Duterte and "Your Stupid God"

[Jolly_Penguin]

Anybody here follow news and politics in the Philippines? I am surprised nobody has mentioned this yet on a mostly atheist "Talk Freethought" board.

This is hilarious, blunt, and awesome, and Duterte is getting a lot of flack for it from his mostly Catholic people....

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/...d/news-story/0a4ed3a7cb7a78cfc203148597de904a

“Adam ate (the fruit of knowledge), then malice was born. Who is this stupid God?” he said.

“That son of a b***h is stupid if that’s the case. You created something perfect and then you think of an event that would tempt and destroy the quality of your work.”

Duterte also questioned the rationale of original sin, noting, “That was your mother and father’s deed — you weren’t born yet, but now you have original sin. What kind of religion is that? I can’t accept it.”

Amid criticisms over Duterte’s statements, presidential spokesman Harry Roque urged the public to accept that the leader tends to use strong language when he expresses his beliefs.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Did Duterte then have one of his guards shoot someone in the face because he was pissed off about the topic?

Since the answer to that is probably "I don't know, but it's not an unreasonable assumption", this is why we don't really want this guy on our side.

 

[WAB]

Did Duterte then have one of his guards shoot someone in the face because he was pissed off about the topic?

Since the answer to that is probably "I don't know, but it's not an unreasonable assumption", this is why we don't really want this guy on our side.

Agreed. The man makes Stalin look like a girlscout.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Did Duterte then have one of his guards shoot someone in the face because he was pissed off about the topic?

Since the answer to that is probably "I don't know, but it's not an unreasonable assumption", this is why we don't really want this guy on our side.

I don't know, but its indeed not an unreasonable assumption. I do know however that his daughter, who is a mayor, punched a court sharrif in the face for bulldozing a bunch of shanties (200 houses) in Davao City when she asked the court not to make the order. They are brutal, and I have to oppose them out of principle, but I do find it a bit amusing. He gives zero fucks and even goes of swearing at people in the middle of press hearings, though its usually with a "man of the people" air to it. Duterte is like if Donald Trump was fused with Stalin, Bernie Sanders and Robin Hood.

 

[Elixir]

Did Duterte then have one of his guards shoot someone in the face because he was pissed off about the topic?

Since the answer to that is probably "I don't know, but it's not an unreasonable assumption", this is why we don't really want this guy on our side.

I don't know, but its indeed not an unreasonable assumption. I do know however that his daughter, who is a mayor, punched a court sharrif in the face for bulldozing a bunch of shanties (200 houses) in Davao City when she asked the court not to make the order. They are brutal, and I have to oppose them out of principle, but I do find it a bit amusing. He gives zero fucks and even goes of swearing at people in the middle of press hearings, though its usually with a "man of the people" air to it. Duterte is like if Donald Trump was fused with Stalin, Bernie Sanders and Robin Hood.

Well, i have to admit, he IS a robbin' hood.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Duterte, despite his brutality, has remained popular and has gotten results. I think its a fair question if a gentler and more evenhanded approach would work there. I have a hard time imagining Turdeau for example governing the Philippines.

I don't remember if I told you folks the bullet scam story (true story). For a while corrupt airport security in Manila were slipping bullets (yes, lime ammo) into people's luggage, finding them, and then extorting bribes or threatening a very serious charge. They messed up in who they targetted (an old lady; a missionary) and it became widely known as a scam. People were saran wrapping their check in luggage to avoid it. Finally Duterte just flat out said the equivalent of "If anyone plants a bullet on anyone, and I find out, I will have them dead". The scam stopped immediately. He pretty much ended organized crime and street gangs the same way. Heavy fisted zero tolerance. Definitely wouldn't work in the west, but an iron fisted leader may actually get more done in some places (shrug)

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Duterte, despite his brutality, has remained popular and has gotten results. I think its a fair question if a gentler and more evenhanded approach would work there. I have a hard time imagining Turdeau for example governing the Philippines.

