The NFL Fumbles the Ball

[Celldweller]

Lets use the criminal justice system against anyone who commits unlawful violence against anyone else, regardless of who the victim is. It doesn't look like the facts in this case are in dispute, so I do think that 2 games is too light a punishment.

Do you think a four game suspension ffor marijuana use, even in the off season, is too harsh, too light, or just right?

IMO, just right. Seeing as how they still retain their employment, what happens after a 2nd offense? A 4 game suspension is 4 games without pay. I believe there's 16 games in a season (players aren't paid during the off season) so that's roughly 1/4 of their yearly income taken away. Given that the average NFL player's career is roughly 3 years, that's a significant loss long-term.

 

[Terrell]

Lets use the criminal justice system against anyone who commits unlawful violence against anyone else, regardless of who the victim is. It doesn't look like the facts in this case are in dispute, so I do think that 2 games is too light a punishment.

Do you think a four game suspension ffor marijuana use, even in the off season, is too harsh, too light, or just right?

I don't think there should be a suspension for marijuana at all. It's not a performance enhancing drug, as far as I know, so I don't see it as cheating. I also don't think that marijuana should be illegal, w/r/t adult use. Maybe you didn't notice when you read my post, I think 2 games is too light, given that the facts don't appear to be in dispute.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Do you think a four game suspension ffor marijuana use, even in the off season, is too harsh, too light, or just right?

I don't think there should be a suspension for marijuana at all. It's not a performance enhancing drug, as far as I know, so I don't see it as cheating. I also don't think that marijuana should be illegal, w/r/t adult use. Maybe you didn't notice when you read my post, I think 2 games is too light, given that the facts don't appear to be in dispute.

sorry, misread your post

But I do want to make sure we keep on topic so it's good to look at the reefer madness of the NFL as well.

 

[RavenSky]

TMZ published the second video, from inside the elevator, showing Ray Rice punching his then fiancé so hard she is immediately knocked out. It also shows how callously he dragged her out of the elevator.

Now that the entire nation got to see for ourselves what happened (rather than just reading a description) the Ravens have fired Ray Rice, and the NFL has suspended him indefinitely.

 

[dismal]

Apparently before they saw the video they had assumed he had knocked her out in some more pleasant way.

 

[RavenSky]

Apparently before they saw the video they had assumed he had knocked her out in some more pleasant way.

More likely they saw it but counted on the general public's lack of knowledge of what domestic abuse actually looks like.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Apparently before they saw the video they had assumed he had knocked her out in some more pleasant way.

More likely they saw it but counted on the general public's lack of knowledge of what domestic abuse actually looks like.

Which is why all the people who are praising the NFL today for their decisiveness in handling it are wrong. They knew exactly what happened but the latest release of the video makes it a public relations nightmare that they can't sweep under the rug anymore.

 

[barbos]

Well she "punched" him first (outside of elevator)
Then he knocked her out.
Then she married him.....

I wonder what started it all.

 

[maxparrish]

More likely they saw it but counted on the general public's lack of knowledge of what domestic abuse actually looks like.

Which is why all the people who are praising the NFL today for their decisiveness in handling it are wrong. They knew exactly what happened but the latest release of the video makes it a public relations nightmare that they can't sweep under the rug anymore.

I am not sure that what Ray Rice did has any bearing on his job; in fact, he may have a good case for unlawful termination. Employment law (and union contracts) have long recognized that conviction of certain crimes do raise legitimate employment issues (e.g. if a bank hires a teller and he/she is found out to have been convicted of embezzling at another job, it is lawful to terminate the teller). But Rice's momentary domestic abuse is irrelevant to his observable and verifiable job conduct as a running back. Much of this will hinge on Maryland employment law, union agreements, and the terms in his contract.

In any event, I don't think it is the business of the NFL to act as a punitive agency for off-job actions that have nothing to do with a player's job. His 'assault' will be dealt with either through a plea bargain with prosecutors or through a trial by jury. If he is away from the league to spend a little time in jail, then when he returns there is no reason he should not return to football. In the meantime, he should play.

Moreover, Rice is not completely at fault. As the video shows, she was the first to put her hands on him by striking (or attempting to strike) him on the way to the elevator. Then in the elevator, it looks as if their might be hand fighting between them near the elevator floor buttons, and then he seemingly slaps her but he backs off. She violently pursues him across the elevator and he strikes her in self-defense, inadvertently her head hit the hand rail and she was out cold.

