Price Waterhouse analyst murdered in his home by police

[Loren Pechtel]

Door locks aside, I wonder if the lights were off upon her entering and whatever commotion had her reaching for her gun rather than the light switch, assuming there is a light switch immediately inside the entry.

Assuming an accident that makes a lot of sense. If she's got a weapon light she wouldn't have turned on the main light and thus probably not seen that it wasn't her place.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Why would she need a weapon light in a well-lit hallway when he opens the door in front of her face? This isn't the movie The Nun where an ancient evil can make a doorway impenetrably dark.

 

[Toni]

So, Don, you think this woman went through her building opening doors looking for Black people to shoot knowing she could fall back on this wonderful alibi?

Since we now have 2 threads on this trying to make this about the guy's race, I'm trying to work out exactly how people are assuming race figures in.

It's well established that white people often view black people, including women and children, as being threatening for just existing. Black children are often viewed as much more adult for their years than are white children.

I think a lot of people can sympathize or empathize with being in the position of accidentally entering the wrong apartment or wrong car (I've done the latter).

But to feel that one must immediately shoot an intruder? Particularly an intruder who politely opens the door and inquires if he can be of assistance? And of course in this case, the intruder was the police officer, not the lawful resident who opened the door to offer assistance.

No matter who the individual was, this is outrageous. It likely would not have happened if the person entering the wrong apartment had not been armed. It is certainly indefensible that this young man's life was taken in such a terrible and unnecessary way by someone (again, an armed white police officer) who made a mistake. The mistake in apartment is understandable. Shooting someone is not.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The mistake in apartment is understandable. Shooting someone is not.

That's it precisely. She'll probably get off with a wrist slap because she was afraid for her life, yada, yada, yada.

 

[dismal]

So, Don, you think this woman went through her building opening doors looking for Black people to shoot knowing she could fall back on this wonderful alibi?

Since we now have 2 threads on this trying to make this about the guy's race, I'm trying to work out exactly how people are assuming race figures in.

It's well established that white people often view black people, including women and children, as being threatening for just existing. Black children are often viewed as much more adult for their years than are white children.

I think a lot of people can sympathize or empathize with being in the position of accidentally entering the wrong apartment or wrong car (I've done the latter).

But to feel that one must immediately shoot an intruder? Particularly an intruder who politely opens the door and inquires if he can be of assistance? And of course in this case, the intruder was the police officer, not the lawful resident who opened the door to offer assistance.

No matter who the individual was, this is outrageous. It likely would not have happened if the person entering the wrong apartment had not been armed. It is certainly indefensible that this young man's life was taken in such a terrible and unnecessary way by someone (again, an armed white police officer) who made a mistake. The mistake in apartment is understandable. Shooting someone is not.

According to the woman, she thought she was in her own apartment. Thus, she thought the man was an unknown intruder in her apartment late at night.

It is a fucking enormous stretch from there to assume his race mattered to her.

I hope I have dumbed that down enough for even people here to get it.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So, Don, you think this woman went through her building opening doors looking for Black people to shoot knowing she could fall back on this wonderful alibi?

Since we now have 2 threads on this trying to make this about the guy's race, I'm trying to work out exactly how people are assuming race figures in.

It's well established that white people often view black people, including women and children, as being threatening for just existing. Black children are often viewed as much more adult for their years than are white children.

I think a lot of people can sympathize or empathize with being in the position of accidentally entering the wrong apartment or wrong car (I've done the latter).

But to feel that one must immediately shoot an intruder? Particularly an intruder who politely opens the door and inquires if he can be of assistance? And of course in this case, the intruder was the police officer, not the lawful resident who opened the door to offer assistance.

No matter who the individual was, this is outrageous. It likely would not have happened if the person entering the wrong apartment had not been armed. It is certainly indefensible that this young man's life was taken in such a terrible and unnecessary way by someone (again, an armed white police officer) who made a mistake. The mistake in apartment is understandable. Shooting someone is not.

