The religion of "no beginning".

[untermensche]

You are equating infinity with reality.

Absurd.

How is it possible this imaginary concept called infinity is real?

If somebody told me some imaginary concept was real they would need to prove it.

Mathematicians invented the concept of imaginary number too.

Are imaginary numbers real?

For fucks sake! This entire is about a statement YOU made. Thus it is up to you to prove that time cannot have been going on for ever.

The only argument you have come up with is that ”it could since nothing could have traversed an infinite interval in finite time”
And you have uttrrly failed to show what this argument has to do with the original question.

Things " going on forever" implies an infinity has been completed. It is saying that infinite time already happened.

An infinity cannot happen. It can never happen.

It is an imaginary concept that could not possibly exist in reality.

What makes you think it is possible an infinity completed at the present?

Prove imaginary concepts can take life and actually exist.

 

[untermensche]

You are equating infinity with reality.

Absurd.

No, it's very easy to see I wasn't equating infinity and reality.

Everybody can understand that. Not you apparently.


This shows you're asking questions you don't even understand yourself.

It also shows you have a really serious problem in terms of your understanding, not only of English, but of reality itself. I doubt this forum, or any forum, could improve your condition.

Your reply also definitely shows it's not possible to have any sensible conversation with you. You're a complete waste of time. You are a complete waste of time.
EB

All you did was switch the word infinity with reality.

It was about the worst "argument" I have ever seen.

 

[Kharakov]

Reality doesn't care if you find something absurd. Goodness knows quantum physics proved that.

No it didn't.

It proved jack asses, trolls, and the uneducated will interpret statistics to mean whatever they want the statistics to mean, even if there is classical level phenomena that indicate that something completely different is going on.

 

[Lion IRC]

Past eternity and infinity are a metaphysical possibility.
Something and nothing likewise are possible states of existence/non-existence.

Apparent absurdity can make it awkward for us to process such descriptions of reality. But I don't think you can defeat one absurd metaphysic by proposing (imposing) an alternative metaphysic...namely, that if you can't traverse infinity then infinity is impossible.

Nobody in this thread is disputing the definition of infinity/eternity. Everybody agrees you can't reach the finish line. Why the need to quibble about where the hamster is going?

 

[untermensche]

Are imaginary numbers a "metaphysical possibility" too?

Is anything we invent from thin air a "metaphysical possibility"?

Infinity cannot possibly exist.

It is not a real concept. To try to apply it to reality is like trying to apply an imaginary number to reality.

It makes no sense.

 

[Lion IRC]

Imaginary numbers are abstract.
We understand them to be 'imaginary'.
We don't impose artificial, requisite, necessary states of their 'existence'.
We dont need to.

But here we are talking about whether infinite/eternal reality is really real - whether it's possible.

 

[untermensche]

Infinity is abstract.

It is totally imaginary.

It is such a concept that cannot possibly exist.

You cannot have an infinity of something. It is not an amount.

Any amount of something real would have to be finite.

 

[Lion IRC]

William Lane Craig Q&A page once recounted how questions about the nature of existence/reality can be dealt with.

Student : Does reality really exist?
WLC : Who wants to know?

 

[Speakpigeon]

All I can reasonably infer from that is that you don't like my suggestion.

Well, you suck at inference then.

Ah, yes, that's right, absolutely.

And I suck at making very simple inferences because I can only do reasonable inferences, somewhat unlike many people round here, and elsewhere, who come up with inferences by the shitload you don't know what to make of them.

So, yes, that's right, I suck at inference, absolutely. I'm proud of that, too, definitely.

It's a good idea to show the philosophical incompleteness of scientific thought

Nothing to do with science. We (nearly all of us) have brains big enough to compartmentalise things. Science is science and speculation is speculation.

Now, it just so happened that saying the world has always existed is really just speculation.

You also disregarded my request: "Proper arguments, please."

You know there is no "proper" argument against that position.

Well, I certainly believe so. Still, I would have loved it if you could have proved me wrong. No luck there. Business as usual. I live in a very predictable world.

Even though all evidence in the universe points to "something always existed"

No. Perhaps some evidence may point to that, and again, provided some highly theoretical science is really as good as you think.

And, of course, my conjecture can only be entirely immune from that sort of things.

There is no argument against last Tuesdayism

Exactly.

I'm really pleased you should at last admit to it.

It did take you quite a lot of time to get there, though. It is as if you thought you had all the eternity in front of you. I certainly don't myself. You should think of us mere mortals and keep it short.

The point is, there are eternals that everything arose from (even Groundhog Day)....

I certainly wouldn't want to break your metaphysical idols. So, amen to that!
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

You are equating infinity with reality.

Absurd.

No, it's very easy to see I wasn't equating infinity and reality.

Everybody can understand that. Not you apparently.


This shows you're asking questions you don't even understand yourself.

It also shows you have a really serious problem in terms of your understanding, not only of English, but of reality itself. I doubt this forum, or any forum, could improve your condition.

Your reply also definitely shows it's not possible to have any sensible conversation with you. You're a complete waste of time. You are a complete waste of time.
EB

All you did was switch the word infinity with reality.

It was about the worst "argument" I have ever seen.

Your case definitely seems even worse than I originally thought.

You're a complete television, without the box.
EB

 

[Lion IRC]

Infinity is abstract.

It is totally imaginary.

It is such a concept that cannot possibly exist.

You cannot have an infinity of something. It is not an amount.

