Eleven Year Old Genius Sets Out to Prove Existence of God

[Underseer]

Well, i suspect it'll look like other people using him for argument from respect for IQ:

"This kid believed in God at 11, and he's a fucking genius! So you would have to be either much, much smarter than him, or a drooling moron, to question him.
Whats yer IQ? "

It's called an appeal to authority and everything Christians and Muslims believe comes from some sort of appeal to authority (the Bible is an authority, the man in the pulpit is an authority, people who receive magic visions are authorities, etc.). Thus they think that an appeal to authority fallacy is the only way to prove things true.

You know the old saying: when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

 

[Rhea]

So I’m seeing a headline that says, “Eleven year old thinks he’s going to do things no other human in history has done,” and we’re supposed to be all, “wow! Amazing!” Have I got that right? I’m a little underwhelmed.

It’s kinda funny that the Christian response is to act like he’s already done it and they can start taking conversions.

 

[Jobar]

I do wonder what will happen when he realizes that all the extant arguments have gaping logical holes in them, and that there are unavoidable contradictions when you try to justify a god that's both omnipotent and benevolent. Will he deconvert loudly, or just drop the whole project quietly? Better the latter if he wants to keep peace in his family, but probably better for his own self respect if he speaks out.

 

[bilby]

So I’m seeing a headline that says, “Eleven year old thinks he’s going to do things no other human in history has done,” and we’re supposed to be all, “wow! Amazing!” Have I got that right? I’m a little underwhelmed.

It’s kinda funny that the Christian response is to act like he’s already done it and they can start taking conversions.

When I was eleven, I planned to be the first person on Mars.

Nobody bothered to write up that ambitious goal in the press; And whether they had or not, nobody would have been in the slightest bit surprised when it completely failed to be realised*.

Eleven year old boys have vast ambition. Within a few years, most have decided that their new ambition to have a pretty girl notice that they exist is a project more worthy of their time and effort.







*Of course it's still technically possible; But it seems unlikely that the first person on Mars will be an overweight myopic man in his fifties, from a nation without an active space program, and with no relevant training, qualification or experience in space exploration, aeronautics, or geology, and with professional skills that, while not exactly commonplace, are hardly rare or sought after, even within his field. On the plus side, I haven't yet gone bald, and still have almost half of my adult teeth, so I am not the world's least qualified candidate. I might even scrape in to the top two billion.

 

[WAB]

The kid is young and curious as to how to justify his belief in a deity to skeptics. Give him time. He may be joining us here one day soon. Who knows? A lot of us who were raised as believers ended up rejecting religion during the teen years.

But then we all went back to being believers after this kid presented his solid evidentiary support for the existence of God.

I suspect it will looks something like this:

View attachment 15645

Hey - I'm convinced!

Nothing of substantive content here, Tom, and you damn well know it.

Just mockery and scorn; typical handwaving magic that some sciency types love to indulge in, then turn around and have the phuck.ing audacity to accuse more humble scientists of the very same thing. Appalling. Einstein is spinning in his grave at the lack of humility among certain types of scientists.

But yeah, all those PHD's, those theoretical physicists with their imaginative theories, their speculative, risk-taking, deeply- thought-out models? Yeah, they're all just a bunch of dummies, morons, wooers. BULLshit.

People like you will say and write ANYTHING, and heap scorn upon ANYTHING, just to keep tenure, to make sure you fare well in peer reviews. Pathetic cowardice and lack of intellectual integrity. THIS is why the universities are churning out weaklings who cannot face reality. It's the blind leading the blind.

This kid is far brighter than you, or I, or bilby, or fromderinside, and y'all damn well know it. If you don't, you need to be made aware of it. Post-haste.

I suggest you hit the books instead of dawdling around on Google and having a good time, and racking up your precious rep.

Look at Copernicus: a genius who has a modicum of humility.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Alrighty ... good luck with all of that.