According to the woman, she thought she was in her own apartment. Thus, she thought the man was an unknown intruder in her apartment late at night.

It is a fucking enormous stretch from there to assume his race mattered to her.

I hope I have dumbed that down enough for even people here to get it.

So you are saying Toni and I are stupid.

 

[zorq]

According to the woman, she thought she was in her own apartment. Thus, she thought the man was an intruder in her apartment late at night.

It is a fucking enormous stretch from there to assume his race mattered to her.

I hope I have dumbed that down enough for even people here to get it.

If the woman had seen a white female toddler dressed in a pink tutu behind the door would she have shot her?
If the woman had seen a geriatric grandfather with a 90 degree hunch, propped up with a cane, a beard down to the floor, would she have shot?

I think there are attributes that suspected intruders may possess that will contribute to the decision to shoot or not shoot. Don't you agree? Isn't it conceivable then that skin color might have been an attribute that contributed to this female officer shooting this suspected intruder?

It really isn't an enormous stretch. Racism exists.

 

[dismal]

According to the woman, she thought she was in her own apartment. Thus, she thought the man was an intruder in her apartment late at night.

It is a fucking enormous stretch from there to assume his race mattered to her.

I hope I have dumbed that down enough for even people here to get it.

If the woman had seen a white female toddler dressed in a pink tutu behind the door would she have shot her?
If the woman had seen a geriatric grandfather with a 90 degree hunch, propped up with a cane, a beard down to the floor, would she have shot?

I think there are attributes that suspected intruders may possess that will contribute to the decision to shoot or not shoot. Don't you agree? Isn't it conceivable then that skin color might have been an attribute that contributed to this female officer shooting this suspected intruder?

It really isn't an enormous stretch. Racism exists.

Do you think she'd have shot a black toddler in a pink tutu? A black geriatric grandfather with a 90 degree hunch?

I guess if you believe she shoots people based on their race you believe she would have.

Racism exists, therefore she would have shot a black girl in a tutu.

Back in reality: This was an unknown young adult male. I you want to argue she was biased against young males versus girls in tutus, you might have a coherent point. Though I suppose it's fairly reasonable for a woman to be more alarmed by an unknown young adult male in her apartment late at night than a young girl in a tutu. *gasp* I made a statement that is true regardless of race!

You don't seem to get the whole concept of logic. Racism exists, but lots of bad shit happens to people that has nothing to do with racism too.

 

[Underseer]

so this is hitting news sites now and more details are being reported.

so the story goes: at 10pm an off-duty officer who had just gotten off shift went home, says she accidentally walked into the wrong apartment, saw someone she didn't know, and fatally shot him.
... which kind of sounds like a giant load of complete fucking bullshit to me.

the idea of going from "just coming from work" to "being in the wrong apartment and not realizing it" to "instantly pulling out a weapon and scoring a fatal shot on seeing someone" is just ludicrous to me.
i suspect there is going to end up being a story here, that the officer and victim had a history - wouldn't be surprised to find out they'd been recently dating or sleeping together or something, basically i'd be shocked if this wasn't a revenge killing that the officer is trying to play off as an accident.

Is there any act of police brutality that you can't cook up a just-so story for?

If you're going to use an ad hoc fallacy to justify the unjustifiable, can't you at least specify an alternate explanation? No? You're just going to assume the African-American must somehow be in the wrong without having a single scrap of evidence that this is actually the case.

Sure.

Whatever.

I'm sure you're not grasping at straws and humiliating yourself with pretzel logic because you're racist. That can't possibly be the case. I'm sure there is an innocent explanation for what you are doing that does not involve racism.

https://www.manta.com/c/mm2xm30/city-of-shawneetown

In other news, the cop has been arrested and charged with manslaughter. Sadly, your ad hoc fallacy might be a valid defense if past acts of police brutality are anything to go by.

 

[Toni]

So, Don, you think this woman went through her building opening doors looking for Black people to shoot knowing she could fall back on this wonderful alibi?

