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Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

As for lacking "positive ID", that's bullshit. The police report on the robbery specificly identifies brown. And even so, if we are to think it's not Brown who robbed the store, how is it that identical twins of Brown and his buddy Johnson just happened to rob a store nearby on the same day?
conceded on the point, but still completely irrelevant.

explain to me how swiping some cigarettes in any way, shape, or form has anything to do with a cop shooting down a person, when the cop had no idea that the theft has occurred and at no point during the incident was it ever a factor?
explain to me how that theft has anything to do with the circumstances leading to his death.
 
Prideandfall : according to the Chief of Police, Officer Wilson was contacted by radio dispatch and informed about a strong arm robbery with a description of the suspect to include which direction he took on foot after leaving the store (information given by the store clerk). Officer Wilson then proceeded in his patrol car towards that direction and would have intercepted Brown.However, if an interception would have been justified, what remains unjustified is the use of lethal force Officer Wilson relied on after his altercation with Brown which resulted in Brown's death.

A legal analysis interviewed this a.m mentioned that a court had validated the right for LEOs to pursue and "shoot in the back a fleeing felon". The felon being unarmed remaining irrelevant. Problem with applying such court decision to Officer Wilson pursued shooting of an unarmed suspect is that Officer Wilson did NOT witness the robbery. He acted only on second hand information describing a suspect. He had no confirmation whatsoever that the suspect he attempted to apprehend was in fact the "felon".

If such court decision were to be invoked to justified Officer Wilson shooting several times Brown, IMO it would not fly and that because Brown was only a suspect.

Then of course there is the question about why Officer Wilson and other responding Officers to the scene after Brown was shot several times did absolutely nothing to check on Brown as he had obviously collapsed on the ground with severe shot wounds. The Chief of Police mentioned that an ambulance which was near by responding to another call was then dispatched at the scene. However he gave NO timeline as to when the ambulance arrived on the scene and which medical attention was given to Brown. Even though he gave a specific timeline about the preceding events. Tiffany Mitchell when asked if anyone attended Brown right after the shooting, responded that no one did. Asked further if an ambulance came and how long after the shooting, she reported "about 30 to 40 minutes".

Then, the Chief of police mention of Officer Wilson having sustained "several injuries" he had to be treated for. No specifics whatsoever. At this point, the mention of "several injuries" is expected to confirm that Officer Wilson was attacked by Brown. While Brown defending himself and trying to break lose from Wilson, still sitting in his car, is somehow to be forgotten. Keeping in mind that the first shot was fired by Officer Wilson while he was still in his vehicle.

Then, why in the world would a Police Officer attempting to apprehend a suspect while he is still in his vehicle? Is that the kind of protocol or logistics LEOs are trained to apply in a situation where they identify as a suspect an individual who is walking? Do trained LEOs really attempt to apprehend a walking suspect by pulling up to them in their vehicle and engaging in whichever communication signifying an imminent arrest?
 
In Ferguson, whites without warrants against them are 25% MORE LIKELY to be searched than blacks without warrants against them. So, the searches disproportionately target whites. As for number of stops, the vast majority of "extra" stops (those that exceed what is predicted by % of the population) are shown as due to "license", meaning that the cops run the plate and it is either not registered, registered to a different car, or has warrants against it due to unpaid violations. IOW, things that cops have the least discretion in whether they pull the car over, and things involving objective evidence of criminal wrong doing. And again, the cops are required to arrest for outstanding warrants, the majority of arrests list "warrants" as the sole reason, and the majority of searches list "incident to arrest" as the reason for the search, meaning that the search was part of the standard procedure that occurs when a person is arrested. If the greater stops were due largely due to race, then the cops would find greater subjective excuses to search black once stopped (meaning things other than objective existence of warrants that require and arrests). Yet the data show just the opposite, that the cops find more non-warrant excuses for searching whites.


Drug use rates have zero relevance to the data at hand, since suspected drug use is not the reason for hardly any of the vehicle stops or searches in question. The disproportionate numbers come largely from stops due to improper license plates or warrants, and the majority of searches are just part of the person being arrested for an outstanding warrant.
If you want to change the discussion to searches of pedestrians in "stop and frisk" laws in NYC, then that is a whole different ball of wax. But even there, drug use rates are not highly relevant, because drug dealing is a more common target of enforcement and drug dealing is very far from proportionate among whites and blacks. Yet, there could very well be evidence of racial profiling in the stop and frisk data in NYC. I'm am only pointing out that the vehicle stop and search and arrest data offered by Toni and AA as "evidence" of racial profiling by Ferguson cops does not support that conclusion and is in fact inconsistent with that conclusion, because unless you have previously committed a crime for which you have an outstanding warrant, you are less likely to be searched when pulled over for any other reason.

