Suburban security guard stops shooter, gets killed by police

[RavenSky]

Yes he was breaking laws... specifically, a law that liberals are very concerned with. The law he broke was that he did NOT have a licesnse to carry a gun on him. He was ILLEGALLY CARRYING A GUN.

Another unsubstantiated & apparently false claim by Gun Nut being used to justify the killing of a black man.

Moreover, there doesn't appear to be anything in Illinois law that requires a "concealed carry" permit for an armed security guard on the job:

Armed Security Guard Requirements in Illinois

To become an armed security guard in Illinois, applicants must:

be 21 years or older
complete the Illinois state-required unarmed PERC security guard training
provide employer with a set of passport-style photos
provide employer a set of fingerprints on a standard FBI fingerprint card
not have been convicted of a felony, a sexual offense, or any crime that would question the honesty and integrity of the person
complete state-required training course

The armed security guard license must be renewed every three years. The license shall be renewed upon proof that the employee has been re-qualified on the firing range within one year preceding the renewal date. The employee must also provide proof that they are still employed by the agency where the card was issued. Topics covered in the training course include the use of firearms, liability, use of force, search procedures, and more. The armed security guard fees total $55.

Licensing Body: Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation

Law: SECTION 1240.200

https://securityresources.net/security-guard-requirements-illinois/

It's almost impossible for the cop to have known that during the incident... it is something they would have found out fairly quickly, though.

And yet, the police chief is PRAISING the killed security guard... not demonizing him with false accusations like you are.

My only reason for having brought that up before... is that it indicates he likely didn;t know what the fuck he was doing and put himself in danger by not acting like someone who is authorized to carry...

More false claims by Gun Nut to demonize the killed security guard.

I will again point to Illinois law regarding armed security guards:

>>> complete the Illinois state-required unarmed PERC security guard training
>>> complete state-required training course

>>> The license shall be renewed upon proof that the employee has been re-qualified on the firing range within one year preceding the renewal date.

>>> Topics covered in the training course include the use of firearms, liability, use of force, search procedures, and more.

- - - Updated - - -

No, he had a licence for the gun and his ability to successfully disarm and restrain an armed attacker while stopping anyone he was assigned to protect from getting killed seems like fairly solid evidence that he had training to do his job.

The police officer who killed him would appear to be the one who lacked proper training.

You are simply flat-out wrong. reread the article. He had the required paperwork to own a gun. He did NOT have the required paperwork to carry the gun in public or for a job. To get that permit (concealed carry), you must take and pass a class that teaches you how to handle yourself in exactly these types of situations.

YOU are the one who is "flat out wrong"

 

[Gun Nut]

Am I the only one who thinks that it's odd that a guy who calls himself Gun Nut is so cool with the cops shooting someone because they have a gun?

I think it's extra super odd that someone who calls himself that is trying so hard to justify the shooting of a man who was doing what gun nuts in general think is the right thing to do.

In addition to doing his job (he was an armed security guard, after all), he did what the NRA narrative said you're supposed to do in this situation. He - an armed citizen - saw a potential mass shooting beginning, drew his sidearm, and confronted the bad guy. He won his conflict, subduing the villain and undoubtedly averting a situation where many innocent people could have died. If the cop had correctly assessed the situation, this guy would not only be alive, and not only be a hero, but be an example for the gun nut crowd of "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Instead, he's dead. The bad guy is alive.

I'm not trying to justify anything. I am giving you the facts that you are ignoring... the guard didn't have the required training because he didn't have the required certification. He didn't subdue correctly, because a "gun in the back of a pron suspect" is not the correct position to be in.
IF the cop (IF IF IF IF) told him to drop the gun, and instead he replied, "I'm the good guy" and FAILED to drop it.. that is yet another wrong thing he did.

But you guys.. all you liberals... always just look at the race and say "cause black". THAT'S fucking racist...

You know what is NOT racist. Shooting a guy that is holding a gun in someone's back after telling him to drop it.

I completely agree that "more good guys with guns" is the NRA mantra, and it is wrong.

More gun safety training (that the guard didn't bother to get), harsher penalties for not following basic gun safety (like the guard failed to do by illegally carrying), and meaningful and effective ways of keeping guns out of the hands of unstable people.