Since we now have 2 threads on this trying to make this about the guy's race, I'm trying to work out exactly how people are assuming race figures in.

It's well established that white people often view black people, including women and children, as being threatening for just existing. Black children are often viewed as much more adult for their years than are white children.

I think a lot of people can sympathize or empathize with being in the position of accidentally entering the wrong apartment or wrong car (I've done the latter).

But to feel that one must immediately shoot an intruder? Particularly an intruder who politely opens the door and inquires if he can be of assistance? And of course in this case, the intruder was the police officer, not the lawful resident who opened the door to offer assistance.

No matter who the individual was, this is outrageous. It likely would not have happened if the person entering the wrong apartment had not been armed. It is certainly indefensible that this young man's life was taken in such a terrible and unnecessary way by someone (again, an armed white police officer) who made a mistake. The mistake in apartment is understandable. Shooting someone is not.

According to the woman, she thought she was in her own apartment. Thus, she thought the man was an unknown intruder in her apartment late at night.

It is a fucking enormous stretch from there to assume his race mattered to her.

I hope I have dumbed that down enough for even people here to get it.

I’m well aware of what she claimed happened and why. I’m not dumb enough to believe that if the person who opened the door to HIS OWN APARTMENT had been a white womanizer or a small child or even a nice looking white man that she would have shot him.

I don’t think you’re that dumb, either.

Frankly if I came home from a long day at work , opened my own door to find someone I didn’t recognize inside, I would have asked questions, not killed them.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

According to the woman, she thought she was in her own apartment.

dismal, the hallway isn't her apartment. That is, she did NOT say she thought she was "in her" apartment. We are not sure she entered and based on eyewitness testimony it is likely she stayed in the hallway.

 

[Derec]

In other news, the cop has been arrested and charged with manslaughter. Sadly, your ad hoc fallacy might be a valid defense if past acts of police brutality are anything to go by.

Did you even read what prideandfall was saying? His scenario makes the cop more guilty, not less. Revenge killing >> accidental killing.

 

[zorq]

According to the woman, she thought she was in her own apartment. Thus, she thought the man was an intruder in her apartment late at night.

It is a fucking enormous stretch from there to assume his race mattered to her.

I hope I have dumbed that down enough for even people here to get it.

If the woman had seen a white female toddler dressed in a pink tutu behind the door would she have shot her?
If the woman had seen a geriatric grandfather with a 90 degree hunch, propped up with a cane, a beard down to the floor, would she have shot?

I think there are attributes that suspected intruders may possess that will contribute to the decision to shoot or not shoot. Don't you agree? Isn't it conceivable then that skin color might have been an attribute that contributed to this female officer shooting this suspected intruder?

It really isn't an enormous stretch. Racism exists.

Do you think she'd have shot a black toddler in a pink tutu? A black geriatric grandfather with a 90 degree hunch?

I guess if you believe she shoots people based on their race you believe she would have.

Racism exists, therefore she would have shot a black girl in a tutu.

You see, you are losing here because your fallacy is that of the excluded middle. People are either fair and not racist or they murder the subjects of their prejudice on sight? No. Racism like almost every human attribute exists on a spectrum. When you ignore this you inevitably misunderstand my point.

Back in reality: This was an unknown young adult male. I you want to argue she was biased against young males versus girls in tutus, you might have a coherent point. Though I suppose it's fairly reasonable for a woman to be more alarmed by an unknown young adult male in her apartment late at night than a young girl in a tutu. *gasp* I made a statement that is true regardless of race!

You don't seem to get the whole concept of logic.

You're the one making logical fallacies.

Racism exists, but lots of bad shit happens to people that has nothing to do with racism too.

Look, I didn't say the only reason the guy was shot was because of his race. I said that there are many factors. You are denying racism as being a "fucking enormous stretch" of a factor. I don't think it is. Many people are motivated, in whole or in part, to all kinds of horrible things because of racism.

