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Hillary Clinton: You 'cannot be civil' with Republicans, Democrats need to be 'tougher'

I honestly don't know what advice I would give to Democrats at this point. That being said, I would caution them about taking advice from either one of the Clintons.

The DLC, blue dog Democrats are a part of the problem facing the country. They validated the country's move to the right. They validated the country's turn to selfish individualism that we see displayed daily here by our resident conservatives and libertarians.

We all are involved in a class war and the Clintons and the other DLC Democrats early on decided to surrender instead of fighting. This left the vast majority of Americans with little support in the war.

My tin drum that no one listens to ...


The class war was started by the already rich for purely economic reasons to direct as much of the nation's income to themselves as possible. But obviously, it couldn't be fought in these terms by acknowledging this goal, which economically disadvantages 98% of the country. So it is being fought by dividing the people who are being economically disadvantaged against one another over other mainly cultural issues, supported by the lifeblood of conservatism; lies, fear mongering, hypocrisy, slander and conspiracy theories, a few real but most are fabricated, along a divide that has always existed in the country, the one between conservatives and liberals.

The division between liberals and conservatives historically was about the means of change and the speed of change, but with a broad consensus about the goals of what we were trying to accomplish. In fact, those goals are the very goals of liberal democracy that are the nominal reasons that justified the founding of our nation, greater individual and economic freedom, greater social justice, the rule of law, and the equal protection of human rights for all of the people, not just for the privileged few.

The class war changed slowly these goals. It was sufficient to pass laws guaranteeing equality, we didn't have to achieve equality. Social justice was eliminated as a goal because it is impossible to achieve because the poor are the ones responsible for poverty. Gender equality suffered from both, it is sufficient to write the laws making it illegal to discriminate because of gender, we don't have to then enforce those laws and it is impossible to achieve because of the biological differences in the sexes.

Government is about two things primarily, security, from both internal and external threats, and the economy, defining it and enforcing the rules to punish and thereby to hopefully prevent bad behavior. The class war says that there is a magical form of capitalism that not only doesn't need these things from government, but that can also perform better without these things from the government.

Of course, what they really mean is that profits and the incomes of the already rich would be higher without the taxes and the economic externalities that government imposes on businesses and that we could restore the supply side dominance in the economy by pretending that money is a rare and limited resource and by expanding the endeavors that require capital by having private enterprise take over the functions of the government and of the parts of the economy now in the hands of professionals like medical care, education, and jurisprudence. These are at the best doubtful, at the worst destructive.


The only advantage of supporting the Democrats is that their policies would shift less of the nation's income to the already rich and transfer it slower than the Republicans policies would. This isn't a big win compared to the previous conservative/liberal dynamic of achieving more social justice, equality and the elimination of poverty and arguing how much government intervention is required to do these and how fast or slowly we should do them.

Yea, I'm a bluedog. Proud of it. There are millions and millions of Americans who are fiscally conservative and culturally liberal. Fundamentally I trust those in the middle more than people on the wings. Having said that, I feel that our current safety net is too low, college is becoming inaccessible for the working class, pro economic development, pro union, and pro universal health care.

But it's very disappointing that the only issue that you care about is this "class war". You don't care about the environment? You don't care about republicans gutting our federal parks? You don't care about clean air act? You think it's fine to rip up historic trade and peace accords? Don't care about UN involvement? Fine with lowering church and state restrictions? Don't care about women having control of their bodies? Think it's fine to favor 300 coal jobs vs thousands of solar jobs? Think it's no big deal to take health care coverage away from millions? Cool to not require coverage for existing health conditions? I could go on.

For me, I will fight against any politician who doesn't understand how serious climate change is. To me, there is no other bigger issue. And the differences between the two parties on this issue are extremely clear.
No offense, but everyone claims to be fiscally conservative.

What does this even mean anymore? Hell, the dems are more fiscally conservative than the GOP and this has been true for at least the last 50 years. That is, if you define fiscally conservative the old fashioned way (trying to balance the budget, passing budgets and bills that help the overall economy). It's meaningless twaddle now, when coming from politicians, and most people, because they make the claim, but then don't actually do it. We all know that just making the claim is enough in the GOP as long as you have (R) after your name, though.

I'm curious if anyone has ever claimed to be fiscally liberal.

?? Fiscally conservative is a relatively common accepted principal: low taxes, free market, mutually beneficial trade is good, lower government spending, and minimal government debt. Are you trying to say that there isn't anyone in favor of higher taxes, higher government spending, less trade, and more government debt? If they do, they are not fiscally conservative.
 
That's both Dems and Reps.

