Are women more fearful of crime than men and, if so, should they be?

[Axulus]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes, but men are more likely to be victims of violent assault, gun crime, murder, etc. Overall, men are slightly more likely to be victims of violent crime than women.

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6166

Based on the curfew thread, the general consensus was that men generally don't take many precautions to protect themselves from crime while many women plan out their whole night out to minimize their chance of becoming a victim of a crime.

Given victimization rates overall are similar, what accounts for such a discrepancy?

Are sexual assaults more scary then armed robbery and stabbings (the crimes that women face are to be objectively feared more)?

Are men being unwisely oblivious to becoming a victim and not properly preparing when they go out?

Are women being overly fearful? If so, do we have a culture of fear that teaches women to be more fearful?

Is there anything I'm missing in the victimization data?

 

[Worldtraveller]

Is there anything I'm missing in the victimization data?

Yes, lots. Like when you're looking at data like that, you're not including all of the incidents that don't get reported. The reasons things don't get reported are many and varied, and don't really matter, but yes, you're missing a lot.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

A key question would be if those men who are victims of violence tend to be so because of a rivalry they have and if violence women face is more about targeting them because they are women or because they are attractive, etc.

If put in a new city where they know nobody, which would be more likely to be a victim of violence?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes, but men are more likely to be victims of violent assault, gun crime, murder, etc. Overall, men are slightly more likely to be victims of violent crime than women.

Doesn't your first sentence answer the implicit questions asked in the second and third sentences?

 

[Axulus]

Is there anything I'm missing in the victimization data?

Yes, lots. Like when you're looking at data like that, you're not including all of the incidents that don't get reported. The reasons things don't get reported are many and varied, and don't really matter, but yes, you're missing a lot.

This is a victimization survey. It doesn't look at what was reported to the police but rather asks a random sample of people if they have ever been a victim of various crimes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes...

Are women being overly fearful?

1) Women are afraid of being victims of harassment and sex crimes.
2) The data do not show women are more likely to be victimized by violent crime.
3) Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes.
4) Are women being overly fearful of sex crimes?

We are living amidst the Cambrian Explosion of stupidity.

The first fucking thing right-wingers ask when a woman is raped or sexually assaulted is "What could she have done to prevent it?" And now we are seeing multiple threads whining about how paranoid women are regarding sex crime prevention measures they take. I mean seriously, how fucking stupid are you people?!

 

[Axulus]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes...

Are women being overly fearful?

1) Women are afraid of being victims of harassment and sex crimes.
2) The data do not show women are more likely to be victimized by violent crime.
3) Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes.
4) Are women being overly fearful of sex crimes?

We are living amidst the Cambrian Explosion of stupidity.

The first fucking thing right-wingers ask when a woman is raped or sexually assaulted is "What could she have done to prevent it?" And now we are seeing multiple threads whining about how paranoid women are regarding sex crime prevention measures they take. I mean seriously, how fucking stupid are you people?!

Did anyone ask Dr. Ford what she should've done to prevent her assault? Where are all these people asking women what they should've done to prevent their assault? Is this just a left wing myth or do you have a peer reviewed study to show us that demonstrates it?

 

[Axulus]

A key question would be if those men who are victims of violence tend to be so because of a rivalry they have and if violence women face is more about targeting them because they are women or because they are attractive, etc.

If put in a new city where they know nobody, which would be more likely to be a victim of violence?

This may be the case but do know it to be true one way or another?

 

[Axulus]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes, but men are more likely to be victims of violent assault, gun crime, murder, etc. Overall, men are slightly more likely to be victims of violent crime than women.

Doesn't your first sentence answer the implicit questions asked in the second and third sentences?

Can you elaborate? Also, not sure how any of what I wrote answers whether fear of crime by women is justified.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes, but men are more likely to be victims of violent assault, gun crime, murder, etc. Overall, men are slightly more likely to be victims of violent crime than women.

Doesn't your first sentence answer the implicit questions asked in the second and third sentences?

Can you elaborate? Also, not sure how any of what I wrote answers whether fear of crime by women is justified.

No, I mean if women are taking more precautions against violent crime than men, then wouldn't it be logical that that they end up being the victims of violent crime less often?

So the answer would be that yes, their fear is justified because a group which doesn't take the same precautions they tend to do tends to get victimized more, so the precautions they take because of these fears seem to be working.

 

[Lion IRC]

If women are more fearful of crime than men they need to have men with them for protection.
...especially at night.

Sadly there's a splinter group of feminazis trying to 'splain to their dumb sisters that men and women should not be seen together in public after dark.

The Taliban would probably agree.