 

[Ford]

Am I the only one who thinks that it's odd that a guy who calls himself Gun Nut is so cool with the cops shooting someone because they have a gun?

I think it's extra super odd that someone who calls himself that is trying so hard to justify the shooting of a man who was doing what gun nuts in general think is the right thing to do.

In addition to doing his job (he was an armed security guard, after all), he did what the NRA narrative said you're supposed to do in this situation. He - an armed citizen - saw a potential mass shooting beginning, drew his sidearm, and confronted the bad guy. He won his conflict, subduing the villain and undoubtedly averting a situation where many innocent people could have died. If the cop had correctly assessed the situation, this guy would not only be alive, and not only be a hero, but be an example for the gun nut crowd of "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Instead, he's dead. The bad guy is alive.

I'm not trying to justify anything. I am giving you the facts that you are ignoring...

Your "facts" are made up. You have yet to provide sources for some, and others have been flat-out proven wrong. And yes, you are absolutely trying to justify the shooting.

 

[RavenSky]

I'm not trying to justify anything. I am giving you the facts that you are ignoring...

the guard didn't have the required training because he didn't have the required certification.

^^^ NOT a "fact" - just Gun Nut's unsubstantiated & uninformed assumption

He didn't subdue correctly, because a "gun in the back of a pron suspect" is not the correct position to be in.

^^^ NOT a "fact" - just Gun Nut's "proof by assertion"

IF the cop (IF IF IF IF) told him to drop the gun, and instead he replied, "I'm the good guy" and FAILED to drop it.. that is yet another wrong thing he did.

^^^ NOT a "fact" - just Gun Nut's unsubstantiated & uninformed assumption. Yes yes yes he said "IF IF IF IF"... but above he claimed he was giving us "the facts that [we] are ignoring". Nope. No he's not.

Shooting a guy that is holding a gun in someone's back after telling him to drop it.

^^^ the bolded is NOT a "fact" - it is the claim of the police officer who just killed an innocent man... a claim that is in dispute by the witnesses.

I completely agree that "more good guys with guns" is the NRA mantra, and it is wrong.

We agree on something, at least

More gun safety training (that the guard didn't bother to get),

^^^ The bolded is NOT a "fact", just more "proof by repeated assertion" of an unsubstantiated & uninformed assumption from Gun Nut

harsher penalties for not following basic gun safety (like the guard failed to do by illegally carrying)

^^^ The bolded is NOT a "fact", just more "proof by repeated assertion" of an unsubstantiated & uninformed assumption from Gun Nut

and meaningful and effective ways of keeping guns out of the hands of unstable people.

Wow. Not a single "fact" in his entire post.

 

[Jarhyn]

^^^ NOT a "fact" - just Gun Nut's unsubstantiated & uninformed assumption

He didn't subdue correctly, because a "gun in the back of a pron suspect" is not the correct position to be in.

^^^ NOT a "fact" - just Gun Nut's "proof by assertion"

IF the cop (IF IF IF IF) told him to drop the gun, and instead he replied, "I'm the good guy" and FAILED to drop it.. that is yet another wrong thing he did.

^^^ NOT a "fact" - just Gun Nut's unsubstantiated & uninformed assumption. Yes yes yes he said "IF IF IF IF"... but above he claimed he was giving us "the facts that [we] are ignoring". Nope. No he's not.

Shooting a guy that is holding a gun in someone's back after telling him to drop it.

^^^ the bolded is NOT a "fact" - it is the claim of the police officer who just killed an innocent man... a claim that is in dispute by the witnesses.

I completely agree that "more good guys with guns" is the NRA mantra, and it is wrong.

We agree on something, at least

More gun safety training (that the guard didn't bother to get),

^^^ The bolded is NOT a "fact", just more "proof by repeated assertion" of an unsubstantiated & uninformed assumption from Gun Nut

harsher penalties for not following basic gun safety (like the guard failed to do by illegally carrying)

^^^ The bolded is NOT a "fact", just more "proof by repeated assertion" of an unsubstantiated & uninformed assumption from Gun Nut

and meaningful and effective ways of keeping guns out of the hands of unstable people.

Wow. Not a single "fact" in his entire post.

I do have a fact: if the officer interacting with the security guard wasn't armed, the guard wouldn't have gotten shot.

