Are women more fearful of crime than men and, if so, should they be?

[Toni]

If women are more fearful of crime than men they need to have men with them for protection.
...especially at night.

Sadly there's a splinter group of feminazis trying to 'splain to their dumb sisters that men and women should not be seen together in public after dark.

The Taliban would probably agree.

Agree with this.

But more relevant to the OP. Its a biological fact men are risk takers and women the opposite. Which directly explains why women are more afraid of the possibility of trouble. Even though reality proves their pecautions are probably not justified for the amount of trouble they actually encounter. At least as compared to trouble encountered by men.

No, it is not a biological fact that men are risk takers and women are the opposite.

- - - Updated - - -

Men are more likely to be criminals. Since the victims of most violent crime, are other criminals, this would mean that women have less to worry about than men. So it's irrational.

But is it irrational? Women's worries about victimization tend to cause them to take more precautions and then they end up being victimized less. That would seem to be the exact opposite of irrational. Men's tendency to not worry so much about it looks like the more irrational thing because they then take less precautions and end up being victims more often.

Saying that their worries about victimization are irrational is like saying that it's irrational that people who drive the speed limit also tend to wear seatbelts more often than those who speed. Since their slower driving leads to fewer accidents, it's kind of silly for them to then go and have all of these illogical worries about what would happen to them in a crash because it's not so much of an issue for them. Both things are actually parcelled together into what causes fewer accidents.

It's the same with victimization. If one group is more afraid and takes more precautions against becoming a victim and then ends up being victimized less, I fail to see the irrationality in the situation.

Exactly.

 

[Worldtraveller]

The first fucking thing right-wingers ask when a woman is raped or sexually assaulted is "What could she have done to prevent it?" And now we are seeing multiple threads whining about how paranoid women are regarding sex crime prevention measures they take. I mean seriously, how fucking stupid are you people?!

Never ask this question, they'll take it as a challenge.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Men are more likely to be criminals. Since the victims of most violent crime, are other criminals, this would mean that women have less to worry about than men. So it's irrational.

But is it irrational? Women's worries about victimization tend to cause them to take more precautions and then they end up being victimized less. That would seem to be the exact opposite of irrational. Men's tendency to not worry so much about it looks like the more irrational thing because they then take less precautions and end up being victims more often.

Saying that their worries about victimization are irrational is like saying that it's irrational that people who drive the speed limit also tend to wear seatbelts more often than those who speed. Since their slower driving leads to fewer accidents, it's kind of silly for them to then go and have all of these illogical worries about what would happen to them in a crash because it's not so much of an issue for them. Both things are actually parcelled together into what causes fewer accidents.

It's the same with victimization. If one group is more afraid and takes more precautions against becoming a victim and then ends up being victimized less, I fail to see the irrationality in the situation.

I'm going to ask if the study being cited corrected for things like criminal behavior on the part of the victims. Did it account for (mostly) men who are in gangs that are almost guaranteed to be a victim (and participant) in violence?

If the study is limited to victims who haven't or don't participate in violent crime at all, it may change the results, and may justify the so called hysteria/paranoia of women. Of course, if the paranoia actually turns out to be reasonable precautions, will those men mis-characterizing it as paranoia change their tune?

 

[southernhybrid]

Where I live, I see many men openly carrying guns. A lot more of them carry concealed weapons. Far fewer women have concealed carry permits. To me, that is at least a bit of evidence that men are more fearful of crime than women.

Women are just more fearful of being sexually assaulted, especially when they are out alone at night. Far more women are sexually assaulted than men. Statistically speaking, men are physically stronger than women, so it's rational for women to be more cautious than men when they are outside at night and alone. This is especially true if you've ever been sexually assaulted, threatened with sexual assault or been sexually harassed by strange men at night.


