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Understanding Consciousness: Awareness vs. Attention

And, remember, you still haven't done the assignment I've given you...

Here are the basic elements again...

Clearly, we have to be aware of the picture, of the whole picture, for the brain to work out any interpretative representation.
EB

View attachment 14138

Reality disagrees. Again.

Then think again what that sentence means.

Then, just look, again, at the picture you posted.

See?

No?

Really!?

You do have a problem.
EB

I give a visual counterexample, you give me rhetorical questions and insults. I see very clearly indeed.
<snip>
You keep saying things that are egregiously wrong and I'll keep pointing that out.


So, here is your last chance to redeem yourself. Just think again what that sentence really means.

And then, just take the time to look again, carefully, at the picture you yourself posted.

It's really easy. It's all there.

Remember, it's you're last opportunity to make a good impression.
EB
 
Again, I'm really sorry, but however much I personally sympathise with the Cambridge group, I still don't see how this makes what I said false.

That will be because you cut out the argument in the middle and pretended it didn't happen. As usual. Now what were you saying about intellectual honesty?

I asked you several times now to look again at this sentence of mine you take issue with and explain what's wrong with it. This is what you've not even tried to do and this over now several overlong and mostly irrelevant posts. At which point I guess I can just as well give up. You won't ever reconsider and this make disputation with you just boring and useless. A waste of time.

And, as predicted, it's just more adhominems. Is that really all you are capable of?

SB said:
Still, here are the basic elements again, just in case.


SS said:
While a bloody great chunk of the world's experts in this field have all signed a declaration stating that we do know that animals possess consciousness and went into some detail about precisely why, then the one thing it isn't is controversial.

controversy
n.
1. A dispute, especially a public one, between sides holding opposing views.


And still more evidence that there still is a controversy about animal consciousness, and that it is not even in fact limited to us ordinary folks that have no right to an opinion.


Do you know what ethology is? What a methodological behaviourist is? Tell you what, rather than desperately googling for things you think support your contention, actually try to understand what you are posting before posting it. Ethologists don't care if animals are conscious or have any sort of mental state - their methodology is to study behaviour and avoid teleology in all its forms.

You are simply confusing methodological scruples with ontological ones. It's easy to do.

Now, about that paper by Ned Block that you also didn't understand? Are you going to have a go or pretend it didn't happen?
 
And, remember, you still haven't done the assignment I've given you...

Why should I you never do the ones I set you, and all this is clearly just an exercise in trying to weasel out of something you obviously claimed

Here are the basic elements again...

View attachment 14138

Reality disagrees. Again.

Then think again what that sentence means.

Then, just look, again, at the picture you posted.

See?

No?

Really!?

You do have a problem.
EB

I give a visual counterexample, you give me rhetorical questions and insults. I see very clearly indeed.
<snip>
You keep saying things that are egregiously wrong and I'll keep pointing that out.


So, here is your last chance to redeem yourself. Just think again what that sentence really means.

And then, just take the time to look again, carefully, at the picture you yourself posted.

It's really easy. It's all there.

Remember, it's you're last opportunity to make a good impression.

Right, let's go back and see how slippery this can get.

You asserted that:
SB said:
Usually, there's just one best fit between the one picture and several possible interpretations. In the case of the Necker cube, however, we have two interpretations and none is a best fit. They are strictly equivalent in that respect (maybe there's a very small difference). So, there is immediately a potential for the brain to switch easily between the two interpretations. I think this can happen as a result of either a conscious focus or a subconscious one.

Clearly, we have to be aware of the picture, of the whole picture, for the brain to work out any interpretative representation. And then attention may be described as a conscious focus, focus on a particular detail of the picture, maybe to interpret it differently, causing the switch between equivalent representations. But again, it seems clear the switch can be triggered subconsciously, so that only the result becomes conscious, at least initially.

You are asserting that 'we have to be aware of the picture, of the whole picture, for the brain to work out any interpretative representation'. Your intended meaning is helpfully disambiguated by your next sentence in which you talk about 'focus on a particular detail of the picture'. Demonstrating that the focus is on the picture.

