#BlackinAmerica

[Arctish]

They should have asked her to leave, if they didn't. But once the police arrive, had she left voluntarily they would not have arrested her.

That's a mighty big assumption.

It sounds reasonable. It should work that way. But we've seen cases where the police don't give a person the option of leaving, most recently in the Starbucks incident. And we've all seen instances where the cops assault someone and when the person reacts out of fright or instinctively tried to protect their face, the cops claim the person was resisting arrest or threatening them or interfering, or something.

Note that the video starts in medias res, not during argument with staff, and not even when the police first arrive. By the time the camera is rolling, they are already trying to arrest her.

They DON'T TELL HER WHY OR CHARGES. Again, operative word: DON'T. She's not hurting police

She is definitely resisting arrest.

Or she's resisting an unlawful assault on her person. If they don't actually place her under arrest in accordance with state laws and local statutes, are they still allowed to grab her and put her in handcuffs? They shouldn't be. Not if civil liberties means anything these days.

 

[laughing dog]

And Internet, thanks to her "friend" who posted it online. To be fair to police, she wasn't wearing much (back from night out, perhaps intoxicated?), so it didn't take much to remove that top.

Wow. It doesn't matter what she was wearing or why she was wearing it - the police literally mishandled her. So your conjectures serve no purpose but to blame the victim. Wow.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

At least the ABC version is blurred. If you really want NSFW, the friend uploaded the uncensored version to Tumblr.

Show

https://vtt.tumblr.com/tumblr_p7la7reMGC1wqnkez_480.mp4

Blurred breasts may also be not safe for work, Derec. It would be risky for someone to watch that in the workplace.

At least nobody got killed or even shot.

While that is absolutely true and it would be great if someone posted some statistics relevant to the op in the thread, let's not minimize all the smaller things that blacks in America go through.

Btw, people getting shot at wee hours in Waffle House is not that uncommon.

Probably a derail, not going to click the link unless it is relevant to the thread.

This black lady places an order and asks for plasticware to go with it. Was it to-go maybe? It seems pretty standard to get plasticware with a to-go order but she was black. They tell her it costs 50 cents and she objects because not only is it wrong on convention, she'd been there a week earlier and they didn't charge her because they know it's ridiculous.

Do we know she was treated any differently from other customers, much less that it was for the reason of race? Maybe it was a new policy due to rising operating costs. Plastic forks are not free.

That doesn't matter. What matters is that it's unusual and so she has a right to inquiry. As a customer she has a right to enquire and complain anyway, even about something where she is wrong. She doesn't have to be extra-correct, just because she is black.

The server removes the order. The black lady asks to get the phone number of the corporate office to complain. The staff DON'T ASK HER TO LEAVE. Operative word: DON'T. They quietly call the police out of view of the customer while not telling her they aren't getting a card with the number of the corporate office/district manager. The police arrive and start dealing with the black woman who is very confused over what is going on. They're trying to arrest her and force her into handcuffs and she is asking her what are the charges.

They should have asked her to leave, if they didn't.

Yes and No. Merely asking a customer to leave isn't actually a good thing. Wait for the customer to lodge a complaint (if it comes to that) or contact the big bosses. Then, after all the customer actions are completed, tell them there is nothing left and ask them to leave, assuming they are not on their way out already. Note that customer is always right. They shouldn't be treated differently because they're black or poor or whatever. It's bad customer management, otherwise, not expected for a business.

But once the police arrive, had she left voluntarily they would not have arrested her.

First, why would she leave when police arrive because no one told her the police were there for her, no one told her charges, and police just started touching her.

Note that the video starts in medias res, not during argument with staff, and not even when the police first arrive. By the time the camera is rolling, they are already trying to arrest her.

Okay. Often, though, people don't start recording something until something crazy is going on like a confrontation. So her friend wouldn't have started recording during a minor request for plasticware. She would have started recording after becoming aware not just that police arrived but until they were shocked that police were unjustly there for the black lady or maybe when they were being handsy.

They DON'T TELL HER WHY OR CHARGES. Again, operative word: DON'T. She's not hurting police

She is definitely resisting arrest.

Maybe I am wrong, but I wonder if police can validly arrest you in every State, if you enquire about charges over and over but they don't tell you. It's at a minimum bad policy not to tell an arrestee why they are being detained. But more importantly, I seriously wonder what kind of probable cause there was for an arrest. Customer complaints are not the same thing as disorderly conduct, no matter how much a business may want them to be and calling 911 because of a customer complaint where she asks to get the district manager's number is cause for the restaurant to get in trouble for making a frivolous call, especially because there were no threats of harm by the customer or other extreme irregularities that would be cause for an emergency call to police. Even though the customer is BLACK.

but protecting her body as the police end up removing her top/shirt/top of dress or whatever exposing her in front of the whole restaurant and staff.