Until recently, my husband almost always had a concealed gun when we were out at night. He finally decided to let his carry permit expire. ( yay ) He worries about the doors being locked. He forgot to lock the front door one night this past week and he was freaking out. I told him not to worry because we live in a low crime area and it's very unlikely that thieves are lurking in the area just waiting for him to forget to lock the door. Men are statistically far more violent than women. Maybe that's why they are more afraid of violent crime more than we are. Most men will never admit that they are afraid of crime. If they have no fear, then they should stop carrying guns and feel perfectly free to go into high crime areas late at night. Yeah, like that's going to happen. Men are certainly no more rational than women. If fact, it's my strong opinion that men tend to be far more irrational than women. They claim we are emotional, but many men have very difficult problems controlling their anger. Anger is a far more dangerous emotion that the emotions that women are accused of having. Anger often leads to road rage, and violence. Crying not so much. Crying is more about having empathy.

I like having my husband with me at night due to my past experiences, but if I had a female companion with me, I'd also feel safe. There is usually more safety in numbers. This isn't always the case, but when two or more women are out together, there is a lot less chance that they will be sexually assaulted.

 

[ronburgundy]

Based on the curfew thread, a large percentage of women are afraid to go out at night for fear of being victim of a crime (usually perpetrated by men), whether that crime be harassment or full on sex crimes involving violence.

Yet the data do not show women to be more likely to be victimized by violent crime in general.

Women are more likely to be victims of sex crimes, but men are more likely to be victims of violent assault, gun crime, murder, etc. Overall, men are slightly more likely to be victims of violent crime than women.

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6166

Based on the curfew thread, the general consensus was that men generally don't take many precautions to protect themselves from crime while many women plan out their whole night out to minimize their chance of becoming a victim of a crime.

Given victimization rates overall are similar, what accounts for such a discrepancy?

Are sexual assaults more scary then armed robbery and stabbings (the crimes that women face are to be objectively feared more)?

Are men being unwisely oblivious to becoming a victim and not properly preparing when they go out?

Are women being overly fearful? If so, do we have a culture of fear that teaches women to be more fearful?

Is there anything I'm missing in the victimization data?

Women tend to score higher on neuroticism on the big five test. So it's normal for women to be more irrationally and rationally afraid than men. Of everything. All humans fucking suck at doing accurate risk aseessement. So it's not like men are better at this. But they are less afraid. Which is why it's mostly men who do extreme sports

Men are more likely to be criminals. Since the victims of most violent crime, are other criminals, this would mean that women have less to worry about than men. So it's irrational.

It isn't nearly that simple.

If men are far more engaged in crime (and they are) and thus "victims" of other criminals as a result, then it is highly probable that fewer female victims are victims due to being criminals themselves. Thus, when women are victimized, it is usually when they are doing nothing wrong and can do little to avoid it. Plus, once the attack begins, women can do less to protect themselves, while many men at least think they will be able to.

Fear is triggered more when the danger is uncertain, harder to control/avoid, and you think you will be helpless to stop it.

This would make it rational for women to be more fearful of being victimized.

OTOH, women are more than twice as likely to be victimized by people they are intimate with, family and friends, than by strangers. And this is far more true for woman than for men. This makes it more rational for women to fear being home with their husband, brother, father, or other male acquaintances than walking down the street at night. So, this does relate to that "curfew" thread in the sense that if males were forced to be at home by 9pm, that would mean even more rapes and assaults on women, because they would be spending more time alone with the men in their lives who commit most of these crimes.

But on a third hand (imagine some alien arguing), most women think they have vetted the men in their lives, and in fact most women have because most men don't rape and beat the women in their lives. So, for most women, the only plausible source of threat is from strangers.

Besides all this, it isn't clear women are more afraid. They just react to that fear differently. Men carry guns and are on the ready for a confrontation (and thus more easily to triggered to start one). And men may feel just as threatened but feel more anger than fear about it.

In sum, its hard to say whether women are or rationally should feel more threatened than men when walking down the street at night or hanging out in a bar.
But in general, there is tons of irrational fear by most people, and when there are political and ideological issues tied to it, then the odds of irrationality go through the roof. Unless one is in a particularly high crime neighborhood where everyone has reason to be constantly afraid, being afraid while walking down the street at night is likely irrational and you should spend your effort worrying about more probable threats like heart disease or the fact that your constant worrying is killing you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Where I live, I see many men openly carrying guns. A lot more of them carry concealed weapons. Far fewer women have concealed carry permits. To me, that is at least a bit of evidence that men are more fearful of crime than women.

I can't comment on concealed carry but here every person I have seen open carrying has been female.

