The peculiar math that could underlie the laws of nature

[steve_bank]

I am concerned. If nadh is overturned and thrown into chaos will ships sink, airplanes stop flying, and buildings collapse?

 

[whollygoats]

I found this interesting.

"Hacking Reality"....E 8 and quantum gravity to unification theory.

 

[Juma]

Eh. Yes we do. What else do we we any evidens of?

Obviously we don't have the same conception of what knowledge is.
EB

Really? What is that you ”know” that you dont think I recognice as knowledge?

 

[Kharakov]

But the universe is not numbers or equations.

It does cause them.

Since the human, and thus the human mind and what is thought by it, is caused by the universe.

Yeah, that's sort of a broad claim, huh?

 

[Juma]

Since the human, and thus the human mind and what is thought by it, is caused by the universe.

Yeah, that's sort of a broad claim, huh?

Broad and obvious.

 

[barbos]

I am highly skeptical of using math/numerology as a starting point when trying to explain universe..
This particular attempt has failed too. And I would not equate importance of complex numbers with higher order things like quaternions.
Complex numbers have all the properties of real numbers except (obviously) ordering.
quaternions and higher order numbers do not have commutative property. And after dimension 8 these numbers lose all the releveant properties. But yeah, complex numbers is extremely natural and useful extension to real numbers, the rest of numbers not so much.

 

[steve_bank]

I am highly skeptical of using math/numerology as a starting point when trying to explain universe..
This particular attempt has failed too. And I would not equate importance of complex numbers with higher order things like quaternions.
Complex numbers have all the properties of real numbers except (obviously) ordering.
quaternions and higher order numbers do not have commutative property. And after dimension 8 these numbers lose all the releveant properties. But yeah, complex numbers is extremely natural and useful extension to real numbers, the rest of numbers not so much.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Science is based on observation and experiment.

As to explaining the universe, we do not have enough information to reach a true scientific explanation and likely never will. The BB is a good theory as far as it goes, but it relies on a hypothetical set of unexplained initial conditions and is an extreme backwards extrapolation.

 

[Kharakov]

Since the human, and thus the human mind and what is thought by it, is caused by the universe.

Yeah, that's sort of a broad claim, huh?

Broad and obvious.

Best unstated?

 

[phands]

I am highly skeptical of using math/numerology as a starting point when trying to explain universe..
This particular attempt has failed too. And I would not equate importance of complex numbers with higher order things like quaternions.
Complex numbers have all the properties of real numbers except (obviously) ordering.
quaternions and higher order numbers do not have commutative property. And after dimension 8 these numbers lose all the releveant properties. But yeah, complex numbers is extremely natural and useful extension to real numbers, the rest of numbers not so much.

Math is NOT numerology. If you don't know that, you're already 1000% wrong; your grouping them together is suspicious.

And I completely disagree with your "not so much" dismissal.

 

[4321lynx]

I am highly skeptical of using math/numerology as a starting point when trying to explain universe..
This particular attempt has failed too. And I would not equate importance of complex numbers with higher order things like quaternions.
Complex numbers have all the properties of real numbers except (obviously) ordering.
quaternions and higher order numbers do not have commutative property. And after dimension 8 these numbers lose all the releveant properties. But yeah, complex numbers is extremely natural and useful extension to real numbers, the rest of numbers not so much.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Science is based on observation and experiment.

As to explaining the universe, we do not have enough information to reach a true scientific explanation and likely never will. The BB is a good theory as far as it goes, but it relies on a hypothetical set of unexplained initial conditions and is an extreme backwards extrapolation.

The information may, or may not, be "out there" but our human minds, products of our brains that are in turn products of evolution on planet Earth, have not evolved enough to receive, understand, fully map, and interpret such information. Except for bits and pieces here and there, understood by a minority of humans. And even those may be wrong. But we are on the right tracks, or all those things up there in the sky and beyond would not "fly". But whether our minds will ever "evolve", that is change, enough to do all those things mentioned above, is unknown.

 

[steve_bank]

I am highly skeptical of using math/numerology as a starting point when trying to explain universe..
This particular attempt has failed too. And I would not equate importance of complex numbers with higher order things like quaternions.
Complex numbers have all the properties of real numbers except (obviously) ordering.
quaternions and higher order numbers do not have commutative property. And after dimension 8 these numbers lose all the releveant properties. But yeah, complex numbers is extremely natural and useful extension to real numbers, the rest of numbers not so much.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Science is based on observation and experiment.

As to explaining the universe, we do not have enough information to reach a true scientific explanation and likely never will. The BB is a good theory as far as it goes, but it relies on a hypothetical set of unexplained initial conditions and is an extreme backwards extrapolation.

The information may, or may not, be "out there" but our human minds, products of our brains that are in turn products of evolution on planet Earth, have not evolved enough to receive, understand, fully map, and interpret such information. Except for bits and pieces here and there, understood by a minority of humans. And even those may be wrong. But we are on the right tracks, or all those things up there in the sky and beyond would not "fly". But whether our minds will ever "evolve", that is change, enough to do all those things mentioned above, is unknown.

Ever take a multiple choice exam where an answer to a question was 'not enough information'?