 

[barbos]

This kid is far brighter than you, or I, or bilby, or fromderinside, and y'all damn well know it. If you don't, you need to be made aware of it. Post-haste

I see you did not include me in the list of dimmer people, good, because you would have been wrong

 

[WAB]

This kid is far brighter than you, or I, or bilby, or fromderinside, and y'all damn well know it. If you don't, you need to be made aware of it. Post-haste

I see you did not include me in the list of dimmer people, good, because you would have been wrong

I've admitted many times, and a search would prove that I'm telling the truth —or at least my private version of it (subjectivecatersiantheaterghostinthemachine'wearespiritsinthematerialworld'thingy) —that I am quite often wrong.

I like being wrong, sometimes. Sometimes it has better ultimate pay-off than being right.

But, yeah, being wrong sucks too.

 

[Rhea]

Just mockery and scorn; typical handwaving magic that some sciency types love to indulge in, then turn around and have the phuck.ing audacity to accuse more humble scientists of the very same thing. Appalling. Einstein is spinning in his grave at the lack of humility among certain types of scientists.

But yeah, all those PHD's, those theoretical physicists with their imaginative theories, their speculative, risk-taking, deeply- thought-out models? Yeah, they're all just a bunch of dummies, morons, wooers. BULLshit.

This kid is far brighter than you, or I, or bilby, or fromderinside, and y'all damn well know it. If you don't, you need to be made aware of it. Post-haste.

I feel there’s a good bit of irony in claiming that people lack humility for questioning the claims of an 11 year old who is claiming that he will discover proof of god.

This kid isn’t the only smart kid on the planet. He’s hardly able to claim he’s the smartest who has ever lived.. And if he were claiming that, he’d be rather lacking both smarts and humility, ja?

And as someone intimately familiar with research in profoundly intelligent kids, just because he can easily handle the books for a college degree does NOT mean his entire brain is fully developed in either humility or long range planning or reason. Just because a kid can ready the Harry Potter series a the age of five, doesn’t mean he has he sense to not rub sand on the hood of his father’s car.

This kid is claiming that he will do something that NO OTHER HUMAN, nor consortium of humans, nor god-inspired gaggle of divine scholars has ever achieved.

It doesn’t make me not-humble to say that is an exttraordinary claim and so far no extraordinary evidence has been presented to even hint at its path, let alone its accomplishment.

Your rant is an hilarious testimony to belief without evidence. And if this 11 year old is half as smart as you claim him to be, then he would know that.

Until then, this is a circus side-show. An 11 year-old’s claim that he’s going to change the whole world forever.

 

[Rhea]

Doing a little research on the college he’s chosen and I’m curious as to his path toward World Genius.

If you’re a genius, why do you go to a 3rd rate college with an acceptance rate of 100% and an academic score of “C” (Niche.com and Peterson’s reviews) and brag about it?

If you are so damn smart that you feel you have merit claiming at age 11 what you’ll accomplish as an adult, why would you be bragging about this college? Wouldn’t it be more prudent to just use te school as filler time (what I assume he and his parents are wisely deciding - cheap, close to home, keeps him challenged while still living at home until he’s old enough to make his way at a college that is really for geniuses) and keep your mouth shut until you’re at MIT?


But no, it’s VERY age appropriate for an 11yo to claim he is going to change the world. It’s just not age appropriate for the rest of us to believe him.

 

[barbos]

If you’re a genius, why do you go to a 3rd rate college with an acceptance rate of 100% and an academic score of “C” (Niche.com and Peterson’s reviews) and brag about it?

This explains his nonsensical Big-Bang part of his talk.

 

[WAB]

Just mockery and scorn; typical handwaving magic that some sciency types love to indulge in, then turn around and have the phuck.ing audacity to accuse more humble scientists of the very same thing. Appalling. Einstein is spinning in his grave at the lack of humility among certain types of scientists.

But yeah, all those PHD's, those theoretical physicists with their imaginative theories, their speculative, risk-taking, deeply- thought-out models? Yeah, they're all just a bunch of dummies, morons, wooers. BULLshit.

This kid is far brighter than you, or I, or bilby, or fromderinside, and y'all damn well know it. If you don't, you need to be made aware of it. Post-haste.