And Internet, thanks to her "friend" who posted it online. To be fair to police, she wasn't wearing much (back from night out, perhaps intoxicated?), so it didn't take much to remove that top.

Wow, blaming the victim. No one is surprised, of such a post, Derec. Everyone's shaking their heads.

 

[ZiprHead]

Cops called on black female golfers for playing too slowly.

 

[Emily Lake]

Cops called on black female golfers for playing too slowly.

At least this bit is somewhat refreshing

Northern York County Regional Police Chief Mark Bentzel told The Post that when the officers arrived, they learned the reason they were called was because of a dispute between the club’s management and the golfers. After talking with both groups for about 20 minutes, “we determined this was not something that the police department needed to be involved with.”

“We determined this was not a police matter, and we left,” Bentzel said. “Other than people offering their opinion back and forth, there were no problems. No need for us to be there.”

 

[laughing dog]

Cops called on black female golfers for playing too slowly.

I thought the entire point of golf was to take forever to play (or does it just seem like it)?

 

[Emily Lake]

Cops called on black female golfers for playing too slowly.

I thought the entire point of golf was to take forever to play (or does it just seem like it)?

Depends on how much you drink.

 

[Derec]

Cops called on black female golfers for playing too slowly.

I thought the entire point of golf was to take forever to play (or does it just seem like it)?

While golf is slow, speed is relative. If one group is significantly slower than those behind them, they have to wait around, which is annoying. How long did these woman take per hole?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They were arrested because they were asked to leave or buy something and did not. They would not have been arrested even after the police arrived if they just left. The present moral panic is embarrassing.

Agreed, I'm not certain why those two black guys didn't know their place.

Now certainly, there has been a bit much with some of the protest, but the idea that race had no play in this is just being blind. Would white people been asked to leave?

 

[Derec]

That's a mighty big assumption.

Not nearly as big as the assumption that police must be in the wrong.

It sounds reasonable. It should work that way. But we've seen cases where the police don't give a person the option of leaving, most recently in the Starbucks incident.

My understanding is that the police told them to leave and only arrested them when they refused. Which is standard procedure.

And we've all seen instances where the cops assault someone and when the person reacts out of fright or instinctively tried to protect their face, the cops claim the person was resisting arrest or threatening them or interfering, or something.

Resisting out of fear does not mean they were not resisting/

Or she's resisting an unlawful assault on her person. If they don't actually place her under arrest in accordance with state laws and local statutes, are they still allowed to grab her and put her in handcuffs? They shouldn't be. Not if civil liberties means anything these days.

But they did arrest her. Note that her dad had to bail her out, so the arrest was certainly not on its face unlawful. If you think you did nothing wrong, the time to fight it is in front of a judge, not while being arrested.

 

[Derec]

Wow. It doesn't matter what she was wearing or why she was wearing it - the police literally mishandled her. So your conjectures serve no purpose but to blame the victim. Wow.

Not blaming the "victim". I was just stating the fact that the top she had on can shift easily and thus is no evidence that police "mishandled" her.

 

[Derec]

Blurred breasts may also be not safe for work, Derec. It would be risky for someone to watch that in the workplace.

Yeah, but it was an excuse to post a link to the uncensored version.

While that is absolutely true and it would be great if someone posted some statistics relevant to the op in the thread, let's not minimize all the smaller things that blacks in America go through.

Again, there was no evidence WH/police did anything wrong here or that she was treated differently because she was black.

Probably a derail, not going to click the link unless it is relevant to the thread.

A rapper got shot at a Waffle House in Atlanta a while ago.

That doesn't matter. What matters is that it's unusual and so she has a right to inquiry. As a customer she has a right to enquire and complain anyway, even about something where she is wrong.

But she doesn't have the right to remain on premises while unwanted.

She doesn't have to be extra-correct, just because she is black.

She doesn't have to be extra-correct, but neither should she get extra leeway because she is black.

Yes and No. Merely asking a customer to leave isn't actually a good thing. Wait for the customer to lodge a complaint (if it comes to that) or contact the big bosses. Then, after all the customer actions are completed, tell them there is nothing left and ask them to leave, assuming they are not on their way out already.

So maybe WH did not follow perfect customer service guidelines. Does not make them or police wrong.

Note that customer is always right.

Just like Whammy Burger, that is not their policy.

They shouldn't be treated differently because they're black or poor or whatever. It's bad customer management, otherwise, not expected for a business.

But you have not shown they were treated differently.