How about another fact: a security guard stopped and subdued an active shooter without killing them, despite their mission to kill many and likely end the event with killing themselves, an insanely difficult task. A COP managed to shoot the wrong guy... so how is it that a fuckin security guard is better at dealing safely with an active shooter than a fucking cop?

 

[laughing dog]

A COP managed to shoot the wrong guy... so how is it that a fuckin security guard is better at dealing safely with an active shooter than a fucking cop?

Obviously, the security guard was not properly trained.

 

[RavenSky]

How about another fact: a security guard stopped and subdued an active shooter without killing them... A COP managed to shoot the wrong guy... so how is it that a fuckin security guard is better at dealing safely with an active shooter than a fucking cop?

^^^ An indisputable fact

 

[James Brown]

It is rather curious...

Being shot by a cop for carrying a gun is exactly the sort of tyrannical overreach that the NRA ensures us is why need a 2nd Amendment.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

.. and that is the common theme that I see. Not the color of people's skin... but the "shade" they act with.. that gets them shot.

This is going to sound racist, because it probably is... but "being black" is not a problem for black people... it's "acting black". I guess I may be a little "culturist".. which is to say, white people that act "gangsta" are just as likely to get themselves shot.

I've been saying this for years. Racial issues are almost always actually a proxy for some other factor--usually socioeconomic but sometimes cultural.

 

[Derec]

Some thoughts, based on this article.

- the family hired notorious hearse chaser Lee Merritt. They are out for money.
- there is disagreement whether he had any clothing identifying him as security guard.

While witnesses said the guard was wearing clothes that clearly identified him as "security," Illinois State Police, the agency now leading the investigation, said Roberson was wearing "plain black clothing with no markings readily identifying him as a Security Guard."

- he was told to drop the gun but refused.

Illinois State Police described the events differently.
"According to witness statements, the Midlothian Officer gave the armed subject multiple verbal commands to drop the gun and get on the ground before ultimately discharging his weapon and striking" the security guard, Illinois State Police said in a statement.

Also, I wonder if the original shooter will be charged with felony murder.

This looks like a tragic mistake. The police did not intentionally kill a security guard, nor is there any indication at all that race played a role, contrary to Underseer's hobby horsing.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes, the shooter should be charged with felony murder. A death occurred as a result of his committing a crime and that makes him liable for that death.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

.. and that is the common theme that I see. Not the color of people's skin... but the "shade" they act with.. that gets them shot.

This is going to sound racist, because it probably is... but "being black" is not a problem for black people... it's "acting black". I guess I may be a little "culturist".. which is to say, white people that act "gangsta" are just as likely to get themselves shot.

I've been saying this for years. Racial issues are almost always actually a proxy for some other factor--usually socioeconomic but sometimes cultural.

If the security guard is white, the officer doesn't shoot him. The Officer instinctually believed that the black man was a criminal. This doesn't have to be sourced in racism to be a bad thing. His instincts misled him and his actions killed not only an innocent man, but a man that had subdued a shooter (oddly enough, without killing him).

It is abhorrent that people seem to want to hand wave this problem away. The man is dead because the Officer failed in his assessing of the situation.

 

[laughing dog]

- the family hired notorious hearse chaser Lee Merritt. They are out for money.

If he was wrongly killed, what is the problem? This black victim was not a thug - he was doing his job. In fact, he fulfilled his duties better than the police because he did not kill the jackass who started this tragedy/potential crime.

- there is disagreement whether he had any clothing identifying him as security guard.

The witnesses identified him as a security guard.

- he was told to drop the gun but refused.

There is no indication whether he refused or if he was given enough time to drop anything.

More importantly, unless he was pointing that weapon at the police, they should not have shot him at all.

 

[Jarhyn]

If he was wrongly killed, what is the problem? This black victim was not a thug - he was doing his job. In fact, he fulfilled his duties better than the police because he did not kill the jackass who started this tragedy/potential crime.

The witnesses identified him as a security guard.

- he was told to drop the gun but refused.

There is no indication whether he refused or if he was given enough time to drop anything.

More importantly, unless he was pointing that weapon at the police, they should not have shot him at all.