I feel there’s a good bit of irony in claiming that people lack humility for questioning the claims of an 11 year old who is claiming that he will discover proof of god.

This kid isn’t the only smart kid on the planet. He’s hardly able to claim he’s the smartest who has ever lived.. And if he were claiming that, he’d be rather lacking both smarts and humility, ja?

And as someone intimately familiar with research in profoundly intelligent kids, just because he can easily handle the books for a college degree does NOT mean his entire brain is fully developed in either humility or long range planning or reason. Just because a kid can ready the Harry Potter series a the age of five, doesn’t mean he has he sense to not rub sand on the hood of his father’s car.

This kid is claiming that he will do something that NO OTHER HUMAN, nor consortium of humans, nor god-inspired gaggle of divine scholars has ever achieved.

It doesn’t make me not-humble to say that is an exttraordinary claim and so far no extraordinary evidence has been presented to even hint at its path, let alone its accomplishment.

Your rant is an hilarious testimony to belief without evidence. And if this 11 year old is half as smart as you claim him to be, then he would know that.

Until then, this is a circus side-show. An 11 year-old’s claim that he’s going to change the whole world forever.

Rant my ass. Your lack of humility, and your inability to step outside of your box, is appalling.

This kid is eleven years old. WTF were YOU doing when you were eleven years old.

Give him some TIME.

By the time he's twenty, don't worry, the Ivory Tower nimrods will have convinced him that not only doesn't he have proof of God, but that he has no proof of his own existence. There is no I. There is no self.

BULLshit.

 

[WAB]

If you’re a genius, why do you go to a 3rd rate college with an acceptance rate of 100% and an academic score of “C” (Niche.com and Peterson’s reviews) and brag about it?

This explains his nonsensical Big-Bang part of his talk.

Your lack of humility is appalling.

 

[Rhea]

Rant my ass. Your lack of humility, and your inability to step outside of your box, is appalling.

This kid is eleven years old. WTF were YOU doing when you were eleven years old.

Give him some TIME.

By the time he's twenty, don't worry, the Ivory Tower nimrods will have convinced him that not only doesn't he have proof of God, but that he has no proof of his own existence. There is no I. There is no self.

BULLshit.

Dear William, it is not a lack of humility that causes me to observe that an 11 year old is still an eleven year old, even when they are extraordinarily intelligent. I stepped out of my box long ago when I had to decide if it was okay for my 6 year old to continue reading Carl Sagan's book that he grabbed off the shelf because I couldn't remember whether there was sex in it, or when I had to develop a personal spelling curriculum for him because he was spelling at a 12th grade level, but his second grade teacher did not have appropriate materials for him, or when I had to explain to him at 7 that Michael Crichton was indeed an entertaining author, but that he had to memorize which words Crichton used in his books that were NOT allowed to be repeated in elementary school, and also no, you cannot lick your friends to see what they taste like, and just because you can pee in our yard doesn't mean you can pee in anyone's.

The kid in the OP is 11. It is not humility to assume he will do something in 10 years that no other human being has ever done. That's not humility, that's sycophancy; and I certainly hope his parents behave more like me than like you. These kids still need parenting.

edited to add - this sounds kind of rant-ey but it's actually written with humor and a smile.

 

[barbos]

If you’re a genius, why do you go to a 3rd rate college with an acceptance rate of 100% and an academic score of “C” (Niche.com and Peterson’s reviews) and brag about it?

This explains his nonsensical Big-Bang part of his talk.

Your lack of humility is appalling.

Not as appalling as this 11 year old's

 

[WAB]

Rant my ass. Your lack of humility, and your inability to step outside of your box, is appalling.

This kid is eleven years old. WTF were YOU doing when you were eleven years old.

Give him some TIME.

By the time he's twenty, don't worry, the Ivory Tower nimrods will have convinced him that not only doesn't he have proof of God, but that he has no proof of his own existence. There is no I. There is no self.

BULLshit.