So I gave the standard counter example for this misinterpretation of how the brain processes the necker cube; a picture which isn't the necker cube, which doesn't contain all the information, in which you literally can't be aware of whole picture but that you can't help imagining that you can see the Necker cube even when you quite definitely cannot see the whole picture. This really is Vision 101. You really don't need to be aware of the whole picture to interpret it.

Oh and it's not you're, it's your first impression. The irony was fun, thanks.
 
You are asserting that 'we have to be aware of the picture, of the whole picture, for the brain to work out any interpretative representation'.

We are aware of that entire picture.

There is nothing of it we are missing.

If something is added that is not missing something.
 
You are asserting that 'we have to be aware of the picture, of the whole picture, for the brain to work out any interpretative representation'.

We are aware of that entire picture.

There is nothing of it we are missing.

If something is added that is not missing something.

Brilliant. UM meet SP; a match made in Heaven.
 
You are asserting that 'we have to be aware of the picture, of the whole picture, for the brain to work out any interpretative representation'.

We are aware of that entire picture.

There is nothing of it we are missing.

If something is added that is not missing something.

Brilliant. UM meet SP; a match made in Heaven.

We don't get along that well either.

But that is as far from a rebuttal as there could be.

What exactly are we missing if we are not aware of the entire picture?

What we add is not part of the picture.
 
Brilliant. UM meet SP; a match made in Heaven.

We don't get along that well either.

But that is as far from a rebuttal as there could be.

What exactly are we missing if we are not aware of the entire picture?

What we add is not part of the picture.

It wasn't a rebuttal. Why bother?
 
You are asserting that 'we have to be aware of the picture, of the whole picture, for the brain to work out any interpretative representation'.

We are aware of that entire picture.

There is nothing of it we are missing.

If something is added that is not missing something.

Brilliant. UM meet SP; a match made in Heaven.

Oookay, so, Untermensche just decided to gave the game away.

So, we can't play anymore.

Thanks, thanks so much UM!

We all know you're the best mind of the two. There was really no need to prove how clever you are.

That was all we needed to occupy those dreary Winter days. :(
EB
 
Brilliant. UM meet SP; a match made in Heaven.

We don't get along that well either.

But that is as far from a rebuttal as there could be.

What exactly are we missing if we are not aware of the entire picture?

What we add is not part of the picture.

You won't ever get a reply to that.

I will have told you. :p
EB
 
You are asserting that 'we have to be aware of the picture, of the whole picture, for the brain to work out any interpretative representation'.

We are aware of that entire picture.

There is nothing of it we are missing.

If something is added that is not missing something.

Right. Exactly.

Was it difficult, do you think? On a scale from 1 to 5, how difficult would you say it was?
EB
 
You are asserting that 'we have to be aware of the picture, of the whole picture, for the brain to work out any interpretative representation'.

We are aware of that entire picture.

There is nothing of it we are missing.

If something is added that is not missing something.

Brilliant. UM meet SP; a match made in Heaven.

There you are. You had all the time to figure it out by yourself. I asked you repeatedly to look at it again.

But, no, you didn't want to see.

And now it's too late.
EB
 
That will be because you cut out the argument in the middle and pretended it didn't happen. As usual. Now what were you saying about intellectual honesty?

<snip>

You are simply confusing methodological scruples with ontological ones. It's easy to do.

Now, about that paper by Ned Block that you also didn't understand? Are you going to have a go or pretend it didn't happen?

This is all irrelevant.

The only issue here is whether you understand the meaning of "controversial".
EB
 
Now, about that paper by Ned Block that you also didn't understand? Are you going to have a go or pretend it didn't happen?

Sorry, I'm not a specialist.

All I have is my own private eye-witness account.

Who is this Ned bloke anyway?


I guess it would be all in there, right?

