Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[laughing dog]

Holder's DOJ apparently wanted to hide truth about Michael Brown.
DOJ Reportedly Asked Ferguson Police Not to Release Robbery Video
Why did DOJ want to keep us in the dark about all this and leave all the "gentle giant" nonsense unchallenged?

Because it is irrelevant. The Ferguson police have stated (the link is above) that the police officer did not know about the robbery. The officer stopped him for jaywalking and obstructing traffic.

 

[Derec]

Holder's DOJ apparently wanted to hide truth about Michael Brown.
DOJ Reportedly Asked Ferguson Police Not to Release Robbery Video
Why did DOJ want to keep us in the dark about all this and leave all the "gentle giant" nonsense unchallenged?

Because it is irrelevant. The Ferguson police have stated (the link is above) that the police officer did not know about the robbery. The officer stopped him for jaywalking and obstructing traffic.

That's a ridiculous statement and those making it know it full well.
1. It is setting straight the story of how great a guy "Big Mike" was. The canonization was in full steam before the robbery video emerged.
2. It goes to Brown's state of mind and makes the cop's story much more credible that the guy who just robbed a store would attack him and go for his gun. Even if the cop didn't (immediately) know that Brown was a robbery suspect, "Big Mike" knew full well what he'd done.

 

[The Paul]

Because it is irrelevant. The Ferguson police have stated (the link is above) that the police officer did not know about the robbery. The officer stopped him for jaywalking and obstructing traffic.

That's a ridiculous statement and those making it know it full well.
1. It is setting straight the story of how great a guy "Big Mike" was. The canonization was in full steam before the robbery video emerged.
2. It goes to Brown's state of mind and makes the cop's story much more credible that the guy who just robbed a store would attack him and go for his gun. Even if the cop didn't (immediately) know that Brown was a robbery suspect, "Big Mike" knew full well what he'd done.

I just can't look away.

I heard that Brown had been involved in a robbery and I knew there was going to be some victorious crowing about how that means he deserved to be executed for walking down the street and for some reason I just had to come and actually see it.

 

[laughing dog]

Because it is irrelevant. The Ferguson police have stated (the link is above) that the police officer did not know about the robbery. The officer stopped him for jaywalking and obstructing traffic.

That's a ridiculous statement and those making it know it full well.

Only to those who engage in blaming the victim.

1. It is setting straight the story of how great a guy "Big Mike" was. The canonization was in full steam before the robbery video emerged.

Which is patently irrelevant to shooting incident.

2. It goes to Brown's state of mind and makes the cop's story much more credible that the guy who just robbed a store would attack him and go for his gun. Even if the cop didn't (immediately) know that Brown was a robbery suspect, "Big Mike" knew full well what he'd done.

There you go again, engaging in speculative snap judgments of "blame the victim". Either Mr. Brown attacked first or he didn't. Why not wait for the relevant facts to come out before you start to defend yet another shooting of an unarmed black man?

 

[RavenSky]

Because it is irrelevant. The Ferguson police have stated (the link is above) that the police officer did not know about the robbery. The officer stopped him for jaywalking and obstructing traffic.

2. It goes to Brown's state of mind and makes the cop's story much more credible that the guy who just robbed a store would attack him and go for his gun. Even if the cop didn't (immediately) know that Brown was a robbery suspect...

I will grant you the very small, though ultimately irrelevant, point that the robbery could make the cop's version of what happened at the patrol car more credible.

It does not, however, explain nor justify why the cop then proceeded to shot Michael Brown multiple times after Brown was ~~25 feet away from the patrol car with his hands in the air.

 

[dismal]

That's a ridiculous statement and those making it know it full well.
1. It is setting straight the story of how great a guy "Big Mike" was. The canonization was in full steam before the robbery video emerged.
2. It goes to Brown's state of mind and makes the cop's story much more credible that the guy who just robbed a store would attack him and go for his gun. Even if the cop didn't (immediately) know that Brown was a robbery suspect, "Big Mike" knew full well what he'd done.

I just can't look away.

I heard that Brown had been involved in a robbery and I knew there was going to be some victorious crowing about how that means he deserved to be executed for walking down the street and for some reason I just had to come and actually see it.

Come to the related vigilante thread and you will see there are a lot of people here who seem to endorse punishments outside the judicial system.

http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?2011-Anonymous-and-viglant-justice

 

[dismal]

It does not, however, explain nor justify why the cop then proceeded to shot Michael Brown multiple times after Brown was ~~25 feet away from the patrol car with his hands in the air.

*If* this is what happened I agree with you it is not justified. I find it's sometimes better to let the facts come out before deciding what happened.

 

[The Paul]

I just can't look away.

I heard that Brown had been involved in a robbery and I knew there was going to be some victorious crowing about how that means he deserved to be executed for walking down the street and for some reason I just had to come and actually see it.

Come to the related vigilante thread and you will see there are a lot of people here who seem to endorse punishments outside the judicial system.

http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?2011-Anonymous-and-viglant-justice

What is this post about?

Are you upset someone's civil right to gun someone down in the street and then have no one talk about it or provide their name was violated? Because no such right exists.

