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What would be the repercussions of the US pulling out and leaving Syria to Assad and the Russians?
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Question About Syria
- Thread starter ZiprHead
- Start date
barbos
Contributor
You forgot Iranians. But repercussions would be the end of ISIS and loss of some Russia harassing capabilities for US which is unacceptable for US.
repoman
Contributor
Too bad he is a real estate/fraud/embezzlement criminal and that prosecution/impeachment will be held over his head as a stick so he will attack or frustrate Syria.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Not much. Obama got it right, there is no military or political solution we can enact that will end violence and bring about peace.
Syria has long been a proxy battle between the Arabs and Persians, AKA Iran. Arabs were funding and arming Syrian opposition long before Obama took office and it reached a crisis over chemical weapons.
The Russians put their foot in it and from reports they have tried to disengage but are stuck with it.
It a is a centuries old mess of tribal, clan, and sectarian conflict. Sunni-Shia conversions in Iran and Saudi Arabia are harshly punished. Back in the 90s there was an execution for apostasy. Public beheading.
Anyone who thinks given the last 10 years that we can affect conditions is not playing with a full deck.
Assad is a killer no doubt. However the opposition and its backers are as much to blame for the horrors.
At one point before it all came apart Assad did offer a compromise and it was rejected.
The idea that democracy and stability would sprout in Iraq post Hussein was a misguided neo-con pipe dream. Even if Assad had left peacefully early on there would still be civil war.
After WWII the Europeans decided mutually assured survival and prosperity was better than the previous centuries of conflict. The Mid East violence will not end until enough people are sick of it.
The old unwritten agreement was we protect Saudi Arabia and provide protection.
We are nearing energy independence.
I know the suffering, but to hell with them. They all created their own hell, let them live in it. Look at a large wall map. Telaviv is what, 250 mikes from Cairo? It is all happening in a very small area. In the middle is the tiny stable spec called Israel. Despite Iranian propaganda the source of the violence is neither the US or Israel.
Syria has long been a proxy battle between the Arabs and Persians, AKA Iran. Arabs were funding and arming Syrian opposition long before Obama took office and it reached a crisis over chemical weapons.
The Russians put their foot in it and from reports they have tried to disengage but are stuck with it.
It a is a centuries old mess of tribal, clan, and sectarian conflict. Sunni-Shia conversions in Iran and Saudi Arabia are harshly punished. Back in the 90s there was an execution for apostasy. Public beheading.
Anyone who thinks given the last 10 years that we can affect conditions is not playing with a full deck.
Assad is a killer no doubt. However the opposition and its backers are as much to blame for the horrors.
At one point before it all came apart Assad did offer a compromise and it was rejected.
The idea that democracy and stability would sprout in Iraq post Hussein was a misguided neo-con pipe dream. Even if Assad had left peacefully early on there would still be civil war.
After WWII the Europeans decided mutually assured survival and prosperity was better than the previous centuries of conflict. The Mid East violence will not end until enough people are sick of it.
The old unwritten agreement was we protect Saudi Arabia and provide protection.
We are nearing energy independence.
I know the suffering, but to hell with them. They all created their own hell, let them live in it. Look at a large wall map. Telaviv is what, 250 mikes from Cairo? It is all happening in a very small area. In the middle is the tiny stable spec called Israel. Despite Iranian propaganda the source of the violence is neither the US or Israel.
barbos
Contributor
I don't recall such Obama. I remember how he got US involved in Syria by arming so called "opposition" and then direct US forces involvement.
barbos
Contributor
So Trump is planing Nuclear Strike On Russia?
What's going on? Last I heard Great Britain refused to take part in Syria bombing saying there was not enough evidence of the chemical attack, this is a bit ironic coming from them.
What's going on? Last I heard Great Britain refused to take part in Syria bombing saying there was not enough evidence of the chemical attack, this is a bit ironic coming from them.
barbos
Contributor
You think he is not going to strike russian millitary infested Syria? Why then that End of The World plane took off?
Imagine Nuclear War because Trump had this pornstar problem.
J842P
Veteran Member
While I did strongly disagree with this, to be fair to Obama, I think he did what he could hold back the war machine. You ha e to understand, the Democratic establishment *loves war*. Remember, there was a mutiny at State Department over his Syria policy, and they released that unprecedented memo of dissent.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against dissent memos, but of course it had to be in support of more War.
Where were these people during Iraq? Oh yeah, full throttle behind it...
I've said it before, but that memo singlehandedly redeemed Obama for me.
barbos
Contributor
Well I don't remember him saying these things. I do remember his stupid red line and then him being reluctant to follow on his threats.