Dear William, it is not a lack of humility that causes me to observe that an 11 year old is still an eleven year old, even when they are extraordinarily intelligent. I stepped out of my box long ago when I had to decide if it was okay for my 6 year old to continue reading Carl Sagan's book that he grabbed off the shelf because I couldn't remember whether there was sex in it, or when I had to develop a personal spelling curriculum for him because he was spelling at a 12th grade level, but his second grade teacher did not have appropriate materials for him, or when I had to explain to him at 7 that Michael Crichton was indeed an entertaining author, but that he had to memorize which words Crichton used in his books that were NOT allowed to be repeated in elementary school, and also no, you cannot lick your friends to see what they taste like, and just because you can pee in our yard doesn't mean you can pee in anyone's.

The kid in the OP is 11. It is not humility to assume he will do something in 10 years that no other human being has ever done. That's not humility, that's sycophancy; and I certainly hope his parents behave more like me than like you. These kids still need parenting.

edited to add - this sounds kind of rant-ey but it's actually written with humor and a smile.

Rhea:

Okay, I can live with this. I sometimes get hot under the collar, which, if you have noticed, I am all too willing to admit.

If you have seen any of my recent spate of posts (I am in a HIGH manic phase, and could probably write a 200 page manifesto in a few hours), I am aware of my sickness, while also being a victim of it.

My reasoning mind is atheist. My emotional mind still has a strong attachment to religious feelings brought on by what I can comprehend is most likely due to a brain disorder. Somewhere, in another thread, I link to a video, the first in a series, by neuroscientist Vilayanur S. Ramachandran, who, as you may or may not know, has studied the particular brain disorder which is associated with siezures and/or behavior which brings about religious conversion, euphoria, etc.

He is singularly sympathetic to patients who suffer from this disorder, ie he maintains his objectivity as a scientist while allowing for an emotional, or at least warmly qualitative, response and relationship with such people. In this respect he is more receptive and nurturing than the more hardened Sam Harris, while still maintaining an appropriate scientific disinterest and/or detachment. He is quite something.

I have described my journey in this kind of thing over the years, on TFT, formerly FRDB, and Internet Infidels. I began here, 14 years ago, a hardcore atheist. My first thread, which should be in the archives, was called "Trifling with God", wherein I went toe to toe with a Catholic and pretty much walked all over him.

Please accept my apologies for any offense. I do not mean to offend, but I DO get mighty defensive, as you can see.

*

barbos:

This is a child of eleven. Do you have kids? No child of eleven can or ought to be expected to even know what humility is, let alone practice it! Yes, he is incredibly bright, but he's still a kid. His views as to his potential may be overstated and egocentric, but appalling? Not.

I assume you are an adult. You have lived long enough to have acquired wisdom, which brings humility.

Like I said, give this kid some time. Mozart didn't live long enough to learn humility; Brahms did, just to name one example of a composer who was wickedly, fiercely talented at a young age, but lived long enough to see it mellow into wisdom. The same can be said of many artists and scientists.

So, I respectfully disagree with you. There is no swaying me on this, but, sure, go on and try if you'd like. And not to worry, soon I am going inpatient in a mental hospital for a minimum of 30 days, and I will be out of the collective hair of TFT.

But when I come out...

Lol. Let's just hope I still have a few marbles left to come back and rejoin the peanut gallery and not get myself cast into the Flames.

Peace and Christian - cum* - Noodly, unconditional LOVE to all.







*Latin. Get yer minds out of the gutter, people!

 

[Jobar]

I suspect most of us didn't really know a lot about humility at age 11. So I don't really blame the kid for what would be hubris and arrogance in a more mature person.

However, as a skeptic, I would consider it foolishness, not humility, to think that the boy might actually succeed in his aspiration. William, I suggest you keep your criticisms of our skepticism sweeter, in case you have to eat them later. (And if, by some extraordinary brilliancy young Maillis manages to actually come up with a logical and valid argument for the existence of God, many of us here will freely admit our error. But that really ain't the way to bet, given all the centuries of attempts by huge numbers of other highly intelligent human beings.)

