a great view.

 

[abaddon]

How does one go about "stripping away" other people's beliefs?

The video was a long string of fallacies, from the start to where I stopped the video at about 7:00. Which I did because I couldn't stomach more of the cynical and nihilistic dogshit that he was spouting.

What kind of asshole would this guy be in defending people from their innate abilities to doubt and explore and wonder? (Answer: the kind of sophistic asshole that he is).

The whole notion of "stripping people's beliefs away" is bullshit. How does one go about that, short of putting someone in a cage and torturing them over some weeks or months?

The dude has an ugly view of what human beings (other than his own "sophisticated" self) are like. That's not compassion; it's not an appeal to reasoned discussion. Some atheists share with some theists the "look at what an idiot (or asshole) you are" attitude because we apes play games of oneupmanship. But dialogue without that is possible. Especially when everyone will drop complaining against having their doubts stirred up. Which is just a sneaky "look at what an asshole you are" oneupmanship game... Like the one played through the entirety of that video.

 

[Hermit]

The dude has an ugly view of what human beings...

Yeah, they're all "assholes". As a result of projection, I thought when I listened to him. Like you, I did not last the distance, though I did get to within a minute or so of the end.

 

[Underseer]

Not this theist. I don't spend time complaining about non-believers acting like non-believers. You are just as entitled to your beliefs or lack thereof as I am. I won't argue either; I will discuss worldviews and my viewpoint but if all you want to do is argue, I want no part of it.

Ah, so I am allowed to speak to you, but if I don't agree with everything you say, you will have nothing to do with the conversation. How very magnanimous of you!

Ah - not quite. He says that calling people stupid because of their faith is not a reasonable or compassionate way to act since their faith does not harm you in any way. And the converse is also true. No believer should call an atheist stupid. I have called out many believers when they do that and told them that they were simply wrong. Faith or the lack thereof has nothing to do with intelligence.

He is directly comparing you to a 4 year old child who believe in Santa Claus.

And what is his reasoning for "humoring" the child about belief in Santa? Because he believes it makes the child behave better. Because he believes the child will only behave better with promises of presents just like he thinks you will behave morally only with the promise of heaven and the threat of hell.

I don't know if any theists still post on these forums. If you are a theist, I hope you'll watch this video and learn about the mindset of atheists who do not challenge your truth claims (which is apparently what you want). For you atheists, if you have theist friends or family who get offended because you express your views at all, perhaps you should show them this video and explain a few things to them.

Here is one theist who does still post occasionally as time permits. I watched the video; not sure it says as much as you think about the mindset of some atheists. This is one man who is explaining his viewpoint and he may not be at all representative of a subset of atheists. He may just be like me and not like to argue when there is no compelling reason for it.

Ruth

Yes, you deign to communicate with we mere atheists as long as none of us are uppity enough to disagree with you. I am so very thankful that you would debase yourself by speaking to one so lowly as myself at all. Everything you believe is correct and true.

- - - Updated - - -

The dude has an ugly view of what human beings...

Yeah, they're all "assholes". As a result of projection, I thought when I listened to him. Like you, I did not last the distance, though I did get to within a minute or so of the end.

Aw, is the poor woman-hating man-baby threatened by people who aren't misogynist? Do you need to go to your safe space at Daily Stormer or Breitbart? Show me on the doll where being exposed to feminist ideas hurt you.

 

[Learner]

I am so very thankful that you would debase yourself by speaking to one so lowly as myself at all.

Underseer ... I've learn't to look passed things like this. I certainly have no problem with you.

As my grandad used to say:

" When the sun is shining there is always a radio somewhere playing happy tunes because... tape gets caught in machines?" (Not exactly sure what he mean't though)

" If you're feeling sad when people call you names,
there's always tomorrow , that they may not notice you"

Its not all bad

 

[Kharakov]

whoops. RT. hahaha.

 

[Ramaraksha]

An eternal social security arrangement if you will. Yes if everything in heaven is immaterial how would anything "work"? I find the concept of never-ending as paradise a bit perplexing. Even with a great view.

Does that make sense, though? Billions of people lazy, doing nothing for eternity? And that is what God wants? "God live on earth a few years and depending on which religion you choose I will either reward you or torture you endlessly?" - how does this make any sense? But it does to billions! Amazing! Spend a useless existence indulging in self-gratification for eternity?

Sometime i have to pinch myself to make sure i am alive and in the 21st century - that we think we are so advanced, so educated and yet fall for these easy ponzi-scheme is beyond amazing!

 

[Hermit]

The dude has an ugly view of what human beings...

Yeah, they're all "assholes". As a result of projection, I thought when I listened to him. Like you, I did not last the distance, though I did get to within a minute or so of the end.

Aw, is the poor woman-hating man-baby threatened by people who aren't misogynist? Do you need to go to your safe space at Daily Stormer or Breitbart? Show me on the doll where being exposed to feminist ideas hurt you.

Whut? I have no idea what brought this on.

 

[Ramaraksha]

He is directly comparing you to a 4 year old child who believe in Santa Claus.

And what is his reasoning for "humoring" the child about belief in Santa? Because he believes it makes the child behave better. Because he believes the child will only behave better with promises of presents just like he thinks you will behave morally only with the promise of heaven and the threat of hell.

