Franchise group files to block [Seattle's] $15 minimum-wage phase-in

[DBT]

Until you find that all you have are the robots.

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That's a dumb meme since those are being developed right now when the minimum wage is at $7.25/hr. It's got nothing to do with $15/hr.

But it does raise a good point about what do we do as a society when machines make most of the population superfluous. What do we do? Just tell those shunted aside to "skill up?" What is the free market solution to too few jobs?

$7.25/hr *HERE*. They'll show up first in the places with a higher minimum wage.

Paying minimum wage and mechanization/computerization are driven by the desire to minimize costs and maximize profits. It doesn't matter how low the pay rate, if cost of production can be reduced by mechanization, that's likely to be the option to be taken. That is the trend, regardless of anything else.

The question is: how, as a society, are we going to cope with a large percentage of unemployed workers who have no prospect of finding paid work?

 

[Togo]

Paying minimum wage and mechanization/computerization are driven by the desire to minimize costs and maximize profits. It doesn't matter how low the pay rate, if cost of production can be reduced by mechanization, that's likely to be the option to be taken. That is the trend, regardless of anything else.

The question is: how, as a society, are we going to cope with a large percentage of unemployed workers who have no prospect of finding paid work?

We may have to link the rates and corporate tax rate to the societal contribution of the company. A company that employs a lot of local people, trains them, provides infrastructure, and encourages satellite businesses would have a low tax rate. A company that uses a lot of power during the day, pollutes heavily, mainly just poaches a few people from other companies and relies on mechanisation for the rest, and actively competes with local businesses without providing any downward pressure on consumer costs, would have a high tax rate.

That way the contribution to the local area is balanced out by the tax code, and we encourage business that help grow the local area.

The bottom line is that unemployment, or under-employment, costs the taxpayer money. Businesses that alleviate that need to be rewarded and favoured, businesses that don't, don't.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Until you find that all you have are the robots.

Sorry, there will still be a niche for people like me who demand personal service. I visit my grocer on a daily basis and they will not be putting these in anytime soon since their business is built on personal service.

Every time I attempt to use one of these I get frustrated, stop what I am doing and walk out with my items sitting on the check out. It is not my job to know how their equipment works.

 

[ksen]

B-b-b-but don't you remember how much the prices dropped at the grocery stores that saved all that money replacing check out clerks with machines!?

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Yeah, I don't either.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The question is: how, as a society, are we going to cope with a large percentage of unemployed workers who have no prospect of finding paid work?

Exactly. We can't give them 40 acres and a mule anymore.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Until you find that all you have are the robots.

Sorry, there will still be a niche for people like me who demand personal service. I visit my grocer on a daily basis and they will not be putting these in anytime soon since their business is built on personal service.

Every time I attempt to use one of these I get frustrated, stop what I am doing and walk out with my items sitting on the check out. It is not my job to know how their equipment works.

Eventually you'll find the price of the human-service places to be well above the price of the robot-service places.

You can manage to post here, you certainly should be able to handle a checkout robot.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Sorry, there will still be a niche for people like me who demand personal service. I visit my grocer on a daily basis and they will not be putting these in anytime soon since their business is built on personal service.

Every time I attempt to use one of these I get frustrated, stop what I am doing and walk out with my items sitting on the check out. It is not my job to know how their equipment works.

Eventually you'll find the price of the human-service places to be well above the price of the robot-service places.

You can manage to post here, you certainly should be able to handle a checkout robot.

You underestimate the value of personal service and that shopping is a social event. You also overestimate the labor cost. As pointed out above there is no costs savings for consumers by having robot checkouts. My willingness to use a checkout robot is close to zero. I'm sure I could play around for an hour or two and figure it out, but I have better uses of my time. I really I just want my good checked out and bagged. If a company cannot do that, fuck 'em.

 

[Jayjay]

Eventually you'll find the price of the human-service places to be well above the price of the robot-service places.

You can manage to post here, you certainly should be able to handle a checkout robot.

You underestimate the value of personal service and that shopping is a social event. You also overestimate the labor cost. As pointed out above there is no costs savings for consumers by having robot checkouts. My willingness to use a checkout robot is close to zero. I'm sure I could play around for an hour or two and figure it out, but I have better uses of my time. I really I just want my good checked out and bagged. If a company cannot do that, fuck 'em.

You are spending an hour or two just standing in line anyway after a few shopping trips. Personally, I dont see the automated checkout as a cost saver, I see it as a time saver. Same with the automated ordering in fast food places. Actually, I prefer the robot because then I don't have to feel embarrased about browsing the menu and keeping the machine waiting. Also, my using the robots frees the human servers to serve those who actually want the human interaction so it's a win for everyone.

Until they fire the last human that is.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

You underestimate the value of personal service and that shopping is a social event. You also overestimate the labor cost. As pointed out above there is no costs savings for consumers by having robot checkouts. My willingness to use a checkout robot is close to zero. I'm sure I could play around for an hour or two and figure it out, but I have better uses of my time. I really I just want my good checked out and bagged. If a company cannot do that, fuck 'em.

You are spending an hour or two just standing in line anyway after a few shopping trips.

I visit the grocery store almost every day. My longest wait is five minutes.

Personally, I dont see the automated checkout as a cost saver, I see it as a time saver.

They are touted as a cost saver, but that savings in not consumer savings.