I don't remember if I told you folks the bullet scam story (true story). For a while corrupt airport security in Manila were slipping bullets (yes, lime ammo) into people's luggage, finding them, and then extorting bribes or threatening a very serious charge. They messed up in who they targetted (an old lady; a missionary) and it became widely known as a scam. People were saran wrapping their check in luggage to avoid it. Finally Duterte just flat out said the equivalent of "If anyone plants a bullet on anyone, and I find out, I will have them dead". The scam stopped immediately. He pretty much ended organized crime and street gangs the same way. Heavy fisted zero tolerance. Definitely wouldn't work in the west, but an iron fisted leader may actually get more done in some places (shrug)

Has he gotten results? According to his wiki page:

Davao has the highest murder rate, the second highest rape rate, and the fourth highest number of index crimes in the country, according to official police raw data for the years 2010 to 2015. Nevertheless, Duterte claims that the city is one of the world's safest, a narrative that gained currency in the national media, creating a widespread public perception that has been a significant factor in establishing support for his nationwide drug policy.

I mean, Donald Trump is the single most effective President in the entire history of forever, if you use Donald Trump as the source of your information. If you use any other source, he's about the least effective.

Duterte saying that he's getting results and his media outlets parroting the claim that he's getting results aren't the same as his getting results.

Now, I know little to nothing about Duterte and don't know one way or the other if he's getting results or if he's making things worse. A quick google search on the topic, however, makes it seem that he's the source of the claim that he's getting results, and that's not based off of any actual analysis of results.

 

[J842P]

Did Duterte then have one of his guards shoot someone in the face because he was pissed off about the topic?

Since the answer to that is probably "I don't know, but it's not an unreasonable assumption", this is why we don't really want this guy on our side.

Agreed. The man makes Stalin look like a girlscout.

That is an absurd hyperbole. He is acting like an American in the days of the Wild West. Not something acceptable for modern standards, but definitely nowhere near the horrors of Stalinist Soviet Union.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Did Duterte then have one of his guards shoot someone in the face because he was pissed off about the topic?

Since the answer to that is probably "I don't know, but it's not an unreasonable assumption", this is why we don't really want this guy on our side.

Agreed. The man makes Stalin look like a girlscout.

That is an absurd hyperbole. He is acting like an American in the days of the Wild West. Not something acceptable for modern standards, but definitely nowhere near the horrors of Stalinist Soviet Union.

That's pretty much accurate. He's like a sherriff with no oversight. He will kill people to contain crime. He will also boast and flatter himself like Trump, but unlike Trump, he actually goes in with an iron fist and smashes bad things.

And Davao is in Mindanao, so no huge surprise murder rate is high. I am surprised that its higher than Malawi or Zamboanga City though, if that can be taken as true. Mindanao is where the islamic separatist/terrorist element is. It is the most dangerous part of the Philippines and the only part of it that international travel will advise you to stay out of (except for maybe some parts of Manila at night - like any big city).

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But if the murder rate is still high, what’s the upside of his having killed about 20,000 of his people?

It doesn’t seem to have reduced crime, so what’s the trade off he received from all those deaths, aside from his getting to brag about all the people he’s killed?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

But if the murder rate is still high, what’s the upside of his having killed about 20,000 of his people?

It doesn’t seem to have reduced crime, so what’s the trade off he received from all those deaths, aside from his getting to brag about all the people he’s killed?

Two quick points:

1. Davao is just one city in the Philippines (and a city from the most dangerous region)

2. Murder rate is only part of crime rate.

It is a mixed bag with some big ups and some big downs

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...rte-a-mixed-picture-of-drug-war-economic-boom

 

[Tom Sawyer]

“Mixed bag” doesn’t sound a justification for murdering 20,000 of your citizens.

 

[WAB]

Did Duterte then have one of his guards shoot someone in the face because he was pissed off about the topic?

Since the answer to that is probably "I don't know, but it's not an unreasonable assumption", this is why we don't really want this guy on our side.

Agreed. The man makes Stalin look like a girlscout.

That is an absurd hyperbole. He is acting like an American in the days of the Wild West. Not something acceptable for modern standards, but definitely nowhere near the horrors of Stalinist Soviet Union.

Indeed. I was purposely exaggerating. But the man is a bastard.

 

[ZiprHead]

The ass-kissing of a cruel, authoritarian dictator is disturbing.

How long before we find out that Duterte and his own people have taken over the PI drug trade?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The ass-kissing of a cruel, authoritarian dictator is disturbing.

How long before we find out that Duterte and his own people have taken over the PI drug trade?