SS said:
and access consciousness, which refers to the global availability of information to processing systems in the brain.[60] Phenomenal consciousness has many different experienced qualities, often referred to as qualia. Phenomenal consciousness is usually consciousness of something or about something, a property known as intentionality in philosophy of mind.[60]
So having demonstrated that you really don't understand the sources you are using, it's your turn - I've talked about Ned Block's distinction between access and phenomenal consciousness before, but it's clearly a distinction that you don't understand. As such, I'd be delighted if you can explain how the quote above, or indeed the paper it comes from:

http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/f...5_Function.pdf

counts as an objection to the Cambridge position - which is that animals have what Block Calls 'P' or 'phenomenal' consciousness. I know that this is something you cannot do for two entirely separate reasons, so I look forward to an ad hominem or two instead.

I'm not a specialist but, still, I'm familiar with the distinction between phenomenal and access consciousness.

As a matter of fact, there's a similar distinction concerning knowledge.

Still, I happen to disagree somewhat with the notion that aboutness would be a necessary fixture of phenomenal consciousness. I would agree it usually is, it clearly normally is, but not necessarily, no. It can happen that you would be conscious without that it be of anything, no even yourself.

Just my own experience, an eye-witness account, if you like.

That's all irrelevant, though, as to your question.

But I'm certainly not going to waste my time on that.

Anyway, it's still somewhat relevant. The hard problem of consciousness isn't about the intentionality of consciousness. And if it's not, then it has to be about something else. So, now, the question is, given non-human animals necessarily have awareness, whether it also features this which makes consciousness the hard problem to solve.

That's what I think motivates the sceptics to disagree that animals possess consciousness.

That's also something we're unable to solve now. Not even scientists. Not even your Cambridge club.

And, ultimately, that why I said "we didn't know" who's right.

See, that's quite a lot you just missed even though it was all there for you to see.

You should try what elephants can manage without batting an eyelid, i.e. look into the mirror and see whether you see someone there.
EB
 
Clearly it has been shown she can attend to several things at a given point in time whilst it is just as well demonstrated that she is aware of only one of those attendings...

Before I try to respond to this, can you identify the antecedent for the pronoun "she"? I find it a little hard to follow your point, because I keep wondering who you are talking about. And are you responding to my post or unter's? I'm guessing that you may have edited the text and inadvertently deleted the antecedent reference.

I believe she appeared at a recent equality convention.
 
This thread has pretty much wound itself down, but I did want to add a few more comments. I hope that I've managed to tease apart the difference between awareness and attention, because I think that the latter is the most important aspect of what we normally refer to as "consciousness". Attention can be construed as the process of foregrounding, and attention/foregrounding is the primary cognitive tool that we use to resolve ambiguous perceptual illusions. It allows us to interpret sensations in terms of a mental model.

My understanding of the somewhat prickly interchange between subsymbolic and speakpigeon was that they were arguing over what causes attention to shift. For example, what makes one of the two illusory 3D Necker "cubes" to pop out as an interpretation of the 2D image. My take on that is that the primary driver is emotion. We have no control over emotions and moods in the moment, and that aspect of cognition is essentially what drives our so-called "free will". They determine our goals. Emotional conflicts determine conflicting priorities. Strength of emotion determines priorities. Nothing about making choices or decisions is random or "free" in terms of the philosophical debate over determinism. In fact, we can add physical substances, e.g. alcohol, to the brain that change our emotional state and the choices we make. In free will debates, it is an interesting question to address what is "free" about people acting under the influence of drugs and drug addiction.
 
This thread has pretty much wound itself down, but I did want to add a few more comments.

Nothing like a few more comments to revive a dead corpse.

I hope that I've managed to tease apart the difference between awareness and attention, because I think that the latter is the most important aspect of what we normally refer to as "consciousness".

Already you're going to fast here. The most important aspect of consciousness depends on what we mean by consciousness to begin with.

You will be aware of the distinction between the easy and the hard problems of consciousness. I think you would need to start from that.

So, I think that if we restrict our attention to the easy-enough-to-understand aspect of consciousness, which I think is precisely awareness, then, unsurprisingly, it suddenly looks much easier to understand.