I'm not sure if these numbers cleanly disaggregate - but I've done some back of the napkin calculations and discounting the 'license' stops the disparity index is still .44 and 1.36 respectively. Calculating searches per stop, while discounting arrests for warrants, I still figure about 6% and 9% respectively.

9% searches without an outstanding warrant for blacks is quite clearly wrong, because 12% of blacks that are stopped are searched, and 8% (2/3 of those searched) of blacks that are stopped are arrested for pre-existing outstanding warrants. Arrests inherently entail searches and the numbers show that about 70% of searches of blacks occur as a result of an already in-process arrest (mostly for warrants). That only leaves about 1/3 of searches being due to factors other than an outstanding warrant.

You have to subtract the number of those with warrants from the number searched, for each race. For blacks, that means 562 - 369 = 193. And for Whites, 47 - 14 = 33. Then you divide these by the total number of stops for each group (also subtracting the warrants from the number of stops). For blacks that means 193 / (4632 - 369) = .045 or 4.5%. For whites that means 33 / (686 -14) = .049 or 4.9%. This gives you the % of stops that lead to searches, where the was no warrant. I had done them in my head with rounding but my earlier 4% versus 5% is pretty close to 4.5% versus 4.9%. Either way, whites are searched in a higher % of stops without warrants. Also, among drivers without warrants, the arrest rate is higher for whites (3.3%) than blacks (2.7%).


Nor am I sure that your interpretation of the necessity is valid. That is to say, the police still have wide discretion whether to even run someone's plates.
Sure, but when they do and comes back with a warrant, the have to stop the person and usually arrest them. Given that criminal convictions are about 3 times higher among blacks, it is extremely likely that the % of those with warrants is similarly higher in the general population. Therefore, even if plates were run at random, the % of time a warrant would pop up and require a stop rate would be about 3 times higher for blacks, which is close to what it is in Ferguson.

We have no assurances that the proportionality of the findings in a stop actually map to the broader populace. Nor do we have assurance that these figures account for false positives. In my own stop I'd surmise that I'd be listed under the 'license' category, even though in actuality there was no issue with my registration status.

But you don't have any warrants for a prior crime, so it isn't relevant. Blacks are not getting searched more (rather less), when no warrant exists. Some people without warrants get searched, but in Ferguson you'd be less likely than a white person to get searched during a stop.

But my point was a broader one than just the limited data on Ferguson traffic stops. Usage rates certainly are a valid metric when considering the broader subject of proportional rates of incarceration, and I'm fairly certain that users are arrested much more frequently than dealers

Sure, but drug use is actually one of the incarcerated crimes where the racial disparity is the smaller, along with other non-violent crimes like public drunkenness, vandalism, and violating liquor laws. The bigger disparities exist for the more violent crimes, and the disparity in trafficking arrests is larger than for use arrests.
Also, a large % of mere "use" convictions are the outcome of attempts to bust dealers and traffickers but convicted on a lesser charge. Also, if the cops focus on areas where the dealers are, then people using drugs in those areas are far more likely to get nabbed for just using.

Blacks are more likely to be arrested and convicted for almost all types of crimes, and especially violent crimes. A large portion of that is due to SES (the disparity is much less when compared only to lower SES whites). That guarantees a greater likelihood of having a warrant when pulled over and therefore greater likelihood of search and of arrest.

The bottom line is that among the people in Ferguson without warrants for prior crimes that essentially guarantee a search and arrest,
blacks are LESS likely than whites to be either searched or arrested when pulled over.

That fact is incompatible with what is clearly predicted by any theory that the cops are so racist that they hunt for any excuse to hassle and arrest blacks, especially since people pulled over for a traffic or equipment violation would be easy targets for this.

The greater "stop" disparity is compatible with such a theory, but the overall disparity in stops is in line with the size predicted by the greater % of outstanding warrants among blacks, even if checking for warrants was by running a plate was done in proportion to population size. That said there is some unaccounted for disparities that might be due to racist hassling, such as the disparity in being pulled over for a moving violation. But again, the theory that this results from "invented" rather than real differences in violations by racist cops cannot predict a difference in invented stops without also predicting a difference in invented reasons for search and arrests, and yet the data refute such a prediction with searches and arrests.
 