Just because there are factors that are more likely to have contributed to the shooting doesn't mean that race wasn't a factor. Note that I am not saying, "Race was the only factor." or "Race was the deciding factor." Or "Race was definitely a factor." I'm just saying that your characterization of race being an extremely unlikely factor is misguided.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Jean's unit has a red half-circle mat outside the door. Jean's neighbor Alyssa Kinsey said she, too has parked on the wrong floor of the complex, but always realized her mistake upon seeing the different floor mats.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dal...ficer-shot-manin-home-know-questions-answered

Amber Guyger, 30, was arrested Sunday in Kaufman County and admitted at 7:20 p.m. to the Kaufman County Jail. She has been charged with manslaughter, Texas Department of Public Safety Lt. Lonny Haschel said.

Guyger's bail had been set at $300,000. She was no longer listed in jail records by 8:30 p.m.

...

Dallas police Chief U. Renee Hall said Saturday that a judge had not yet signed a warrant for Guyger because the Texas Rangers, which took over the investigation Friday, had learned new information and wanted to first investigate further.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/cri...rested-fatally-shooting-botham-jean-apartment

I bet police did her a favor by not arresting her until she could get bond money. I wonder what Texas Rangers know or if they care. She should have noticed mat colors would be different.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1038128986440835073

Guess his race. Go on, guess!

It's rather sad how much pleasure you get from these stories.

Personally I think this story is tragic, but to each their own.

 

[repoman]

https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1038128986440835073

Guess his race. Go on, guess!

It's rather sad how much pleasure you get from these stories.

Personally I think this story is tragic, but to each their own.

Shaun King's race?

Looks like an octaroon to me.

 

[Derec]

Hell hath no fury ...

... than a Derec?

No. Like a woman scorned. Although this case doesn't appear to be a case of that.

 

[ruby sparks]

https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1038128986440835073

Guess his race. Go on, guess!

Yes, this is a post on Twitter, but it's a post on Twitter by a journalist.

No, the journalist doesn't work for FOX News.

Not every shooting of a black person is a racial issue. This one may or may not be. On the face of it, there is not much if anything to indicate it was.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1038128986440835073

Guess his race. Go on, guess!

Yes, this is a post on Twitter, but it's a post on Twitter by a journalist.

No, the journalist doesn't work for FOX News.

Not every shooting of a black person is a racial issue. This one may or may not be. On the face of it, there is not much if anything to indicate it was.

If a white lady answered the door, would she have been killed? This isn't a rhetorical question. Though I think we may be dealing with probabilities and factors here, I'd like to hear your answer.

Next question is why the unnecessary killing? I mean, taking out a gun is one thing. Actually shooting to kill someone is something else.

Also, what was up with the pacing back and forth rather than applying emergency first aid? Is it because he was running away into the apartment when she shot him and thus the door closed after him? The police tend to shoot people, minorities included, when the victims are running away and we've seen this before. Do you think that is reasonable?

I have no statistics, but we've come across a lot of stories involving minorities running away and/or being shot in the back, even if unarmed.

 

[ruby sparks]

https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1038128986440835073

Guess his race. Go on, guess!

Yes, this is a post on Twitter, but it's a post on Twitter by a journalist.

No, the journalist doesn't work for FOX News.

Not every shooting of a black person is a racial issue. This one may or may not be. On the face of it, there is not much if anything to indicate it was.

If a white lady answered the door, would she have been killed? This isn't a rhetorical question. Though I think we may be dealing with probabilities and factors here, I'd like to hear your answer.

Next question is why the unnecessary killing? I mean, taking out a gun is one thing. Actually shooting to kill someone is something else.

Also, what was up with the pacing back and forth rather than applying emergency first aid? Is it because he was running away into the apartment when she shot him and thus the door closed after him? The police tend to shoot people, minorities included, when the victims are running away and we've seen this before. Do you think that is reasonable?

I have no statistics, but we've come across a lot of stories involving minorities running away and/or being shot in the back, even if unarmed.

And?