So, awareness, strictly identified as a form of knowledge, knowledge of some species of data, perhaps broadly what Russell called "sense-data", what I would myself rather call "mental data", then attention can be construed as the way the mind, or the brain, focuses awareness on a particular batch of mental data.

That has to be a very important aspect of awareness and of how our mind works, but whether that's the "most important" would be debatable. Unfortunately, this thread "has pretty much wound itself down".

Attention can be construed as the process of foregrounding, and attention/foregrounding is the primary cognitive tool that we use to resolve ambiguous perceptual illusions. It allows us to interpret sensations in terms of a mental model.

Our mental life contains all sorts of things beside sensations. For example, ideas, memories and impressions. And our attention can focus on those as well.

If only illusions can be ambiguous, then there's nothing for the mind to resolve. So, better drop the word "illusion" here.

Also, "resolve" is just a little bit too optimistic. I would rather say that the mind decides on, or the brain produces, a particular interpretation. And, clearly, if it's the wrong interpretation, then nothing will be resolved. And we do sometimes choose the wrong interpretation, especially when our brain has started going down the drain.

And, I'm also unsure as to whether attention is really required to this process of deciding on, or producing, interpretations. I would for example be confortable with the idea that the brain comes up with one interpretation through an unconscious process. I suspect that's what happens most of the time. Sounds economical, and economy is rather critical, I think, to the way the brain works.

That being said, attention is definitely a fact of our mental life. It happens. Our attention will shift from one thing to another. Something we were barely aware of will suddenly become "the focus of our attention", and we will normally become very aware of it.

So, possibly, attention is just the way the brain optimises its operations. Low awareness for most things to be economical, and then there's some kind of a problem and the brain suddenly diverts most of it energy onto it. Sounds effective to me, and effectiveness, I think, would be pretty critical to the way the brain has to work.

My understanding of the somewhat prickly interchange between subsymbolic and speakpigeon was that they were arguing over what causes attention to shift.

I'd would love to see where you got this idea. Could you for example provide the relevant quotes? I think I doubt that very much.

As I see it, some people just don't read too well what's just written on the page in front of their very eyes. It is nothing more then the misinterpretation of one word. I'd say, most people would do well to learn their English properly.

For example, what makes one of the two illusory 3D Necker "cubes" to pop out as an interpretation of the 2D image. My take on that is that the primary driver is emotion. We have no control over emotions and moods in the moment, and that aspect of cognition is essentially what drives our so-called "free will". They determine our goals. Emotional conflicts determine conflicting priorities. Strength of emotion determines priorities.

I'd rather doubt emotion is the kingpin you portray here. No doubt emotion is very important and that it has an operational role in our mental lives. But I think you are really extending the scope of our ordinary notion of emotion. As I see it, an emotion is something I can feel, something I am aware of, and if interpretations are produced by the brain through an unconscious process, then emotions don't play a part at all at this level.

Where emotions could still play a part may be in selecting between two interpretations, but only once they're out there in our awareness space. Once we have competing interpretations, maybe an emotion will make us decide which one is to be preferred, particularly if we allow very low-level emotions to be taken into account. That would make sense to me, yes.

Still, situations where we have competing interpretations to choose from seem to be pretty rare in our daily lives, which, again, seems to me to be rather a good thing and pretty critical to our survival in a complex environment.

Nothing about making choices or decisions is random or "free" in terms of the philosophical debate over determinism. In fact, we can add physical substances, e.g. alcohol, to the brain that change our emotional state and the choices we make. In free will debates, it is an interesting question to address what is "free" about people acting under the influence of drugs and drug addiction.

Free will is what people mean when they talk of having free will.
EB
 
Attention and Awareness Aren’t The Same https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/attention-and-awareness-arent-the-same.html
Paying attention to something and being aware of it seem like the same thing -they both involve somehow knowing the thing is there. However, a new study, which will be published in an upcoming issue of Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, finds that these are actually separate; your brain can pay attention to something without you being aware that it’s there.