Unfortunately we can't hear the argument, but I suspect that like many women she has an usually sharp and scathing tongue and it provoked him. He may not be the most articulate of fellows and, unable to strike back through words, he reacted. And males of every race understand this "problem" of hysterics with the fairer sex, and on occasion very measured correctives may be appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0d1zTAFKA&list=PL9DDF533BAD06A2A0

And Connery and his wife have been happily married since 1975.

 

[bigfield]

I am not sure that what Ray Rice did has any bearing on his job; in fact, he may have a good case for unlawful termination. Employment law (and union contracts) have long recognized that conviction of certain crimes do raise legitimate employment issues (e.g. if a bank hires a teller and he/she is found out to have been convicted of embezzling at another job, it is lawful to terminate the teller). But Rice's momentary domestic abuse is irrelevant to his observable and verifiable job conduct as a running back. Much of this will hinge on Maryland employment law, union agreements, and the terms in his contract..

I'm guessing there is a "scumbag" clause in his contract.

 

[barbos]

Unfortunately we can't hear the argument, but I suspect that like many women she has an usually sharp and scathing tongue and it provoked him. He may not be the most articulate of fellows and, unable to strike back through words, he reacted. And males of every race understand this "problem" of hysterics with the fairer sex, and on occasion very measured correctives may be appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0d1...DF533BAD06A2A0

And Connery and his wife have been happily married since 1975.

I reluctantly not disagreeing

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why should "domestic abuse" be lifted above all the other crimes NFL players engage in? Why is violence against women considered a bigger problem than violence against men (even though men are much more likely to be victims of violent crime)? Double standards again.

The OP points out there is a double standard - the NFL punishment for smoking a joint is harsher than it is for engaging in domestic violence. As for your off point favorite hobby horse about gender equality,- the NFL endorses and encourages violence against men: it's an integral part of the game.

lmao Derec makes a good point, but one completely irrelevant to the topic of the thread. laughing dog also makes a good and funny point. This is a game that celebrates violence.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I don't really understand why players are being suspended for anything they did off the field that doesn't directly affect their ability to play the game. Performance enhancing drugs would equate to cheating, but as far as I know pot doesn't make you play better. As somebody above said, use the criminal justice system to take care of criminal matters. Why should the sports league have anything to do with it?

 

[Axulus]

The OP points out there is a double standard - the NFL punishment for smoking a joint is harsher than it is for engaging in domestic violence. As for your off point favorite hobby horse about gender equality,- the NFL endorses and encourages violence against men: it's an integral part of the game.

lmao Derec makes a good point, but one completely irrelevant to the topic of the thread. laughing dog also makes a good and funny point. This is a game that celebrates violence.

Consensual violence - not the non-consensual kind that Derec is discussing.

What Derec doesn't realize is that it isn't really a double standard in the way he thinks. An NFL player who engages in violence against a woman is less appealing as a player than one who engages in non-consensual violence against another man, hence the NFL will come down especially harsh on the former.

 

[Axulus]

I don't really understand why players are being suspended for anything they did off the field that doesn't directly affect their ability to play the game. Performance enhancing drugs would equate to cheating, but as far as I know pot doesn't make you play better. As somebody above said, use the criminal justice system to take care of criminal matters. Why should the sports league have anything to do with it?

Because the players are a key part of the brand of the NFL - certain actions that the players engage in off the field can damage your brand and lead to a loss in the number of fans. It's not just performance on the field but also how much the fans enjoy the players and their personalities.

Mel Gibson's DUI and drunken tirade against the Jews didn't directly impact his acting and directing ability, but you can be certain it decreased the number of viewers going to see his movies.

Similarly, a team or league that has unappealing players playing on it will decrease the number of people viewing their games.

 

[repoman]

She done damaged her meal ticket.

Think twice ladies.

Not sarcastic, the loss of money will sting her more than the blow she took. Her lawyer has a better chance of overturning this than his.

Imagine if she got divorced, who would date her (him as well of course) a woman who will rev up her boyfriend like that. No one needs that drama. Maybe she can change, but people are risk averse for dating women like that for a reason.