As for lacking "positive ID", that's bullshit. The police report on the robbery specificly identifies brown. And even so, if we are to think it's not Brown who robbed the store, how is it that identical twins of Brown and his buddy Johnson just happened to rob a store nearby on the same day?
conceded on the point, but still completely irrelevant.

explain to me how swiping some cigarettes in any way, shape, or form has anything to do with a cop shooting down a person, when the cop had no idea that the theft has occurred and at no point during the incident was it ever a factor?
explain to me how that theft has anything to do with the circumstances leading to his death.
I don't know the circumstances of the shooting well enough to answer that. But the robbery makes it more plausible that Brown may have "strong-armed" the police officer as he did with the shopkeeper.
 
As for lacking "positive ID", that's bullshit. The police report on the robbery specificly identifies brown.
And it even tells us HOW it identified brown:

It is worth mentioning that this incident is related to another incident detailed under Ferguson Police Report #2014-12391 as well as St. Louis County Police Report #2014-43984. In that incident, Brown was fatally wounded involving an officer of this department. I responded to that scene and observed Brown. After viewing Brown and reviewing this video, I was able to confirm that Brown is the primary suspect in this incident. A second person, also at the scene, identified himself as being with Brown. That person was later identified as Dorian Johnson. After observing Johnson and reviewing the video, I confirmed he is the second suspect in this incident.
This is from the supplemental report -- the part that actually identifies the suspects -- and is dated August 11th, 11:34AM. For those of you who are paying attention, that's two days after Brown was shot, and about two hours after Fergusson police started shooting tear gas at protestors. The report itself was printed on August 14th.

I'm not playing the "police conspiracy" card just yet, but this looks a lot like a "Cover our asses" publicity stunt, especially when you stop to wonder why they bothered to release the report in the first place.

And even so, if we are to think it's not Brown who robbed the store, how is it that identical twins of Brown and his buddy Johnson just happened to rob a store nearby on the same day?
ARE they identical?
Heckuvajob, brownie.png
Aside from being black, I mean. Not as a rhetorical question, I'm honestly wondering if it's been confirmed that Brown was wearing the exact same clothes -- red baseball cap with white logo, white shirt, khaki shorts and flipflops -- as the guy in this video.
 
conceded on the point, but still completely irrelevant.

explain to me how swiping some cigarettes in any way, shape, or form has anything to do with a cop shooting down a person, when the cop had no idea that the theft has occurred and at no point during the incident was it ever a factor?
explain to me how that theft has anything to do with the circumstances leading to his death.


I don't know the circumstances of the shooting well enough to answer that. But the robbery makes it more plausible that Brown may have "strong-armed" the police officer as he did with the shopkeeper.
"Strong arm" is a nebulous concept. It can mean a slight nudge to something much more drastic.
 
I don't know the circumstances of the shooting well enough to answer that. But the robbery makes it more plausible that Brown may have "strong-armed" the police officer as he did with the shopkeeper.
"Strong arm" is a nebulous concept. It can mean a slight nudge to something much more drastic.

It's not nebulous, it's a specific and somewhat counter-intuitive police term. It implies the escalation from mere shoplifting to physically battering or assaulting the clerk in the process (where "battering" and "assaulting" have specific, somewhat counter-intuitive definitions too).

If you steal a candy bar, it's petty theft or petty robbery. If you steal a candy bar and then shove the security guard out of your way when he tries to stop you, that's strong-armed robbery. If you steal the candy bar and then point it at the security guard to make him think you're carrying a gun, that's armed robbery.

I don't make the rules, I just roll my eyes at them.
 
And it even tells us HOW it identified brown:

It is worth mentioning that this incident is related to another incident detailed under Ferguson Police Report #2014-12391 as well as St. Louis County Police Report #2014-43984. In that incident, Brown was fatally wounded involving an officer of this department. I responded to that scene and observed Brown. After viewing Brown and reviewing this video, I was able to confirm that Brown is the primary suspect in this incident. A second person, also at the scene, identified himself as being with Brown. That person was later identified as Dorian Johnson. After observing Johnson and reviewing the video, I confirmed he is the second suspect in this incident.
This is from the supplemental report -- the part that actually identifies the suspects -- and is dated August 11th, 11:34AM. For those of you who are paying attention, that's two days after Brown was shot, and about two hours after Fergusson police started shooting tear gas at protestors. The report itself was printed on August 14th.