“We wanted to ask, can things attract your attention even when you don’t see them at all?” Usually, when people pay attention to something, they also become aware of it; in fact, many psychologists assume these two concepts are inextricably linked. But more evidence has suggested that’s not the case.

If you are a perceptual or sensory psychologist you know you are always processing certain signals even though you are not aware they are even there. These range from internal sensing such as those associated with metabolism, oxygen levels, neural ion states, blood flow, heart rate, etc, and from senses that are not processing what the eyes are pointed towards, or at night, those senses that are on all the time like touch, taste, odor, and hearing. There seems to be a large distinction between what I just wrote and what philosophers writing on these thread chose to call attention and awareness.

It may just be me, but, I'm pretty sure we attend to signals of which we are obviously not aware. Put simply, we are not aware of something unless we can reliably say operationally 'yes it is there' at some criterion above chance levels whereas we attend to everything passing though those channels even when we' aren't sure there is anything there else we'd never be in position to respond 'yes it is there'.

Also emotion is another boat on which I wouldn't pin my hopes for awareness as Bard and Canon pointed out nearly 100 years ago. Again scientists have spent about 120 years defining and laying out the boundaries of awareness (Williams and Elfner among many, many ,others), arousal (Moruzzi and Magoun), attention (an entire discipline in neuroscience) and consciousness (Crick).

So, rather than arguing past each other with moving goal posts, I suggest we adhere to 'scientific' criteria when laying down our scent marks on these terms.

On to what illusions tell us about how we perceive, think, and organize the world later. Hint: it comes down to trades at boundaries between domains like duration-frequency edge-boundary-motion, and other interesting aspects of the sensed world we codify into perceptions sentences and scenes.

just sayin'
 
Nothing like a few more comments to revive a dead corpse.

Already you're going to fast here. The most important aspect of consciousness depends on what we mean by consciousness to begin with.

You will be aware of the distinction between the easy and the hard problems of consciousness. I think you would need to start from that.

Hard vs Easy problem: I would rather avoid going down the Chalmers rabbit hole. That's where discussions of consciousness go to die. I'm more interested in working on the problem rather than throwing up my hands and walking away. I haven't defined "consciousness", because it can refer to so many different aspects of human cognition. We could spend forever debating its usage. I would rather try to deconstruct it, and terms like "awareness" and "attention" help us to do that.

So, I think that if we restrict our attention to the easy-enough-to-understand aspect of consciousness, which I think is precisely awareness, then, unsurprisingly, it suddenly looks much easier to understand.

So, awareness, strictly identified as a form of knowledge, knowledge of some species of data, perhaps broadly what Russell called "sense-data", what I would myself rather call "mental data", then attention can be construed as the way the mind, or the brain, focuses awareness on a particular batch of mental data.

That has to be a very important aspect of awareness and of how our mind works, but whether that's the "most important" would be debatable. Unfortunately, this thread "has pretty much wound itself down".
OK, so here's where you fundamentally misunderstood what I said. I said that ATTENTION, not AWARENESS, was the most important aspect of consciousness. Attention (an act of foregrounding or highlighting) plays a role in motor, as well as sensory, behavior. It is the mechanism that allows us to resolve ambiguous perceptions such as optical illusions. If you want to understand how consciousness emerges in the machine that we call a "brain", then you need to pay attention to attention.

Attention can be construed as the process of foregrounding, and attention/foregrounding is the primary cognitive tool that we use to resolve ambiguous perceptual illusions. It allows us to interpret sensations in terms of a mental model.

Our mental life contains all sorts of things beside sensations. For example, ideas, memories and impressions. And our attention can focus on those as well.
Did I say or even hint otherwise?

If only illusions can be ambiguous, then there's nothing for the mind to resolve. So, better drop the word "illusion" here.
Where did I say that "only illusions can be ambiguous"? I was using a common optical illusion to explain how foregrounding resolved the ambiguity. No need to read something more into it.