Jimmy Higgins
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The problem with military force in Syria is that there is no end game. The best you can do is try to destroy airfields and planes. You can't just take out Assad. Russia is not losing Syria.
The biggest threat to American (more appropriately European) interests in Syria is chemical weapon access for ISIS. Russia seemed to step in here because ISIS having access to chemical weapons would have been a bad thing for them too, being the closest.
What is happening in Syria is awful, but there are really no options otherwise to "fix" it. Obama bluffed, he lost face a bit there, but the reality is, there is no fixing Syria because Russia has a notable interest in keeping Syria the way it is. And even if they didn't, there is no viable replacement for Assad that wouldn't lead to an all out civil war between factions.
So we are left with a bunch of options that doesn't change a thing, each coming with a different type of cost.
The biggest threat to American (more appropriately European) interests in Syria is chemical weapon access for ISIS. Russia seemed to step in here because ISIS having access to chemical weapons would have been a bad thing for them too, being the closest.
What is happening in Syria is awful, but there are really no options otherwise to "fix" it. Obama bluffed, he lost face a bit there, but the reality is, there is no fixing Syria because Russia has a notable interest in keeping Syria the way it is. And even if they didn't, there is no viable replacement for Assad that wouldn't lead to an all out civil war between factions.
So we are left with a bunch of options that doesn't change a thing, each coming with a different type of cost.
Underseer
Contributor
Right.
The only reason a nation that claims to have the rule of law would investigate criminal activity by a powerful politician[ent]mdash[/ent]including possible treason[ent]mdash[/ent]would be as part of a conspiracy to do the bidding of THEM! They are obviously up to something sinister! How else do you explain the FBI enforcing the law?
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
IMO Obama walked a fine line between all factions in the region.
He did say his conclusion was that there was no military or political solutions. It has been recalled in the media with Trump's potential to take half assed action. It took a lot of strength for Obama to resist the hawks on both sides.
Obama did something no other president has done. He essentially called the Arabs duplicitous. They always play all sides, and while arming anti-Iran opposition in Syria they play the victim.
Trump on the verge of doing something with very serious consequences. The fool is taunting Russia in tweets like it is a TV show. I am not religious, but god help us. Somebody in the media needs to get serious and start sounding a loud alarm.
He did say his conclusion was that there was no military or political solutions. It has been recalled in the media with Trump's potential to take half assed action. It took a lot of strength for Obama to resist the hawks on both sides.
Obama did something no other president has done. He essentially called the Arabs duplicitous. They always play all sides, and while arming anti-Iran opposition in Syria they play the victim.
Trump on the verge of doing something with very serious consequences. The fool is taunting Russia in tweets like it is a TV show. I am not religious, but god help us. Somebody in the media needs to get serious and start sounding a loud alarm.
bilby
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After the Cuban Missile Crisis, it became clear that there was a real risk of a war starting because the leaders of the US and USSR could not rapidly communicate with each other; This lead to the establishment of the 'Hot Line'.
It seems that today we need the opposite - a 'Cold Line' where any communication from the POTUS can be examined and (if it might cause a diplomatic incident, or the outbreak of war) be redacted before any other nation's leaders - particularly the Russians - get to see it.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
We'd avoid a very bad war.
barbos
Contributor
I must have missed that. But I have on a few occasions seen him saying right things while unprepared, but then after talking to his neocon advisers he would change his tune. Truth is, Obama was not any good at foreign policy and relied on opinion of "experts" most of which are neocons.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Obama's strategy was to try, over and over and over again, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, to find a rebel group that wanted to institute a secular liberal democracy.
"Ah, we found one. Whoops, they're religious radicals. Ah, maybe this one. Nope, they're also religious radicals."
Trump is actually worse than Obama on Syria. Assad is getting close to finally ending the civil war, someone uses gas attacks. There is no reason for Assad to do so, therefore he gets the blame. Trump declares yet again that Assad has to go, Putin tells Trump that the Russians will defend Assad. Trump says the US will launch missiles. Putin says Russia will shoot the missiles down. Trump says the US has smart missiles.
Worst puppet ever, really.
"Ah, we found one. Whoops, they're religious radicals. Ah, maybe this one. Nope, they're also religious radicals."
Trump is actually worse than Obama on Syria. Assad is getting close to finally ending the civil war, someone uses gas attacks. There is no reason for Assad to do so, therefore he gets the blame. Trump declares yet again that Assad has to go, Putin tells Trump that the Russians will defend Assad. Trump says the US will launch missiles. Putin says Russia will shoot the missiles down. Trump says the US has smart missiles.
Worst puppet ever, really.