I'm not playing the "police conspiracy" card just yet, but this looks a lot like a "Cover our asses" publicity stunt, especially when you stop to wonder why they bothered to release the report in the first place.

And even so, if we are to think it's not Brown who robbed the store, how is it that identical twins of Brown and his buddy Johnson just happened to rob a store nearby on the same day?
ARE they identical?
View attachment 888
Aside from being black, I mean. Not as a rhetorical question, I'm honestly wondering if it's been confirmed that Brown was wearing the exact same clothes -- red baseball cap with white logo, white shirt, khaki shorts and flipflops -- as the guy in this video.
To me that sounds like the desperation of Brown apologists. Besides, Johnson has very distinct hairstyle. And Johnson has since admitted to him and Brown being at the store. I don't see the point of debating whether the person on the video is Brown.
 
I don't know the circumstances of the shooting well enough to answer that. But the robbery makes it more plausible that Brown may have "strong-armed" the police officer as he did with the shopkeeper.
"Strong arm" is a nebulous concept. It can mean a slight nudge to something much more drastic.
The police may have a specific definition which may or may not be nebulous. But in this context, we can see that he grabbed the shopkeeper and moved him aside. There is no need to speculate about the definition "strong arming" in the police report when we know exactly what it refers to.
 
A local St. Louis news station reports

1) the convenience store did not alert the police - the surveillance footage was subpoened Friday (http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/lawyer-store-didnt-call-cops-on-ferguson-teen-michael-brown/14138121/), and

2)
Wilson, a six-year police veteran, stopped Brown and Johnson because the two were walking in the middle of the street and blocking traffic, Chief Jackson said. Wilson was unaware the pair were wanted in connection with the robbery; another officer was investigating the robbery at the time
(http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/ferguson-chief-officer-didnt-know-about-robbery/14124259/).

So, according to the police, alleged jaywalking and blocking traffic is the reason this tragedy began.
 
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I'm not sure if these numbers cleanly disaggregate - but I've done some back of the napkin calculations and discounting the 'license' stops the disparity index is still .44 and 1.36 respectively. Calculating searches per stop, while discounting arrests for warrants, I still figure about 6% and 9% respectively.

9% searches without an outstanding warrant for blacks is quite clearly wrong, because 12% of blacks that are stopped are searched, and 8% (2/3 of those searched) of blacks that are stopped are arrested for pre-existing outstanding warrants. Arrests inherently entail searches and the numbers show that about 70% of searches of blacks occur as a result of an already in-process arrest (mostly for warrants). That only leaves about 1/3 of searches being due to factors other than an outstanding warrant.

You have to subtract the number of those with warrants from the number searched, for each race. For blacks, that means 562 - 369 = 193. And for Whites, 47 - 14 = 33. Then you divide these by the total number of stops for each group (also subtracting the warrants from the number of stops). For blacks that means 193 / (4632 - 369) = .045 or 4.5%. For whites that means 33 / (686 -14) = .049 or 4.9%. This gives you the % of stops that lead to searches, where the was no warrant. I had done them in my head with rounding but my earlier 4% versus 5% is pretty close to 4.5% versus 4.9%. Either way, whites are searched in a higher % of stops without warrants. Also, among drivers without warrants, the arrest rate is higher for whites (3.3%) than blacks (2.7%).


Nor am I sure that your interpretation of the necessity is valid. That is to say, the police still have wide discretion whether to even run someone's plates.
Sure, but when they do and comes back with a warrant, the have to stop the person and usually arrest them. Given that criminal convictions are about 3 times higher among blacks, it is extremely likely that the % of those with warrants is similarly higher in the general population. Therefore, even if plates were run at random, the % of time a warrant would pop up and require a stop rate would be about 3 times higher for blacks, which is close to what it is in Ferguson.

We have no assurances that the proportionality of the findings in a stop actually map to the broader populace. Nor do we have assurance that these figures account for false positives. In my own stop I'd surmise that I'd be listed under the 'license' category, even though in actuality there was no issue with my registration status.

But you don't have any warrants for a prior crime, so it isn't relevant. Blacks are not getting searched more (rather less), when no warrant exists. Some people without warrants get searched, but in Ferguson you'd be less likely than a white person to get searched during a stop.