No one has advocated actual vigilantism in this case.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So the robbery is relevant because it shows an precedent of bad acts

Hmmmm

Does that apply to the police dept. as well?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...erguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So the robbery is relevant because it shows an precedent of bad acts

Hmmmm

Does that apply to the police dept. as well?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...erguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

I'm not defending the police.

I'm just saying this wasn't the innocent he was portrayed as. I can see him trying to escape the cop who busted him but I can't see that justifying the shooting even thought it might have been within the law.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

To me that sounds like the desperation of Brown apologists.

On the contrary, publicizing it in the first place was a fairly desperate PR move by the police department, hoping the press would come to their rescue by changing the narrative in their favor. But if they're willing to do something that sleazy, sticking him with a trumped-up robbery charge after the fact isn't beneath them either.

I'm not actually denying that it's him in the video (notice the filename). I'm saying both the source and the video aren't 100% credible without some corroborating evidence.

Besides, Johnson has very distinct hairstyle.

Not as distinct as you're thinking. That's the main reason I asked about their CLOTHING. The specific combination of items on Brown (and Johnson, for that matter) would be enough for an ID in combination with Brown's size.

And Johnson has since admitted to him and Brown being at the store.

But not to robbing the place, which is kinda my point. If we're really going to do the "trial by media" thing -- and don't kid yourself, that is EXACTLY what the police department is going for by publicizing the surveillance video I want to see all the evidence, not just blurry images of an indistinct black face.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Because it is irrelevant. The Ferguson police have stated (the link is above) that the police officer did not know about the robbery. The officer stopped him for jaywalking and obstructing traffic.

That's a ridiculous statement and those making it know it full well.
1. It is setting straight the story of how great a guy "Big Mike" was. The canonization was in full steam before the robbery video emerged.
2. It goes to Brown's state of mind and makes the cop's story much more credible

Which is why it should not have been made public to anyone and should have been presented to the grand jury at the trial.

Releasing that information in a press conference serves no purpose except an attempt to shape public opinion and attract political support (which they desperately need right now after their horrendous performance in the protests). It shows that they don't actually care about the facts or the serving of justice, only appearances

 

[RavenSky]

A group of protesters rejected the curfew early Sunday, chanting, “No justice, no curfew.” The group appeared to break apart after police, equipped with riot gear and accompanied by armored vehicles, fired several canisters of what NBC News confirmed was tear gas in addition to smoke at the demonstrators. An increasingly torrential downpour seemed to thin the crowd further as the night wore on.

“This is the police department. You are violating the state-imposed curfew. You must disperse immediately or be subject to arrest and or other actions,” an officer could be heard telling the protesters over a loudspeaker.

The aggressive move by Gov. Nixon to order residents, angered by a lack of accountability and what many saw as smear tactics by the police, only further enraged a town roiling since the killing.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/jay-nixon-declares-state-emergency-curfew-ferguson

Why impose a curfew at all? It appears to be a tactic designed to allow police to crack down again.

...a visibly shaken Nixon, who faced outspoken and frustrated community members at a press conference Saturday afternoon. “If we are to achieve justice we must first have and maintain peace. This is a test. The eyes of the world are watching.”

Yes, the world is watching. You (Gov. Nixon) and the police forces in Ferguson are failing miserably.

 

[Toni]

On the contrary, publicizing it in the first place was a fairly desperate PR move by the police department, hoping the press would come to their rescue by changing the narrative in their favor. But if they're willing to do something that sleazy, sticking him with a trumped-up robbery charge after the fact isn't beneath them either.

I'm not actually denying that it's him in the video (notice the filename). I'm saying both the source and the video aren't 100% credible without some corroborating evidence.

Besides, Johnson has very distinct hairstyle.

Not as distinct as you're thinking. That's the main reason I asked about their CLOTHING. The specific combination of items on Brown (and Johnson, for that matter) would be enough for an ID in combination with Brown's size.

And Johnson has since admitted to him and Brown being at the store.

But not to robbing the place, which is kinda my point. If we're really going to do the "trial by media" thing -- and don't kid yourself, that is EXACTLY what the police department is going for by publicizing the surveillance video I want to see all the evidence, not just blurry images of an indistinct black face.

I have a question about the images I've seen of video of the robbery and of Michael Brown dead in the street. I cannot tell if the clothing IS the same. In the robbery video, the pants are short in length and he's wearing a red cap. The incident report mentions specifically long khaki shorts, white t shirt, yellow socks and red Cards cap. In the images I've seen of Brown after the shooting, I cannot tell the length of the pants, socks and I do not see a red cap. The quality of images for both scenes is not good or maybe I am just old but even full screen, I cannot get that much detail. Also do not see stolen cigars. I know that Johnson has admitted that Brown took cigars but I don't see them in any of the video.

BTW, white t-shirt, long khaki shorts and cards cap are EXTREMELY common articles of clothing in the St. Louis area in the summer, even in combination. Johnson's hairstyle is not particularly unique or distinctive.