 

[ruby sparks]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes, but men are more likely to be victims of violent assault, gun crime, murder, etc. Overall, men are slightly more likely to be victims of violent crime than women.

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6166

Based on the curfew thread, the general consensus was that men generally don't take many precautions to protect themselves from crime while many women plan out their whole night out to minimize their chance of becoming a victim of a crime.

Given victimization rates overall are similar, what accounts for such a discrepancy?

Are sexual assaults more scary then armed robbery and stabbings (the crimes that women face are to be objectively feared more)?

Are men being unwisely oblivious to becoming a victim and not properly preparing when they go out?

Are women being overly fearful? If so, do we have a culture of fear that teaches women to be more fearful?

Is there anything I'm missing in the victimization data?

I would say that there's a lot in there to untangle and in the issue generally. I would also say that some of the things you suggest are at least partly true. For example that girls and women may be, to some extent, 'taught' to be more fearful than boys and men are. But I would be wary of making this a blanket agreement. By the same token it might be said that boys and men are by their nature less cautious, more comfortable with taking and perhaps enjoying physical risks. The whole thing is very complicated and nuanced.

Also, women, by and large, are smaller and less muscular than men. That might partly explain them being more afraid. Generalising here of course.

About statistics, I don't know and I don't know if anybody knows how much low level harassment goes on, so it may be true that women in general do have more reason to be careful, especially if, as would be my guess, sometimes it's that certain things make them uncomfortable (as opposed to them fearing for their lives or about physical assault for example).

Finally, what would be wrong with just saying that if a lot of women do feel they need to take precautions we should just accept that they probably have good reasons to do this?

Or, what about not making it quite so much about men vs women again? Not that it isn't valid, but it gets a bit boring after a while and often (not necessarily because of the OP's good intentions) turns into Groundhog Day infighting.

Most boring (to me) is the Republicans vs Democrats or the Right Wing vs Left Wing thing.

[/tuppenceworth]

 

[TV and credit cards]

If women are more fearful of crime than men they need to have men with them for protection.
...especially at night.

Perhaps there's truth to this. When faced with a criminal psychopath, men tend to take a fight of flight response. Women tend to try and talk their way out of the situation. Naturally. Women are less likely to win a fight or out run their attacker. Problem is of course, empathy isn’t a strong trait present in the criminal mind.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes...

Are women being overly fearful?

1) Women are afraid of being victims of harassment and sex crimes.
2) The data do not show women are more likely to be victimized by violent crime.
3) Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes.
4) Are women being overly fearful of sex crimes?

We are living amidst the Cambrian Explosion of stupidity.

The first fucking thing right-wingers ask when a woman is raped or sexually assaulted is "What could she have done to prevent it?" And now we are seeing multiple threads whining about how paranoid women are regarding sex crime prevention measures they take. I mean seriously, how fucking stupid are you people?!

Did anyone ask Dr. Ford what she should've done to prevent her assault?

Naw, they are too busy finding her testimony compelling and credible while defending Kavanaugh’s accusation of this being a conspiracy. Though a lot of others think this was boys just being boys too.

Where are all these people asking women what they should've done to prevent their assault?

In every thread about the subject.

Is this just a left wing myth or do you have a peer reviewed study to show us that demonstrates it?

*sigh*

 

[barbos]

It's not like men can walk at night like it's a mall at 2PM. Drunk young people are pretty common scene at night.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes, but men are more likely to be victims of violent assault, gun crime, murder, etc. Overall, men are slightly more likely to be victims of violent crime than women.

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6166

Based on the curfew thread, the general consensus was that men generally don't take many precautions to protect themselves from crime while many women plan out their whole night out to minimize their chance of becoming a victim of a crime.

Given victimization rates overall are similar, what accounts for such a discrepancy?

Are sexual assaults more scary then armed robbery and stabbings (the crimes that women face are to be objectively feared more)?

Are men being unwisely oblivious to becoming a victim and not properly preparing when they go out?

Are women being overly fearful? If so, do we have a culture of fear that teaches women to be more fearful?

Is there anything I'm missing in the victimization data?

Women tend to score higher on neuroticism on the big five test. So it's normal for women to be more irrationally and rationally afraid than men. Of everything. All humans fucking suck at doing accurate risk aseessement. So it's not like men are better at this. But they are less afraid. Which is why it's mostly men who do extreme sports

Men are more likely to be criminals. Since the victims of most violent crime, are other criminals, this would mean that women have less to worry about than men. So it's irrational.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Men are more likely to be criminals. Since the victims of most violent crime, are other criminals, this would mean that women have less to worry about than men. So it's irrational.