But my point was a broader one than just the limited data on Ferguson traffic stops. Usage rates certainly are a valid metric when considering the broader subject of proportional rates of incarceration, and I'm fairly certain that users are arrested much more frequently than dealers

Sure, but drug use is actually one of the incarcerated crimes where the racial disparity is the smaller, along with other non-violent crimes like public drunkenness, vandalism, and violating liquor laws. The bigger disparities exist for the more violent crimes, and the disparity in trafficking arrests is larger than for use arrests.
Also, a large % of mere "use" convictions are the outcome of attempts to bust dealers and traffickers but convicted on a lesser charge. Also, if the cops focus on areas where the dealers are, then people using drugs in those areas are far more likely to get nabbed for just using.

Blacks are more likely to be arrested and convicted for almost all types of crimes, and especially violent crimes. A large portion of that is due to SES (the disparity is much less when compared only to lower SES whites). That guarantees a greater likelihood of having a warrant when pulled over and therefore greater likelihood of search and of arrest.

The bottom line is that among the people in Ferguson without warrants for prior crimes that essentially guarantee a search and arrest,
blacks are LESS likely than whites to be either searched or arrested when pulled over.

That fact is incompatible with what is clearly predicted by any theory that the cops are so racist that they hunt for any excuse to hassle and arrest blacks, especially since people pulled over for a traffic or equipment violation would be easy targets for this.

The greater "stop" disparity is compatible with such a theory, but the overall disparity in stops is in line with the size predicted by the greater % of outstanding warrants among blacks, even if checking for warrants was by running a plate was done in proportion to population size. That said there is some unaccounted for disparities that might be due to racist hassling, such as the disparity in being pulled over for a moving violation. But again, the theory that this results from "invented" rather than real differences in violations by racist cops cannot predict a difference in invented stops without also predicting a difference in invented reasons for search and arrests, and yet the data refute such a prediction with searches and arrests.

Transcription error to the back of the napkin - you're right on those figure.

Regarding incarceration for drug offenses: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p11.pdf

pp9 of 237k, 69.5k white, 105.6k black, and 47.8k hispanic.
 
9% searches without an outstanding warrant for blacks is quite clearly wrong, because 12% of blacks that are stopped are searched, and 8% (2/3 of those searched) of blacks that are stopped are arrested for pre-existing outstanding warrants. Arrests inherently entail searches and the numbers show that about 70% of searches of blacks occur as a result of an already in-process arrest (mostly for warrants). That only leaves about 1/3 of searches being due to factors other than an outstanding warrant.

You have to subtract the number of those with warrants from the number searched, for each race. For blacks, that means 562 - 369 = 193. And for Whites, 47 - 14 = 33. Then you divide these by the total number of stops for each group (also subtracting the warrants from the number of stops). For blacks that means 193 / (4632 - 369) = .045 or 4.5%. For whites that means 33 / (686 -14) = .049 or 4.9%. This gives you the % of stops that lead to searches, where the was no warrant. I had done them in my head with rounding but my earlier 4% versus 5% is pretty close to 4.5% versus 4.9%. Either way, whites are searched in a higher % of stops without warrants. Also, among drivers without warrants, the arrest rate is higher for whites (3.3%) than blacks (2.7%).

(snip)

The bottom line is that among the people in Ferguson without warrants for prior crimes that essentially guarantee a search and arrest,
blacks are LESS likely than whites to be either searched or arrested when pulled over.

That fact is incompatible with what is clearly predicted by any theory that the cops are so racist that they hunt for any excuse to hassle and arrest blacks, especially since people pulled over for a traffic or equipment violation would be easy targets for this.

The greater "stop" disparity is compatible with such a theory, but the overall disparity in stops is in line with the size predicted by the greater % of outstanding warrants among blacks, even if checking for warrants was by running a plate was done in proportion to population size. That said there is some unaccounted for disparities that might be due to racist hassling, such as the disparity in being pulled over for a moving violation. But again, the theory that this results from "invented" rather than real differences in violations by racist cops cannot predict a difference in invented stops without also predicting a difference in invented reasons for search and arrests, and yet the data refute such a prediction with searches and arrests.
Nice analysis. However, couldn't the higher search rate among whites compared to blacks without outstanding warrants indicate that blacks might be getting stopped more often, even when there is no reason to search? Whereas whites only get pulled over when there is more grounds for doing so, thus resulting in higher search ratio. It would be interesting to compare also the contraband ratio for searches without warrant: lower ratio means the bar for searching someone is probably lower which could have racial motivation. If the blacks who are searched still have lower contraband ratio than whites, then it would indicate that despite being searched less often, it could still be racist.
 