Also in the police report of the robbery, Brown is identified by NAME. (p. 10 of police report (http://www.scribd.com/doc/236914260/Michael-Brown-Police-Report)

How was that possible? Did the clerk or witness identify him by name to the police? I am not claiming that the image of the robbery isn't Brown. There are a number of things about the timeline and images that have me scratching my head.

 

[Jarhyn]

It really doesn't matter if MB was a robbery suspect. An action is right or wrong when it is taken, not when the results are known.

If you are driving recklessly, and you happen to hit someone, it is wrong and you should have your license revoked until you are both willing and able to drive safely. Period. It doesn't matter if you ran down MLK jr. or time traveling Hitler. It doesn't fucking matter: either way it was a bad gamble.

The police have already stated plainly that the officer DID NOT know he was a robbery suspect. The officer DID know that he was running away with his hands up screaming 'don't shoot'. This means that the officer has to face the facts that he needs major corrective action before he is allowed to so much as LOOK at a gun.

 

[repoman]

The conversation of a witness in this video is interesting, suggestive but NOT convincing along the policeman's story.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/

 

[repoman]

I want to step outside of the racial issue for a second and say that it is the lack of evidence that makes this story catch fire in the imagination of the public. Same as the missing Malaysian Airlines plane. With the mystery you can make it whatever you want it to be that happened.

There are much better PROVEN cases of police brutality on blacks in America that for some reason don't galvanize a response. It is a shame they are not being used instead.

Using the Michael Brown case is having a "boy who cried wolf" effect on potentially sympathetic whites.

 

[Derec]

It really doesn't matter if MB was a robbery suspect. An action is right or wrong when it is taken, not when the results are known.

If you are driving recklessly, and you happen to hit someone, it is wrong and you should have your license revoked until you are both willing and able to drive safely. Period. It doesn't matter if you ran down MLK jr. or time traveling Hitler. It doesn't fucking matter: either way it was a bad gamble.

The police have already stated plainly that the officer DID NOT know he was a robbery suspect. The officer DID know that he was running away with his hands up screaming 'don't shoot'. This means that the officer has to face the facts that he needs major corrective action before he is allowed to so much as LOOK at a gun.

It certainly does matter. In your Hitler vs. MLK scenario they were passive participants, having no control over whether they'd be hit, but Michael Brown wasn't a passive participant. From the beginning the policeman's story has been that Brown attacked him and went for his gun. That story was attacked as very unlikely to be true because this "college bound high school graduate", this "gentle giant" neither had the inclination nor reason to do that. Yet as we learn the truth about Brown and his involvement in a strongarm robbery just before the encounter with the police the cop's story becomes much more likely.

 

[Derec]

I have a question about the images I've seen of video of the robbery and of Michael Brown dead in the street. I cannot tell if the clothing IS the same. In the robbery video, the pants are short in length and he's wearing a red cap. The incident report mentions specifically long khaki shorts, white t shirt, yellow socks and red Cards cap. In the images I've seen of Brown after the shooting, I cannot tell the length of the pants, socks and I do not see a red cap. The quality of images for both scenes is not good or maybe I am just old but even full screen, I cannot get that much detail. Also do not see stolen cigars. I know that Johnson has admitted that Brown took cigars but I don't see them in any of the video.

Johnson admitting to the robbery pretty much seals the deal and makes amateur photo analysis superfluous. But just two comments if I may:
- the baseball cap would probably had been dislodged from his head during the attack on/scuffle with the policeman. Not surprising that he doesn't have it on.
- length of pants. On the photos of Brown's body you can see his underwear (dark blue) meaning that his pants slipped past his buttocks. That would have made the pant legs appear longer of course, looking more like capris than shorts.

 

[RavenSky]

It really doesn't matter if MB was a robbery suspect. An action is right or wrong when it is taken, not when the results are known.

If you are driving recklessly, and you happen to hit someone, it is wrong and you should have your license revoked until you are both willing and able to drive safely. Period. It doesn't matter if you ran down MLK jr. or time traveling Hitler. It doesn't fucking matter: either way it was a bad gamble.

The police have already stated plainly that the officer DID NOT know he was a robbery suspect. The officer DID know that he was running away with his hands up screaming 'don't shoot'. This means that the officer has to face the facts that he needs major corrective action before he is allowed to so much as LOOK at a gun.

It certainly does matter. In your Hitler vs. MLK scenario they were passive participants, having no control over whether they'd be hit, but Michael Brown wasn't a passive participant. From the beginning the policeman's story has been that Brown attacked him and went for his gun. That story was attacked as very unlikely to be true because this "college bound high school graduate", this "gentle giant" neither had the inclination nor reason to do that. Yet as we learn the truth about Brown and his involvement in a strongarm robbery just before the encounter with the police the cop's story becomes much more likely.

It makes it more acceptable to shoot a suspect multiple times after they are no danger to anyone and they've put their hands up in surrender?

I find it interesting that we have two separate cases of black men being shot to death by police. In one case, the shooting was justified by you because the man was moving towards police. In this one you seem to be justifying the shooting because the man was moving away from the police officer.