Also, "resolve" is just a little bit too optimistic. I would rather say that the mind decides on, or the brain produces, a particular interpretation. And, clearly, if it's the wrong interpretation, then nothing will be resolved. And we do sometimes choose the wrong interpretation, especially when our brain has started going down the drain.
Well, you do "see" two different cubes in the Necker illusion, don't you? You don't see them simultaneously, but sequentially. Your perception shifts between the two visual interpretations. When it shifts, that is ambiguity resolution. To say that "the mind decides on" or "the brain produces" is somewhat trivially true, so why would you "rather" not talk about the awareness/attention dichotomy that has been the topic under discussion?

And, I'm also unsure as to whether attention is really required to this process of deciding on, or producing, interpretations. I would for example be confortable with the idea that the brain comes up with one interpretation through an unconscious process. I suspect that's what happens most of the time. Sounds economical, and economy is rather critical, I think, to the way the brain works.
Well, hold on there. The brain does a lot of "unconscious" things all at once. Attention, awareness, and volition are cognitive processes in a mind, and brains produce minds. So it is trivial to keep using "brain" as a metonymy substitution for "mind". That does not help us understand how cognition works. It is more helpful to establish the behavior of cognitive components of consciousness, if we are truly interested in understanding what it means for a physical machine such as a brain to produce it.

That being said, attention is definitely a fact of our mental life. It happens. Our attention will shift from one thing to another. Something we were barely aware of will suddenly become "the focus of our attention", and we will normally become very aware of it.

So, possibly, attention is just the way the brain optimises its operations. Low awareness for most things to be economical, and then there's some kind of a problem and the brain suddenly diverts most of it energy onto it. Sounds effective to me, and effectiveness, I think, would be pretty critical to the way the brain has to work.
OK, now we are roughly on the same page, although I still think it would be more helpful to say "mind" rather than "brain" at this point. It isn't necessary to keep pointing out that there is a physical basis for minds. Take that as a given.

My understanding of the somewhat prickly interchange between subsymbolic and speakpigeon was that they were arguing over what causes attention to shift.

I'd would love to see where you got this idea. Could you for example provide the relevant quotes? I think I doubt that very much.

As I see it, some people just don't read too well what's just written on the page in front of their very eyes. It is nothing more then the misinterpretation of one word. I'd say, most people would do well to learn their English properly.
Yes, well that can probably be said of everyone, including yourself. That may be why you seem to have missed some of the points I've been making. As for explaining where I got that impression from, that is a debate not worth having here. It was just my subjective impression from some of the comments you and he made regarding what triggered the dispute. Dismiss it, if you like.

For example, what makes one of the two illusory 3D Necker "cubes" to pop out as an interpretation of the 2D image. My take on that is that the primary driver is emotion. We have no control over emotions and moods in the moment, and that aspect of cognition is essentially what drives our so-called "free will". They determine our goals. Emotional conflicts determine conflicting priorities. Strength of emotion determines priorities.

I'd rather doubt emotion is the kingpin you portray here. No doubt emotion is very important and that it has an operational role in our mental lives. But I think you are really extending the scope of our ordinary notion of emotion. As I see it, an emotion is something I can feel, something I am aware of, and if interpretations are produced by the brain through an unconscious process, then emotions don't play a part at all at this level.
Well, yes, I am using "emotion" in a rather vague, broad sense here. There are lots of different kinds of emotional experiences. Is hunger an emotion? I would say so. So is anger. So is sleepiness. Anything that produces a desire or need is an emotion.

You don't consider emotion to be what moves us in everything we do? I do, and I would ask you to consider the possiblity that it is what is "directing the flashlight" of attention. IMO, it is our prime mover. We don't consciously control emotions. They are just reactions, and they can conflict with each other. The relative strengths of emotion organize and prioritize our behavior.

Where emotions could still play a part may be in selecting between two interpretations, but only once they're out there in our awareness space. Once we have competing interpretations, maybe an emotion will make us decide which one is to be preferred, particularly if we allow very low-level emotions to be taken into account. That would make sense to me, yes.
Good. That is exactly the point I was trying to make. What emotion causes us to decide which square in the Necker cube should be construed as the front of the cube? For me, that is an interesting question.