I think it's a multiple choice question:
a. racism
b. anything but racism

how do you define racism, Erick?

A good question, made all the harder because race isn't a clearly defined concept.

I would say that racism is any thought, statement, action etc involving another person which is based wholly or partly on the perception of that person as part of a racial group, rather than solely on the individual characteristics of that person.
 
9% searches without an outstanding warrant for blacks is quite clearly wrong, because 12% of blacks that are stopped are searched, and 8% (2/3 of those searched) of blacks that are stopped are arrested for pre-existing outstanding warrants. Arrests inherently entail searches and the numbers show that about 70% of searches of blacks occur as a result of an already in-process arrest (mostly for warrants). That only leaves about 1/3 of searches being due to factors other than an outstanding warrant.

You have to subtract the number of those with warrants from the number searched, for each race. For blacks, that means 562 - 369 = 193. And for Whites, 47 - 14 = 33. Then you divide these by the total number of stops for each group (also subtracting the warrants from the number of stops). For blacks that means 193 / (4632 - 369) = .045 or 4.5%. For whites that means 33 / (686 -14) = .049 or 4.9%. This gives you the % of stops that lead to searches, where the was no warrant. I had done them in my head with rounding but my earlier 4% versus 5% is pretty close to 4.5% versus 4.9%. Either way, whites are searched in a higher % of stops without warrants. Also, among drivers without warrants, the arrest rate is higher for whites (3.3%) than blacks (2.7%).

(snip)

The bottom line is that among the people in Ferguson without warrants for prior crimes that essentially guarantee a search and arrest,
blacks are LESS likely than whites to be either searched or arrested when pulled over.

That fact is incompatible with what is clearly predicted by any theory that the cops are so racist that they hunt for any excuse to hassle and arrest blacks, especially since people pulled over for a traffic or equipment violation would be easy targets for this.

The greater "stop" disparity is compatible with such a theory, but the overall disparity in stops is in line with the size predicted by the greater % of outstanding warrants among blacks, even if checking for warrants was by running a plate was done in proportion to population size. That said there is some unaccounted for disparities that might be due to racist hassling, such as the disparity in being pulled over for a moving violation. But again, the theory that this results from "invented" rather than real differences in violations by racist cops cannot predict a difference in invented stops without also predicting a difference in invented reasons for search and arrests, and yet the data refute such a prediction with searches and arrests.
Nice analysis. However, couldn't the higher search rate among whites compared to blacks without outstanding warrants indicate that blacks might be getting stopped more often, even when there is no reason to search? Whereas whites only get pulled over when there is more grounds for doing so, thus resulting in higher search ratio. It would be interesting to compare also the contraband ratio for searches without warrant: lower ratio means the bar for searching someone is probably lower which could have racial motivation. If the blacks who are searched still have lower contraband ratio than whites, then it would indicate that despite being searched less often, it could still be racist.

How much are the stats affected by the demographics of the police department? I realize not quantifiable but unless I missed it, the fact that only 3 of 50 Ferguson police officers are black just might play a factor on stops/searches.
 
How much are the stats affected by the demographics of the police department? I realize not quantifiable but unless I missed it, the fact that only 3 of 50 Ferguson police officers are black just might play a factor on stops/searches.

In my youth (1950) policemen were members of the community they served. They had a beat they walked. They knew the neighborhoods and people. Local policing works. By contrast, today it seems the police view "civilians" as "them." There is no sense of being a part of the community but of being apart from the community. More like an occupying army than police.
 
conceded on the point, but still completely irrelevant.

explain to me how swiping some cigarettes in any way, shape, or form has anything to do with a cop shooting down a person, when the cop had no idea that the theft has occurred and at no point during the incident was it ever a factor?
explain to me how that theft has anything to do with the circumstances leading to his death.
I don't know the circumstances of the shooting well enough to answer that. But the robbery makes it more plausible that Brown may have "strong-armed" the police officer as he did with the shopkeeper.

That's exactly my thought, also.

Given what's been said upthread this might even be a justified shoot. Consider:

Cop stops him. He tries to strong-arm the cop, a struggle for the cop's gun ensues--that's where the shot in the car came from. Whatever the cop knew or didn't know about the original strong-arm robbery he certainly knew about the altercation in the car. If the actions in the car rose to the level of a felony (and I would strongly suspect they do) you now have a fleeing felon--which others have said is a legal shoot.

I disagree with shooting simple fleeing felons but that's not what the law there says.
 
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