That being said, I can see one important difference the OP overlooks:

For a guy, most of how to avoid being a crime victim comes down to lifestyle (don't associate with criminals) and staying out of the bad parts of town. Thus there is little day-to-day crime avoidance. Sex crimes, however, aren't nearly so confined to the bad parts of town.

 

[Angry Floof]

There's a very easy way of finding out why women are more afraid of being the victim of a crime then men. In fact, the board is full of threads and posts that could give you a clue, not to mention the thousands of posts on other media.

We could post a million graphic stories from women and a number of men here still would not acknowledge them. It's easier to just pretend it's "a woman thing" and pretend it's not relevant to you. Even easier if you're a sociopathic incel shitposter.

That said, I deeply appreciate those men who are sympathetic. Some of you speak out and challenge your fellow men and some of you decide to be quiet and listen to women and that is appreciated. It's progress.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

A key question would be if those men who are victims of violence tend to be so because of a rivalry they have and if violence women face is more about targeting them because they are women or because they are attractive, etc.

If put in a new city where they know nobody, which would be more likely to be a victim of violence?

This may be the case but do know it to be true one way or another?

I don't have data on it, but it makes intuitive sense and I have difficulty pondering that it could be the reverse.

If you have a random male and a female, same age, same socioeconomic status, same clothing, same attractiveness level, walking down the street, and both know nobody else and have no rivals, I can't fathom the male being more targeted than the female for any crime other than maybe a drunk looking for a fight. What other crimes would you expect the male to be targeted for but not the female? The female is going to be more targeted for sex crimes.

I think overall, men are the victims of crime more because they have rivals, are engaged in dangerous behaviour or alliances, etc. In other words, more of them kind of bring it on themselves. Women, not as often.

 

[WAB]

I've worked in healthcare for 30 plus years, where the majority of staff are women. I would say, judging by their testimony, and comparing it with what I've heard from men, that yes, they are far more fearful of crime. At various places of work, and especially on night shift, the female employees would invariably park as close to the facility as possible, so as to make sure they could get to their car at night as quickly as possible. Men don't worry about that.

Add to this the fact that I've always worked in small population areas, where violent crime is very low. Lake Havasu's violent crime rate is quite low, even though it's a resort/party town.

For myself, I never worry about violent crime. I can wander around at night carefree. But then again, if I were in a big city, like Phoenix or Vegas, I'd worry a bit; and I can equally imagine that women would feel even more threatened in a big city.

And what about domestic abuse? I would bet that a very significant amount of women who suffer from violence in the home don't report it, because of fear of an even worse beating, and further entrapment. Violent men don't give a damn about restraining orders.

 

[ruby sparks]

I note that the OP is specifically about crime, which is fair enough. But since (I think) this thread is in some ways a spin-off from the '9pm male curfew' thread, I think it's worth saying (again) that it's not, it seems, just violent crime and perhaps not even just crime that women seem to fear or are bothered/concerned about or more to the point feel restricts them.

The numbers and percentages of women who report what they consider to be routine or low-level sexual harassment for example is imo shockingly high. As is the number of men (in various studies) admitting to it. It may be a minority of men to blame, but the problem for women is that if it's a stranger, they don't know if he's in the minority or the majority (and probably often they don't know even if it isn't a stranger). Hence precautions, especially in certain situations. No, I don't think women's responses are generally irrational, at all. In any risk assessment I've ever done (and I routinely do them for construction projects) precautions and concern are warranted even if the actual chances of an adverse outcome are low, when the potential (even if unlikely) severity is high. A bit like car seat belts in a way. Or hard hats on building sites.

Anecdote: daughter's female friend got flashed at and followed down the street by a man yesterday. In daylight, as it happens, on her way to work. All turned out fairly ok. She ran until she lost him. I mention this because my daughter prefaced telling me about it by saying, 'do you remember what you were saying yesterday about that online thread you were in? Well, it so happened...' So I'm thinking that ordinarily, she might not have reported the incident to me. I probably would never have heard about it and possibly even she might have underplayed it to herself as 'just the way it is'. On the whole, I'm very much in favour of encouraging women to speak up and articulate their issues.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Women tend to score higher on neuroticism on the big five test. So it's normal for women to be more irrationally and rationally afraid than men. Of everything. All humans fucking suck at doing accurate risk aseessement. So it's not like men are better at this. But they are less afraid. Which is why it's mostly men who do extreme sports

Men are more likely to be criminals. Since the victims of most violent crime, are other criminals, this would mean that women have less to worry about than men. So it's irrational.