Any amount of something real would have to be finite.

Aren't you just struggling with the language?

Saying... "you can't count an infinite number of jelly beans" simply means you won't ever be able to stop counting. It doesn't mean it's imposible to perform the act of counting.

We COULD stumble across a person who was counting jelly beans and had been doing so forever. They might have even been counting the exact same single jelly bean over and over and over again. That's not metaphysically impossible. Gonzo yes. But not impossible.

 

[ruby sparks]

William Lane Craig Q&A page once recounted how questions about the nature of existence/reality can be dealt with.

Student : Does reality really exist?
WLC : Who wants to know?

I love William Lane Craig and want to have his babies.

 

[bilby]

Are imaginary numbers a "metaphysical possibility" too?

Is anything we invent from thin air a "metaphysical possibility"?

Infinity cannot possibly exist.

It is not a real concept. To try to apply it to reality is like trying to apply an imaginary number to reality.

It makes no sense.

Reality isn't under any obligation to make sense to you.

Imaginary numbers are very useful in understanding reality - but it is clear that you don't know or care about what an 'imaginary number' is, or for that matter about any of reality outside your own pet delusions.

While you rant about how none of this is possible, useful, or real, there are smart people out there doing real things with it that really improve your real life. That you cannot even comprehend this is very disappointing; But not surprising.

You are truly pathetic.

 

[Lion IRC]

Piss off bilby
Take your #flaming ad hom schtick somewhere else.

 

[untermensche]

Infinity is abstract.

It is totally imaginary.

It is such a concept that cannot possibly exist.

You cannot have an infinity of something. It is not an amount.

Any amount of something real would have to be finite.

Aren't you just struggling with the language?

Saying... "you can't count an infinite number of jelly beans" simply means you won't ever be able to stop counting. It doesn't mean it's imposible to perform the act of counting.

We COULD stumble across a person who was counting jelly beans and had been doing so forever. They might have even been counting the exact same single jelly bean over and over and over again. That's not metaphysically impossible. Gonzo yes. But not impossible.

I am not struggling with anything.

It is not possible to have an infinity of jelly beans.

Every jelly bean is a finite thing. No matter how many you have it will be a finite amount.

You can never not have a finite amount.

 

[untermensche]

Are imaginary numbers a "metaphysical possibility" too?

Is anything we invent from thin air a "metaphysical possibility"?

Infinity cannot possibly exist.

It is not a real concept. To try to apply it to reality is like trying to apply an imaginary number to reality.

It makes no sense.

Reality isn't under any obligation to make sense to you.

Imaginary numbers are very useful in understanding reality - but it is clear that you don't know or care about what an 'imaginary number' is, or for that matter about any of reality outside your own pet delusions.

While you rant about how none of this is possible, useful, or real, there are smart people out there doing real things with it that really improve your real life. That you cannot even comprehend this is very disappointing; But not surprising.

You are truly pathetic.

You change the goalposts quickly.

I never said the way we have devised to use the concepts of infinity or imaginary numbers is not useful.

I have said infinity is an imaginary concept that has no connection to the real world.

In the real world only finite amounts are possible. No matter how large the amount it will always be finite.

Infinity is not something that can possibly exist.

It is a totally imaginary idea.

 

[Lion IRC]

That's as much as to say 'the past' doesn't exist.
But yesterday did really happen - right?

 

[untermensche]

That's as much as to say 'the past' doesn't exist.
But yesterday did really happen - right?

The past does not exist.

It is time that did exist.

But it is impossible that infinite time already existed.

Infinity is not a grand total. It is not an amount.

When we say there are infinite fractions between zero and one we are saying there is no grand total of the number of fractions. It is not an amount of fractions. All amounts are finite. All amounts of anything real are finite.

It is not something that could possibly exist.

 

[bilby]

Are imaginary numbers a "metaphysical possibility" too?

Is anything we invent from thin air a "metaphysical possibility"?

Infinity cannot possibly exist.

It is not a real concept. To try to apply it to reality is like trying to apply an imaginary number to reality.

It makes no sense.

Reality isn't under any obligation to make sense to you.

Imaginary numbers are very useful in understanding reality - but it is clear that you don't know or care about what an 'imaginary number' is, or for that matter about any of reality outside your own pet delusions.

While you rant about how none of this is possible, useful, or real, there are smart people out there doing real things with it that really improve your real life. That you cannot even comprehend this is very disappointing; But not surprising.

You are truly pathetic.

You change the goalposts quickly.

I never said the way we have devised to use the concepts of infinity or imaginary numbers is not useful.

I have said infinity is an imaginary concept that has no connection to the real world.

In the real world only finite amounts are possible. No matter how large the amount it will always be finite.

Infinity is not something that can possibly exist.

It is a totally imaginary idea.

It's a useful idea; and it couldn't be useful if it were unrelated to reality.

You are completely wrong.

 

[Kharakov]

Past eternity and infinity are a metaphysical possibility.
Something and nothing likewise are possible states of existence/non-existence.

Apparent absurdity can make it awkward for us to process such descriptions of reality. But I don't think you can defeat one absurd metaphysic by proposing (imposing) an alternative metaphysic...namely, that if you can't traverse infinity then infinity is impossible.

Nobody in this thread is disputing the definition of infinity/eternity. Everybody agrees you can't reach the finish line. Why the need to quibble about where the hamster is going?

View attachment 14678

Which one is unter?