 

[Opoponax]

Bah. It's not fair to say the kid lacks humility. It's similar to another kid saying that they're gonna grow up to be President, or an astronaut, or some other similar lofty occupation.

Better than aspiring to take up-the-skirt photos of women in public places.

I thought it interesting and peculiar that he's already latched onto the god vs. no god thing. It's not strange that a kid wants to grow up to be a pastor, priest, etc. The good ones can be good role models. But this kid goes well beyond that. And that's fine, I guess. But he's up against some serious competition.

Say what you want about the great Catholic and Protestant philosophers, but they were really fucking smart and they came up with the best possible arguments for their god centuries ago, and no one has been able to improve upon them. Those arguments have all been beaten to a pulp, but still, this kid is going to have to construct an argument that's never been constructed.

Or maybe he'll somehow cause God to appear. But then he'd be more powerful than God (cue scary Omen music).

 

[WAB]

I suspect most of us didn't really know a lot about humility at age 11. So I don't really blame the kid for what would be hubris and arrogance in a more mature person.

However, as a skeptic, I would consider it foolishness, not humility, to think that the boy might actually succeed in his aspiration. William, I suggest you keep your criticisms of our skepticism sweeter, in case you have to eat them later. (And if, by some extraordinary brilliancy young Maillis manages to actually come up with a logical and valid argument for the existence of God, many of us here will freely admit our error. But that really ain't the way to bet, given all the centuries of attempts by huge numbers of other highly intelligent human beings.)

- bold mine

Hey, I resemble that remark! But lo and behold (search my posts!), I am as healthily skeptical as anyone else. Excepting the well-meaning simpleton David Hume (let's not go there), and the eccentric Bishop Berkeley (who claimed, and then did not claim, that physical objects do not exist, save as figments in our minds. Um, yeah. See Sam Johnson and his stone. Here's a fabulous pair of couplets by the amazing American poet, Richard Wilbur, who wrote a forward to a book by North Dakotan poet Tim Murphy, who (Tim) admires my poetry:

Epistemology

I.

Kick at the rock, Sam Johnson, break your bones:
But cloudy, cloudy is the stuff of stones.

II.

We milk the cow of the world, and as we do
We whisper in her ear, 'You are not true.'​

Which brings us nicely to the even more amazing Percy Shelley, dead at 29 - a tragedy for reasoning minds all over the world:

"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world" - from his seminal The Necessity of Atheism, for which he was pelted with rocks by the bullies & morons at Eton college.


Jobar, while I can no doubt be a royal pain in the collective tushy, and can be as arrogant and prickly as anyone else, a simple search of my posting history will blatantly show you how sweet, how apologetic, and how gentle I can be.

ETA**See Post #76: we cross-posted.

So there! [tongue-sticking-out, thumbs to temples, fingers wiggling, emitting a robust Rabelaisian raspberry]

And here's to having my cake [Marie Antoinette] and eating it too [cognitive dissonance]: a sweet, but bitter repast.



I just love the running guy!

And may I say, it's rather disheartening to note that I've been throwing my sparklies around lavishly, like a coquette, but y'all have been somewhat stingy in that regard. Ah well, like someone round these parts hath bemoaned & bewailed:

WAAHHH, I don't get no sparklies!

 

[barbos]

barbos:

This is a child of eleven. Do you have kids? No child of eleven can or ought to be expected to even know what humility is, let alone practice it!

So I am right, he has less humility than I. In fact he has less humility than 11 year old me.

Yes, he is incredibly bright,

Well, no, I don't think word "incredibly" is appropriate here. As I said before I have a problem with his "science". I think we have a case of a kid with good memory which can get you through school quickly, but that's about it. He does not understand any of the shit he is talking about.

but he's still a kid. His views as to his potential may be overstated and egocentric, but appalling? Not.

Well, his parent is certainly appalling.

I assume you are an adult. You have lived long enough to have acquired wisdom, which brings humility.

I have no humility for child abuse. If what we have here is what I think it is then this kid has good chance of becoming an ass.