The Santa comparison is apt - just like the child lives in a bubble, his ability to understand how the real world works being limited, so-called Adults find the real world distasteful and so fall for the easy and cheap promises of Heaven - God is their ticket to the easy good life - theists spin it as religion gave people hope etc - sure you can spin any kind of yarn and justify it that way. What is amazing is how many people keep falling for this easy promise of the easy good life to be had just by joining the "right" religion. God is like a king, a strongman - will be pleased by you joining "his" religion, basically becoming his subject, his slave, and will now reward you - isn't that wonderful?

 

[fast]

The man said to the child that there's a Santa, and he came across as convincing when speaking to the child, but given everything else he said, he comes across as if he was intentionally disingenuous such that he doesn't believe in Santa.

No Santa Claus? People can truly become true failures when it comes to believing things. How does he think presents make there way to under the Christmas trees? Sad.

There's three stages in life. There's the young blissful time when you're very young and believe in Santa. Second, there is the downward spiral era when youngsters 'learn' there is no Santa. They stay in this warped state often well into adulthood. Many never recover.

Finally, there's the awakening period where a few fortunate souls come to realize they were originally right, just as they were in the dawn of their early years.

 

[Jason the Rationalist]

An eternal social security arrangement if you will. Yes if everything in heaven is immaterial how would anything "work"? I find the concept of never-ending as paradise a bit perplexing. Even with a great view.

Does that make sense, though? Billions of people lazy, doing nothing for eternity? And that is what God wants? "God live on earth a few years and depending on which religion you choose I will either reward you or torture you endlessly?" - how does this make any sense? But it does to billions! Amazing! Spend a useless existence indulging in self-gratification for eternity?

Sometime i have to pinch myself to make sure i am alive and in the 21st century - that we think we are so advanced, so educated and yet fall for these easy ponzi-scheme is beyond amazing!

Indeed. I find the whole thing a bit bizarre. Perhaps some see it as a kind of ethereal revenge-taking exercise. 'Those people made my life a living hell, well I believe they are going to be living in hell once they die but I'll be fine.' The concept of some ultimate ethereal justice doesn't work for me, some unknown chance of it turning out alright after some unsensed transition to somewhere/something else that noone has any experience of. Can someone experience fully this life if at least a part of them is yearning for some invisible potential future that might be "out there" or "in here" or "over there"?

 

[ideologyhunter]

But how many believers are invested in this heaven business beyond the daydream level? The ones who actually have read every, single, page, of the Holy, Friggin', Bible, those are the ones who probably have their time-share address already set in heaven.
And yes it would be borrrrring in heaven. If Robert Schuller is there but Mark Twain isn't, well, doesn't that say it.

 

[Jason the Rationalist]

But how many believers are invested in this heaven business beyond the daydream level? The ones who actually have read every, single, page, of the Holy, Friggin', Bible, those are the ones who probably have their time-share address already set in heaven.
And yes it would be borrrrring in heaven. If Robert Schuller is there but Mark Twain isn't, well, doesn't that say it.

Perhaps Bob would be chilled out and down with the dudes. But yeah, not too promising. If it was in any way a reflection of this existence how would it be rewarding and not just a series of mini-reruns? An eternity of anything would be to my mind an endurance event beyond which one cannot escape and doesn't sound overly creative or original. It raises the interesting question of how is it possible to be rewarded by the concept now of the possibility of something beyond this existence when things can already be imagined which we cannot experience outside of our own minds?

Imagine I could talk to a fox which would then fly off in a hot air balloon powered by raspberry ice cream. That'd be all well and good but now that I've imagined it, if it comes to pass that (i) heaven "exists", (ii) I end up there, (iii) this scenario takes place I wonder whether (i) I'd recall that I'd imagined it or (ii) I wouldn't...in which case if I recalled nothing of my past life wouldn't that mean that heaven could be quite "normal" (if we recalled nothing it wouldn't have to be some incredible, out of this world extravaganza, although it might be)...if that's the case what would the attraction be? If its basic why the excitement? If its mind-blowing what's the point of it being mind-blowing? I hear and read believers talking about god giving meaning to life, an objective, but what would the objective of heaven be?

 

[Underseer]

I am so very thankful that you would debase yourself by speaking to one so lowly as myself at all.

Underseer ... I've learn't to look passed things like this. I certainly have no problem with you.

As my grandad used to say:

" When the sun is shining there is always a radio somewhere playing happy tunes because... tape gets caught in machines?" (Not exactly sure what he mean't though)

" If you're feeling sad when people call you names,
there's always tomorrow , that they may not notice you"

Its not all bad

Wow, you're even more magnanimous than I thought!

Not only am I allowed to speak with you as long as I don't contact anything you say, but on top of that, you don't have a problem with me? I am flummoxed by your grace and humility.

Sir, you truly are a credit to your religion.

 

[Underseer]

Can we please dispense with the wordplay? Just admit that you are doing exactly what I was talking about in the original post. You are offended that atheists are allowed to present contrary views in public, and you wish more of us were like that guy who thinks of you as a toddler whose belief in Santa's Claus must be preserved.

To him, you are a child who just announced "I'm an airplane!" and he's going to humor you because her doesn't think of you as an intellectual equal.

I'm not sure why you would want to be condescended to in this fashion, but then I also don't understand your "magnanimous" shtick.