Same with the automated ordering in fast food places. Actually, I prefer the robot because then I don't have to feel embarrased about browsing the menu and keeping the machine waiting. Also, my using the robots frees the human servers to serve those who actually want the human interaction so it's a win for everyone.

I've never seen a fast food robot.

 

[ZiprHead]

Until they fire the last human that is.

We'll need a completely new economic system long before we get to that point.

I'm sure Lumpen-Trader's head will explode then.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Eventually you'll find the price of the human-service places to be well above the price of the robot-service places.

You can manage to post here, you certainly should be able to handle a checkout robot.

You underestimate the value of personal service and that shopping is a social event. You also overestimate the labor cost. As pointed out above there is no costs savings for consumers by having robot checkouts. My willingness to use a checkout robot is close to zero. I'm sure I could play around for an hour or two and figure it out, but I have better uses of my time. I really I just want my good checked out and bagged. If a company cannot do that, fuck 'em.

There are usually a lot more checkout robots than checkers--thus it goes faster. Even if it took an hour to learn (and it certainly doesn't!) it would be worth it. Our local Albertson's removed it's robots for some reason--and checkout is slower now.

 

[ksen]

And did Albertson's prices go through the roof when they brought humans back into the system?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

You underestimate the value of personal service and that shopping is a social event. You also overestimate the labor cost. As pointed out above there is no costs savings for consumers by having robot checkouts. My willingness to use a checkout robot is close to zero. I'm sure I could play around for an hour or two and figure it out, but I have better uses of my time. I really I just want my good checked out and bagged. If a company cannot do that, fuck 'em.

There are usually a lot more checkout robots than checkers--thus it goes faster. Even if it took an hour to learn (and it certainly doesn't!) it would be worth it. Our local Albertson's removed it's robots for some reason--and checkout is slower now.

Once again: I don't shop at stores with checkout robots. I go to the store nearly daily and have never waited more than five minutes in line. My groceries are rung up by people and bagged by people. -- Union labor by the way.--My grocery bill is the same as it I went to an Albrectsen's or the produce hell known as Roundy's.

 

[Jayjay]

Personally, I dont see the automated checkout as a cost saver, I see it as a time saver.

They are touted as a cost saver, but that savings in not consumer savings.

Same with the automated ordering in fast food places. Actually, I prefer the robot because then I don't have to feel embarrased about browsing the menu and keeping the machine waiting. Also, my using the robots frees the human servers to serve those who actually want the human interaction so it's a win for everyone.

I've never seen a fast food robot.

But they do have automated ordering machines. Jack in the Box for example has had them for years now.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

They are touted as a cost saver, but that savings in not consumer savings.

Same with the automated ordering in fast food places. Actually, I prefer the robot because then I don't have to feel embarrased about browsing the menu and keeping the machine waiting. Also, my using the robots frees the human servers to serve those who actually want the human interaction so it's a win for everyone.

I've never seen a fast food robot.

But they do have automated ordering machines. Jack in the Box for example has had them for years now.

What's Jack in the Box?

Nevermind, I figured it out: THE CLOSEST LOCATION IS 412.29 MILES AWAY IN KANSAS CITY, KS.

 

[ksen]

They are touted as a cost saver, but that savings in not consumer savings.

Same with the automated ordering in fast food places. Actually, I prefer the robot because then I don't have to feel embarrased about browsing the menu and keeping the machine waiting. Also, my using the robots frees the human servers to serve those who actually want the human interaction so it's a win for everyone.

I've never seen a fast food robot.

But they do have automated ordering machines. Jack in the Box for example has had them for years now.

What's Jack in the Box?

Nevermind, I figured it out: THE CLOSEST LOCATION IS 412.29 MILES AWAY IN KANSAS CITY, KS.

^^reported for personally identifying information!!!!

eta: whoops, wrong forum

 

[Emily Lake]

To each his own, I suppose. I prefer the self check-out at the grocery store, because I shop frequently for small amounts, and I'm quite picky about how they're bagged. I prefer bagging it myself, so it's done the "right" way. The self-check lines are usually nonexistent, whereas the lines for the regular check-outs are usually longer, and I'm behind people with full carts, and subjected to the chaotic bagging techniques of the people who are not nearly as neurotic as I.

I've used the automated ordering machines... and I was indifferent. I frequently special-order items, and it was convenient to be able to just do it myself. Most fast-food restaurants, however, have screens showing what has been ordered, so it's no problem to verify that it's entered correctly. And there is no savings in terms of time or anxiety.

 

[Axulus]

Until you find that all you have are the robots.

Sorry, there will still be a niche for people like me who demand personal service. I visit my grocer on a daily basis and they will not be putting these in anytime soon since their business is built on personal service.

Every time I attempt to use one of these I get frustrated, stop what I am doing and walk out with my items sitting on the check out. It is not my job to know how their equipment works.

They still have one person manning all the self-checkout stations at every store I've gone to that has them to provide assistance, check IDs for alcohol, etc.

It's most ideal when I'm just buying a few items, and I still get the social interaction with the person manning all the stations (unless they are occupied at one of the stations with a different customer).

 

[DBT]

Yes, where there was ten check out operators in the past, there is now one assistant. Airport self check in, baggage handling, online ticket sales, etc, etc...and this is just the beginning.

 

[ksen]

And none of those automated systems has resulted in lower prices. Odd.