Not to mention that if he did drop the weapon, the perp would have been potentially within grabbing range of it -- the same guy who showed up to shoot people. There is no situation where taking a gun off of a violent and ultimately unrestrained suspect is in any way wise

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If he was wrongly killed, what is the problem? This black victim was not a thug - he was doing his job. In fact, he fulfilled his duties better than the police because he did not kill the jackass who started this tragedy/potential crime.

The witnesses identified him as a security guard.

- he was told to drop the gun but refused.

There is no indication whether he refused or if he was given enough time to drop anything.

More importantly, unless he was pointing that weapon at the police, they should not have shot him at all.

This just goes to show how much race matters still. This security guard apprehends a violent criminal, and the Derec's out there will still bend over backwards to justify their shooting death. If the victim was white the NRA would be up in arms and Derec would be no where to be found.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Some thoughts, based on this article.

- the family hired notorious hearse chaser Lee Merritt. They are out for money.
- there is disagreement whether he had any clothing identifying him as security guard.

While witnesses said the guard was wearing clothes that clearly identified him as "security," Illinois State Police, the agency now leading the investigation, said Roberson was wearing "plain black clothing with no markings readily identifying him as a Security Guard."

- he was told to drop the gun but refused.

Illinois State Police described the events differently.
"According to witness statements, the Midlothian Officer gave the armed subject multiple verbal commands to drop the gun and get on the ground before ultimately discharging his weapon and striking" the security guard, Illinois State Police said in a statement.

Also, I wonder if the original shooter will be charged with felony murder.

This looks like a tragic mistake. The police did not intentionally kill a security guard, nor is there any indication at all that race played a role, contrary to Underseer's hobby horsing.

Looks like Gun Nut got it right--the guy didn't handle the situation properly.

Multiple orders to drop the gun and he didn't--utter stupidity.

 

[ZiprHead]

Some thoughts, based on this article.

- the family hired notorious hearse chaser Lee Merritt. They are out for money.
- there is disagreement whether he had any clothing identifying him as security guard.

- he was told to drop the gun but refused.


Also, I wonder if the original shooter will be charged with felony murder.

This looks like a tragic mistake. The police did not intentionally kill a security guard, nor is there any indication at all that race played a role, contrary to Underseer's hobby horsing.

Looks like Gun Nut got it right--the guy didn't handle the situation properly.

Multiple orders to drop the gun and he didn't--utter stupidity.

Let's hear what the witnesses that are NOT the police say.

 

[laughing dog]

Some thoughts, based on this article.

- the family hired notorious hearse chaser Lee Merritt. They are out for money.
- there is disagreement whether he had any clothing identifying him as security guard.

- he was told to drop the gun but refused.


Also, I wonder if the original shooter will be charged with felony murder.

This looks like a tragic mistake. The police did not intentionally kill a security guard, nor is there any indication at all that race played a role, contrary to Underseer's hobby horsing.

Looks like Gun Nut got it right--the guy didn't handle the situation properly.

Multiple orders to drop the gun and he didn't--utter stupidity.

Until you point to the law that justifies killing someone because they did not immediately drop a weapon upon police command, your response is a prime candidate to join the "utter stupidity" club.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Some thoughts, based on this article.

- the family hired notorious hearse chaser Lee Merritt. They are out for money.
- there is disagreement whether he had any clothing identifying him as security guard.

- he was told to drop the gun but refused.


Also, I wonder if the original shooter will be charged with felony murder.

This looks like a tragic mistake. The police did not intentionally kill a security guard, nor is there any indication at all that race played a role, contrary to Underseer's hobby horsing.

Looks like Gun Nut got it right--the guy didn't handle the situation properly.

Multiple orders to drop the gun and he didn't--utter stupidity.

Based on my experience this is the police lying, as police like to do when they fuck up and have to cover their fuckup. So I want to see evidence of same and hear from witnesses.

 

[Derec]

This just goes to show how much race matters still. This security guard apprehends a violent criminal, and the Derec's out there will still bend over backwards to justify their shooting death.

I did not justify the death. It is quite possible the police screwed up. Or that the guard screwed up. Or both. What I said is that there is no evidence race played any role.

If the victim was white the NRA would be up in arms and Derec would be no where to be found.

I don't know about NRA, but utter BS as far as me.