I do not think it is a matter of evolution. It is the scope of the cosmology problem. We have no idea what the true bounds of the universe is. We have know way of knowing if anything exists beyond what we can detect hear on Earth an infinitesimally small volume of space in the cosmos.

 

[barbos]

I am highly skeptical of using math/numerology as a starting point when trying to explain universe..
This particular attempt has failed too. And I would not equate importance of complex numbers with higher order things like quaternions.
Complex numbers have all the properties of real numbers except (obviously) ordering.
quaternions and higher order numbers do not have commutative property. And after dimension 8 these numbers lose all the releveant properties. But yeah, complex numbers is extremely natural and useful extension to real numbers, the rest of numbers not so much.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

It has nothing to do with the price of eggs.

Science is based on observation and experiment.

Yes, that's a good starting point.

As to explaining the universe, we do not have enough information to reach a true scientific explanation and likely never will. The BB is a good theory as far as it goes, but it relies on a hypothetical set of unexplained initial conditions and is an extreme backwards extrapolation.

Yes, but what does that have to do with the price of eggs?

 

[barbos]

I am highly skeptical of using math/numerology as a starting point when trying to explain universe..
This particular attempt has failed too. And I would not equate importance of complex numbers with higher order things like quaternions.
Complex numbers have all the properties of real numbers except (obviously) ordering.
quaternions and higher order numbers do not have commutative property. And after dimension 8 these numbers lose all the releveant properties. But yeah, complex numbers is extremely natural and useful extension to real numbers, the rest of numbers not so much.

Math is NOT numerology. If you don't know that, you're already 1000% wrong; your grouping them together is suspicious.

One can't be 1000% wrong, if you don't know that then you don't know math and really should not be lecturing others. When people blindly pick some math and start applying to physics it's numerology. Historically it has been tried but does not have good success rate.

And I completely disagree with your "not so much" dismissal.

Then you are completely 100% wrong.

 

[steve_bank]

It has nothing to do with the price of eggs.

Science is based on observation and experiment.

Yes, that's a good starting point.

As to explaining the universe, we do not have enough information to reach a true scientific explanation and likely never will. The BB is a good theory as far as it goes, but it relies on a hypothetical set of unexplained initial conditions and is an extreme backwards extrapolation.

Yes, but what does that have to do with the price of eggs?

It has to do with your sometimes crossing the line between science and the woo woo choo choo.

 

[barbos]

It has nothing to do with the price of eggs.

Yes, that's a good starting point.


Yes, but what does that have to do with the price of eggs?

It has to do with your sometimes crossing the line between science and the woo woo choo choo.

What is "woo woo choo choo"?

 

[phands]

When people blindly pick some math and start applying to physics it's numerology.

Just plain wrong. Numerology is horseshit.
Using mathematics to explain and predict physical phenomena is the normal way we engineer things. The laser diodes that make the internet work are based on quantum mechanical effects described by maths at a level of approximation good to enough to enable mass production in the millions with 99%+ yields.
GPS satellite time correction is a relativistic effect that causes the moving clocks on satellites to run slow at about 38 microseconds/day, leading to a positional error of around 10km/day. We use maths to predict and correct that.
Even Newtonian physics with simple math produces useful and reproducible results - buildings don't fall down that often.

Your antipathy toward math is starting to show, and that you didn't get the irony of 1000% when applied to numerology is disappointing.

 

[phands]

It has nothing to do with the price of eggs.

Yes, that's a good starting point.


Yes, but what does that have to do with the price of eggs?

It has to do with your sometimes crossing the line between science and the woo woo choo choo.

What is "woo woo choo choo"?

It's what you are riding.... https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo

 

[barbos]

When people blindly pick some math and start applying to physics it's numerology.

Just plain wrong. Numerology is horseshit.

Yes it is. I never said it was not.

Using mathematics to explain and predict physical phenomena is the normal way we engineer things.

That's fine, but that's not what I was referring to. Math is a tool, or rather large toolbox. One has to carefully and thoughtfully choose proper tool, not just take random one and insist on using it to the bitter end. Now theorists are prone to fall in love and stick with their theories , it's a known fact. That's basically what I was saying.

The laser diodes that make the internet work are based on quantum mechanical effects described by maths at a level of approximation good to enough to enable mass production in the millions with 99%+ yields.
GPS satellite time correction is a relativistic effect that causes the moving clocks on satellites to run slow at about 38 microseconds/day, leading to a positional error of around 10km/day. We use maths to predict and correct that.
Even Newtonian physics with simple math produces useful and reproducible results - buildings don't fall down that often.

Your antipathy toward math is starting to show, and that you didn't get the irony of 1000% when applied to numerology is disappointing.

You ARE aware that I have a PhD in physics?

- - - Updated - - -

What is "woo woo choo choo"?

It's what you are riding.... https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo

No, it's you, not me.

 

[steve_bank]

barbos

6 letters, 1/3 of 666 the beast. Barbos is the first of three harbingers of the end times.

 

[Elixir]

barbos

6 letters, 1/3 of 666 the beast. Barbos is the first of three harbingers of the end times.

barbos russia
We're 2/3 of the way there!!