But one side claims to be conservative.

Yep. Conservatives overwhealingly claim that they are fiscally conservative. What a joke. The deficit goes up dramatically (much higher than under democrats) every time they are in office. And the more republicans that are in office the higher the deficit will be. Even in good times...
 
That's both Dems and Reps.

But one side claims to be conservative.

Yep. Conservatives overwhealingly claim that they are fiscally conservative. What a joke. The deficit goes up dramatically (much higher than under democrats) every time they are in office. And the more republicans that are in office the higher the deficit will be. Even in good times...

Agreed. It would be nice of either party - any party - implemented fiscal conservatism.
 
Yep. Conservatives overwhealingly claim that they are fiscally conservative. What a joke. The deficit goes up dramatically (much higher than under democrats) every time they are in office. And the more republicans that are in office the higher the deficit will be. Even in good times...

Agreed. It would be nice of either party - any party - implemented fiscal conservatism.

Both sides drink like drunken soldiers. But the deficit always go higher when the republicans are in charge because they blow up spending and dramatically decrease taxes. Anyone who thinks that you can increase spending while decreasing taxes should be examined for a head injury.
 
Republicans:Mexicans are rapists. We need toddler concentration camps. Nazis are very fine people
Democrats:Wow, that's a really horrible thing to say.
Republicans:Waaaaaaaaaaah! You're being uncivil and you hurt my feelings! I can't believe you're so impolite!
Democrats:I'm so sorry! I didn't mean to be so rude! Can you ever forgive me? I take back everything I said!

Hillary should not have backed down on the deplorables comment. If anything, she should apologize for using a such a mild term to describe them, then apologize for backing off because they started crying over the mildest criticism like the special princess snowflakes they are.
 
Yep. Conservatives overwhealingly claim that they are fiscally conservative. What a joke. The deficit goes up dramatically (much higher than under democrats) every time they are in office. And the more republicans that are in office the higher the deficit will be. Even in good times...

Agreed. It would be nice of either party - any party - implemented fiscal conservatism.

But again one party claims to be the conservative party.

The other party says we should tax to pay for things but they have no power to do it.

One party behaves conservatively and wants to pay for things and one party CLAIMS, and makes a big deal about the worthless claim, to be conservative.

It is recklessness and criminal to increase spending, especially the trillions of an unneeded attack, and lower taxes.

It is anything but conservative.

The Republicans: The party of hypocrites.

They jumped up and down rolled on the floor and wailed about how Clinton was immoral and a womanizer and unfit to lead.

Yet they ignore a lot more when a Republican is president.

Republicans: The party of hypocrites.

I could go on and on. They say one thing and do something else. They have no integrity or morality.
 
Yep. Conservatives overwhealingly claim that they are fiscally conservative. What a joke. The deficit goes up dramatically (much higher than under democrats) every time they are in office. And the more republicans that are in office the higher the deficit will be. Even in good times...

Agreed. It would be nice of either party - any party - implemented fiscal conservatism.

Clinton mildly raised taxes on the richest Americans, cut spending, and balanced the budget.

Meanwhile, Nutty Newt Gingrich, Trent Lott and other GOP leaders predicted Clinton's economics would result in recession, depression, inflation and massive unemployment. Barking idiots. The GOP has long accepted deficit creating tax cuts for the rich as fiscal policy. Supply side economics is not fiscally conservative, as demonstrated in Louisiana and Kansas in recent years. With Trumponomics, we are back to $1 trillion a year deficits.
 
The saying that politicians and babies nappies should be changed often and for the same reason will always hold true.
 
Bernie Sanders is boring? Must be why millions of young people are energized by his ideas.

Of course. Most of his ideas would greatly benefit younger voters. But young people don't vote. It's not that I disagree with his polices, but I just find him slightly more inspirational than HRC. But not by much. We need an extremely charismatic, tough, inspirational, rich character who can win free press coverage to beat Trump in 2020. I voted for HRC last time and would have voted for Bernie - but they are unable to beat Trump.

You seem to be describing Beto ;)
 
Bernie Sanders is boring? Must be why millions of young people are energized by his ideas.

Of course. Most of his ideas would greatly benefit younger voters. But young people don't vote. It's not that I disagree with his polices, but I just find him slightly more inspirational than HRC. But not by much. We need an extremely charismatic, tough, inspirational, rich character who can win free press coverage to beat Trump in 2020. I voted for HRC last time and would have voted for Bernie - but they are unable to beat Trump.

You seem to be describing Beto ;)

Absolutely. I think that Beto is exactly what we need. He's very charismatic. A great speaker. He also has a great sense of humor.
 
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