But is it irrational? Women's worries about victimization tend to cause them to take more precautions and then they end up being victimized less. That would seem to be the exact opposite of irrational. Men's tendency to not worry so much about it looks like the more irrational thing because they then take less precautions and end up being victims more often.

Saying that their worries about victimization are irrational is like saying that it's irrational that people who drive the speed limit also tend to wear seatbelts more often than those who speed. Since their slower driving leads to fewer accidents, it's kind of silly for them to then go and have all of these illogical worries about what would happen to them in a crash because it's not so much of an issue for them. Both things are actually parcelled together into what causes fewer accidents.

It's the same with victimization. If one group is more afraid and takes more precautions against becoming a victim and then ends up being victimized less, I fail to see the irrationality in the situation.

 

[Jarhyn]

I live in a fairly rough part of my city. I'll occasionally hear gunshots, though more often, fireworks, and have received some ambiguous social overtures regarding my bike ("gimmie that bike", "hey, gimmie back my bike!": compliment or attempted mugging? Pretty sure it's a compliment given the context, but it's not a good cultural precedent).

Thing is, I don't FEAR crime, or being a victim. More, I expect it to happen and am almost always prepared for it. When I have my bike, I have an articulated steel bike lock with a foot and a half of swing on it, ready at a moment's notice. On foot, my phone is too shit to steal, and I don't have a whole lot of Dosh available in any of my accounts.

It's not that I have to plan my evening around crime and criminality, rather I shape a part of my whole life around adapting to, responding to, and preventing crime from happening to me. It's not that I don't think about it. I think a lot about how the edge of an iPhone in an Otterbox would make a pretty handy striking implement, or other, much more practical surprises waiting in my pockets. And if all else, or my confidence, fails, I can run at least five blocks without slowing down and I can keep jogging after that for much further still. It isn't that I am not afraid of violence happening to me, it's more that I feel comfortable with the planning I have done in the case of its eventuality.

So I would say that, for those who fear going out, if they want such a level of confident security in their life, they need to start not with trying to avoid violence and violent interactions, but start thinking about what they should do when it inevitably happens to them. Put your phone in a violence-friendly case and learn to use a handaxe. Put a brick in your purse (one with corners!). Wear some running shoes. Practice with your weapons occasionally, too: Put that brick in a different bag, one you care about less, and kill some small trees.

It isn't about being unafraid, it's about being prepared. It doesn't take a lot to fuck someone up pretty bad, you just have to have thought through how to accomplish it first. I get that isn't really a thing encouraged among women, but you can be damn sure that if I have a daughter, she isn't going out with at least a can of mace, and also possibly my actual mace. Or at least a steel baton. And she's going to know how to use them.

 

[Toni]

Women are more likely to be victims of certain kinds of crime. Those types of crime are also the types of crime that women are blamed for being victimized by. For women to take special precautions is rational.

In the case of rape and sexual assault, people are far more likely to be victimized by people they know to some degree. Actually, people are more likely to be murdered by people they know.

Most people who commit violent crimes: rape, assault, murder, are men.

The reasonable conclusion is that men are more violent and more likely to commit violent criminal acts than are women.

One logical conclusion might be that it is men who should be restricted in their freedoms rather than women. This would protect men who are likely to become victims and also protect all people from men who are more likely to be criminal.


Interestingly enough, the proposals are never to restrict the freedoms and movements of men. When someone posted a thread about how women might react if men were under a 9 p.m. curfew, some participants just about lost their minds. Unfortunately, they were not able to take the next step and contemplate that this is how women feel: one must not go out alone after dark and if you do go out at night, you should go with someone, preferably a man. Even though men and men you know are more likely to rape/murder you. The being attacked mostly by men and men you know also applies to men but they are not socialized to blame themselves if they are attacked or to restrict their movements because they might be attacked.


Members of the LGBTQ community have a higher victimization rate than do straight/cis people. But we don't suggest restricting their movements.

We suggest restricting movements of women, especially white women. Because we want to protect white women? I don't think that's it.

That said, whenever I've lived in more urban areas, everyone I knew--regardless of gender-- was very careful about avoiding certain areas or certain areas after dark because of the high crime rate in those areas.

 

[RVonse]

If women are more fearful of crime than men they need to have men with them for protection.
...especially at night.

Sadly there's a splinter group of feminazis trying to 'splain to their dumb sisters that men and women should not be seen together in public after dark.

The Taliban would probably agree.

Agree with this.

But more relevant to the OP. Its a biological fact men are risk takers and women the opposite. Which directly explains why women are more afraid of the possibility of trouble. Even though reality proves their pecautions are probably not justified for the amount of trouble they actually encounter. At least as compared to trouble encountered by men.