It isn't nearly that simple.

If men are far more engaged in crime (and they are) and thus "victims" of other criminals as a result, then it is highly probable that fewer female victims are victims due to being criminals themselves. Thus, when women are victimized, it is usually when they are doing nothing wrong and can do little to avoid it. Plus, once the attack begins, women can do less to protect themselves, while many men at least think they will be able to.

We only call people who have done nothing wrong, victims. People who have done something wrong and get into trouble as a result... we don't call them victims. There's many degrees and levels to a criminal lifestyle. A lot of people hurt are just people buying or selling drugs. Because of the illegality of drugs, they might come into contact with real gangsters, hence the crime. I know a drug dealer who was stabbed by a maffia hitman based on nothing but a misunderstanding. He literally had done nothing wrong. His only crime was that he liked partying on coke.

Fear is triggered more when the danger is uncertain, harder to control/avoid, and you think you will be helpless to stop it.

Are you sure? I think we're a lot more afraid when danger is certain. Otherwise it's more like general anxiety.

This would make it rational for women to be more fearful of being victimized.

OTOH, women are more than twice as likely to be victimized by people they are intimate with, family and friends, than by strangers. And this is far more true for woman than for men. This makes it more rational for women to fear being home with their husband, brother, father, or other male acquaintances than walking down the street at night. So, this does relate to that "curfew" thread in the sense that if males were forced to be at home by 9pm, that would mean even more rapes and assaults on women, because they would be spending more time alone with the men in their lives who commit most of these crimes.

But on a third hand (imagine some alien arguing), most women think they have vetted the men in their lives, and in fact most women have because most men don't rape and beat the women in their lives. So, for most women, the only plausible source of threat is from strangers.

Yeah, but women are mostly afraid around strangers or at night, when they are relatively safe. They generally feel safe at home, which is the most dangerous place for a woman. So I don't think your assertion matches research data at all.

There's also the age thing. Everybody become more anxious and fearful with age. It's normal. Old people are the most afraid, and also the least likely to be targets of violence and crime. Older women are much more afraid that young women. Most targets of domestic violence are young women.

I also highly doubt it's a question of maturity, and learning more about the world. This effect is cross cultural. It doesn't matter how safe or dangerous life you've lived. Anxiety will go up with age.

Besides all this, it isn't clear women are more afraid. They just react to that fear differently. Men carry guns and are on the ready for a confrontation (and thus more easily to triggered to start one). And men may feel just as threatened but feel more anger than fear about it.

Meh... only in America. In the civilised part of the world, men don't carry guns. But on the likelihood of getting triggered this can easily be linked to testosterone. The more testosterone, the more aggression. So men are both less afraid, and more likely to start, and get into fights. It may be linked.

In sum, its hard to say whether women are or rationally should feel more threatened than men when walking down the street at night or hanging out in a bar.
But in general, there is tons of irrational fear by most people, and when there are political and ideological issues tied to it, then the odds of irrationality go through the roof. Unless one is in a particularly high crime neighborhood where everyone has reason to be constantly afraid, being afraid while walking down the street at night is likely irrational and you should spend your effort worrying about more probable threats like heart disease or the fact that your constant worrying is killing you.

Hmm... nearly all our fears are irrational. There's only a tiny subset of fears that are rational. That's true for both men and women. That's as true for the things we shouldn't be afraid of, which we are, and the stuff we should be afraid of, which we aren't.

In Sweden right now the biggest fear seems to be from the patriarchy. Since it's an abstract concept, that's basically like being afraid of unicorns. Some people are afraid of immigrants committing crime. Also a highly mythical creature. So they've formed Soldiers of Odin, and neighbourhood watch of sorts. Where ever Soldiers of Odin are the only perpetrators of any crime, so far, has been the Soldiers of Odin. They harass brown people in a way that would make Hitler proud. All due to fears run amok.