Still, situations where we have competing interpretations to choose from seem to be pretty rare in our daily lives, which, again, seems to me to be rather a good thing and pretty critical to our survival in a complex environment.
On the contrary, I think that competing interpretations occur at many levels of consciousness. We are constantly revising our interpretation of reality and are seldom aware of how fluid our grasp of it is. As you say, it is pretty critical to our survival.

Nothing about making choices or decisions is random or "free" in terms of the philosophical debate over determinism. In fact, we can add physical substances, e.g. alcohol, to the brain that change our emotional state and the choices we make. In free will debates, it is an interesting question to address what is "free" about people acting under the influence of drugs and drug addiction.

Free will is what people mean when they talk of having free will.
EB
Yes, well, that's just what I was doing.
 
Attention and Awareness Aren’t The Same https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/attention-and-awareness-arent-the-same.html
Paying attention to something and being aware of it seem like the same thing -they both involve somehow knowing the thing is there. However, a new study, which will be published in an upcoming issue of Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, finds that these are actually separate; your brain can pay attention to something without you being aware that it’s there.

[FONT=&]“We wanted to ask, can things attract your attention even when you don’t see them at all?” Usually, when people pay attention to something, they also become aware of it; in fact, many psychologists assume these two concepts are inextricably linked. But more evidence has suggested that’s not the case.[/FONT]

If you are a perceptual or sensory psychologist you know you are always processing certain signals even though you are not aware they are even there. These range from internal sensing such as those associated with metabolism, oxygen levels, neural ion states, blood flow, heart rate, etc, and from senses that are not processing what the eyes are pointed towards, or at night, those senses that are on all the time like touch, taste, odor, and hearing. There seems to be a large distinction between what I just wrote and what philosophers writing on these thread chose to call attention and awareness.

It may just be me, but, I'm pretty sure we attend to signals of which we are obviously not aware. Put simply, we are not aware of something unless we can reliably say operationally 'yes it is there' at some criterion above chance levels whereas we attend to everything passing though those channels even when we' aren't sure there is anything there else we'd never be in position to respond 'yes it is there'.

Also emotion is another boat on which I wouldn't pin my hopes for awareness as Bard and Canon pointed out nearly 100 years ago. Again scientists have spent about 120 years defining and laying out the boundaries of awareness (Williams and Elfner among many, many ,others), arousal (Moruzzi and Magoun), attention (an entire discipline in neuroscience) and consciousness (Crick).

So, rather than arguing past each other with moving goal posts, I suggest we adhere to 'scientific' criteria when laying down our scent marks on these terms.

On to what illusions tell us about how we perceive, think, and organize the world later. Hint: it comes down to trades at boundaries between domains like duration-frequency edge-boundary-motion, and other interesting aspects of the sensed world we codify into perceptions sentences and scenes.

just sayin'

Thank you for that, fromder. That article underscores everything I have been trying to say here. The distinction between attention and awareness is the basis of the OP and the thread title.
 
Hard vs Easy problem: I would rather avoid going down the Chalmers rabbit hole. That's where discussions of consciousness go to die. I'm more interested in working on the problem rather than throwing up my hands and walking away. I haven't defined "consciousness", because it can refer to so many different aspects of human cognition. We could spend forever debating its usage. I would rather try to deconstruct it, and terms like "awareness" and "attention" help us to do that.

My point was precisely that it should be good enough to discuss awareness without pretending we would be talking about consciousness. Let's leave aside consciousness and with it the hard problem. But you can't seriously go on pretending to discuss consciousness if you leave aside the hard problem.

And so I don't think you can "deconstruct" consciousness in terms of awareness and attention. First because, again, there's the hard problem and to deconstruct at all you'd need to start from that. Second, attention is just what we call our highest level of awareness, so I think. That is, attention is not something coming on top of, or beside, awareness. It's a modality of awareness. Again, that sounds like the economical way for the brain to do that sort of things.

I will focus my attention on the rest later.
EB
 
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