 

[Jayjay]

She done damaged her meal ticket.

Think twice ladies.

Not sarcastic, the loss of money will sting her more than the blow she took. Her lawyer has a better chance of overturning this than his.

I think she knows it, she's been apologizing and taking the blame this whole time precisely for that reason. But neither she nor her lawyer has any power over the videos and the bad PR that followed.

 

[RavenSky]

Let me see if I am understanding what I am reading here... Please tell me that I am misunderstanding...

His fiancé deserved to be punched in the face so hard she was knocked out cold because

1. Her voice is "usually sharp and scathing... and it provoked him"
2. She allegedly hit him first... the original claim was that she hit him inside the elevator but now that we have video evidence that she didn't the claim has shifted to before they entered the elevator
3. She's a gold-digger

Have I missed any of the reasons listed in the last couple of days as to why she deserved to be punched in the face so hard she was knocked out cold?

Or have I missed (& please tell me this is the case) the irony/sarcasm tags in each of those posts.

The really scary part is that it wasn't Derec who said any of the above.

 

[barbos]

Let me see if I am understanding what I am reading here... Please tell me that I am misunderstanding...

His fiancé deserved to be punched in the face so hard she was knocked out cold because

1. Her voice is "usually sharp and scathing... and it provoked him"
2. She allegedly hit him first... the original claim was that she hit him inside the elevator but now that we have video evidence that she didn't the claim has shifted to before they entered the elevator
3. She's a gold-digger

Have I missed any of the reasons listed in the last couple of days as to why she deserved to be punched in the face so hard she was knocked out cold?

Or have I missed (& please tell me this is the case) the irony/sarcasm tags in each of those posts.

The really scary part is that it wasn't Derec who said any of the above.

Couple of technical comments.
She did hit him first outside of elevator and just before she was knocked out she clearly attacked him.
As for "punched in the face so hard she was knocked out cold" you don't need to hit hard to knock out untrained person, very mild but "lucky" punch is all you need. And frankly I can't say he actually had intent to hit her.
What really looks bad on him is how unceremonious he behaved afterwards.
Did she deserve it? Of course she did not, but the way it looks she sure tried to provoke what happened.

 

[Axulus]

Let me see if I am understanding what I am reading here... Please tell me that I am misunderstanding...

His fiancé deserved to be punched in the face so hard she was knocked out cold because

1. Her voice is "usually sharp and scathing... and it provoked him"
2. She allegedly hit him first... the original claim was that she hit him inside the elevator but now that we have video evidence that she didn't the claim has shifted to before they entered the elevator
3. She's a gold-digger

Have I missed any of the reasons listed in the last couple of days as to why she deserved to be punched in the face so hard she was knocked out cold?

Or have I missed (& please tell me this is the case) the irony/sarcasm tags in each of those posts.

The really scary part is that it wasn't Derec who said any of the above.

1. She was charged with a misdemeanor assault. Therefore, is she completely innocent in the situation?

2. She admits some portion of blame. Is it your belief that she is lying or that she is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

“First, I want to say thank you to all of those who have supported us throughout this situation. I do deeply regret the role that I played in the incident that night, but I can say that I am happy that we continue to work through it together, and we are continuing to strengthen our relationship and our marriage and do what we have to do for not only ourselves collectively, but individually, and working on being better parents for Rayven and continue to be good role models for the community like we were doing before this. I love Ray, and I know that he will continue to prove himself to not only you all, but [to] the community, and I know he will gain your respect back in due time. So thank you.”

I am willing to give someone a second chance after giving them an appropriate penalty for the first offense. I tend to be of the mindset to go somewhat lenient on the first offense (depending on the severity of the offense) and really crack down hard on the second offense, especially when the victim is herself willing to forgive and advocating for lenience. Such incidents, after the first offence, can really be a wake-up call for those individuals who committed the offense to seek help. While the OP was appropriate in pointing out how insane it was for the penalty for pot-smoking to be more severe than domestic violence, I'm not sure ending one's career is necessarily appropriate for this one incident. A second incident, sure. Several game suspension, sure. A few months in jail, sure. But how much more is appropriate after the first offense, given that the victim decided to marry him and is pleading for lenience, understanding and forgiveness? Should the victim's wishes play no part in the matter?