First, why would she leave when police arrive because no one told her the police were there for her, no one told her charges, and police just started touching her.

Why do you assume that? The video only starts when they were already starting to arrest her.

Okay. Often, though, people don't start recording something until something crazy is going on like a confrontation.

Well yes, but teh upshot is that we do not know what transpired beforehand. You assume police are in the wrong.

She would have started recording after becoming aware not just that police arrived but until they were shocked that police were unjustly there for the black lady or maybe when they were being handsy.

You can't arrest somebody without touching them. And if they are resisting, it will require more contact.

Maybe I am wrong, but I wonder if police can validly arrest you in every State, if you enquire about charges over and over but they don't tell you. It's at a minimum bad policy not to tell an arrestee why they are being detained. But more importantly, I seriously wonder what kind of probable cause there was for an arrest. Customer complaints are not the same thing as disorderly conduct, no matter how much a business may want them to be and calling 911 because of a customer complaint where she asks to get the district manager's number is cause for the restaurant to get in trouble for making a frivolous call, especially because there were no threats of harm by the customer or other extreme irregularities that would be cause for an emergency call to police. Even though the customer is BLACK.

Again, you are assuming this was about race. No evidence of that.
And police can arrest you for trespassing. In every state.

but protecting her body as the police end up removing her top/shirt/top of dress or whatever exposing her in front of the whole restaurant and staff.

And Internet, thanks to her "friend" who posted it online. To be fair to police, she wasn't wearing much (back from night out, perhaps intoxicated?), so it didn't take much to remove that top.

Wow, blaming the victim. No one is surprised, of such a post, Derec. Everyone's shaking their heads.

Not blaming the "victim" for wearing the top. But she was arresting and a top like that can easily get removed inadvertently during attempt to arrest a suspect who is resisting.
As to resisting, yes I blame her. Even if she was drunk. If it was a drunk white man, that would not be controversial.

 

[Emily Lake]

Cops called on black female golfers for playing too slowly.

I thought the entire point of golf was to take forever to play (or does it just seem like it)?

While golf is slow, speed is relative. If one group is significantly slower than those behind them, they have to wait around, which is annoying. How long did these woman take per hole?

Less time than is allotted for in the club's guidelines.

Read the article instead of making assumptions. It's actually in there, fairly clearly.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wow. It doesn't matter what she was wearing or why she was wearing it - the police literally mishandled her. So your conjectures serve no purpose but to blame the victim. Wow.

Not blaming the "victim". I was just stating the fact that the top she had on can shift easily and thus is no evidence that police "mishandled" her.

I must be doing something wrong. I’ve never accidentally disrobed a person before.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

While golf is slow, speed is relative. If one group is significantly slower than those behind them, they have to wait around, which is annoying. How long did these woman take per hole?

Less time than is allotted for in the club's guidelines.

Read the article instead of making assumptions. It's actually in there, fairly clearly.

A lot of hearsay in that article, but nothing to indicate they did anything wrong.

 

[Emily Lake]

As to resisting, yes I blame her. Even if she was drunk. If it was a drunk white man, that would not be controversial.

Are you aware that there is absolutely nothing at all indicating that she was in any way intoxicated? This is a speculation that you invented out of whole cloth in order to justify the reaction of the staff in the store... and seemingly for no other reason at all.

 

[Emily Lake]

While golf is slow, speed is relative. If one group is significantly slower than those behind them, they have to wait around, which is annoying. How long did these woman take per hole?

Less time than is allotted for in the club's guidelines.

Read the article instead of making assumptions. It's actually in there, fairly clearly.

A lot of hearsay in that article, but nothing to indicate they did anything wrong.

Perhaps I'm mis-reading you here, but you seem to be indicating that I've suggested they did something wrong?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

A lot of hearsay in that article, but nothing to indicate they did anything wrong.

Perhaps I'm mis-reading you here, but you seem to be indicating that I've suggested they did something wrong?

You did not suggest that.

 

[ZiprHead]

While golf is slow, speed is relative. If one group is significantly slower than those behind them, they have to wait around, which is annoying. How long did these woman take per hole?

Less time than is allotted for in the club's guidelines.

Read the article instead of making assumptions. It's actually in there, fairly clearly.

The people behind them couldn't just ask to play through?

 

[Emily Lake]

While golf is slow, speed is relative. If one group is significantly slower than those behind them, they have to wait around, which is annoying. How long did these woman take per hole?

Less time than is allotted for in the club's guidelines.

Read the article instead of making assumptions. It's actually in there, fairly clearly.

The people behind them couldn't just ask to play through?

I wondered about that too. My understanding is that it's pretty common golf etiquette.