Like … a couple of years ago? Is that not known?

 

[ZiprHead]

The ass-kissing of a cruel, authoritarian dictator is disturbing.

How long before we find out that Duterte and his own people have taken over the PI drug trade?

Like … a couple of years ago? Is that not known?

First I've heard about it.

 

[steve_bank]

Duterte, despite his brutality, has remained popular and has gotten results. I think its a fair question if a gentler and more evenhanded approach would work there. I have a hard time imagining Turdeau for example governing the Philippines.

I don't remember if I told you folks the bullet scam story (true story). For a while corrupt airport security in Manila were slipping bullets (yes, lime ammo) into people's luggage, finding them, and then extorting bribes or threatening a very serious charge. They messed up in who they targetted (an old lady; a missionary) and it became widely known as a scam. People were saran wrapping their check in luggage to avoid it. Finally Duterte just flat out said the equivalent of "If anyone plants a bullet on anyone, and I find out, I will have them dead". The scam stopped immediately. He pretty much ended organized crime and street gangs the same way. Heavy fisted zero tolerance. Definitely wouldn't work in the west, but an iron fisted leader may actually get more done in some places (shrug)

Has he gotten results? According to his wiki page:

Davao has the highest murder rate, the second highest rape rate, and the fourth highest number of index crimes in the country, according to official police raw data for the years 2010 to 2015. Nevertheless, Duterte claims that the city is one of the world's safest, a narrative that gained currency in the national media, creating a widespread public perception that has been a significant factor in establishing support for his nationwide drug policy.

I mean, Donald Trump is the single most effective President in the entire history of forever, if you use Donald Trump as the source of your information. If you use any other source, he's about the least effective.

Duterte saying that he's getting results and his media outlets parroting the claim that he's getting results aren't the same as his getting results.

Now, I know little to nothing about Duterte and don't know one way or the other if he's getting results or if he's making things worse. A quick google search on the topic, however, makes it seem that he's the source of the claim that he's getting results, and that's not based off of any actual analysis of results.

He is another of those authoritarians Trump likes.

Duarte admitted to his personal extra judicial killings of drug people. That is what people in the PI mean by he is getting things done.

Suspension of civil rights to combat serious crime, and many accept it in euchre for better safety. Argentina like death squads.

Trump would like to be like that, but republican congress is string to get a backbone.

 

[steve_bank]

Anybody here follow news and politics in the Philippines? I am surprised nobody has mentioned this yet on a mostly atheist "Talk Freethought" board.

This is hilarious, blunt, and awesome, and Duterte is getting a lot of flack for it from his mostly Catholic people....

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/...d/news-story/0a4ed3a7cb7a78cfc203148597de904a

“Adam ate (the fruit of knowledge), then malice was born. Who is this stupid God?” he said.

“That son of a b***h is stupid if that’s the case. You created something perfect and then you think of an event that would tempt and destroy the quality of your work.”

Duterte also questioned the rationale of original sin, noting, “That was your mother and father’s deed — you weren’t born yet, but now you have original sin. What kind of religion is that? I can’t accept it.”

Amid criticisms over Duterte’s statements, presidential spokesman Harry Roque urged the public to accept that the leader tends to use strong language when he expresses his beliefs.

He is about as hilarious as a dictator like person with power can be.

 

[steve_bank]

https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/17/rodrigo-duterte-rise-philippines-death-squad-mayor

For Rodrigo Duterte, the brutal death squads that have claimed the lives of more than 1,000 people during his tenure as mayor of Davao City in the Philippines’ main southern island of Mindanao are not a problem. They’re a political platform.



Duterte publicly admitted his direct links to the Davao death squad during a May 24 live broadcast of his weekly television talk show. “Am I the death squad? True. That is true,” Duterte said on-air while discussing his accomplishments as Davao’s chief executive. He then pledged that if he became president of the Philippines he would execute 100,000 more criminals and dump their bodies in Manila Bay.



Duterte’s comments echoed those he made on May 15, which asserted the summary killing of suspected criminals as a key plank to his approach to public security: “We’re the ninth safest city. How do you think I did it? How did I reach that title among the world’s safest cities? Kill them all [criminals].”



Duterte’s claim of responsibility for the extrajudicial killings of hundreds of people has drawn deafening silence from President Benigno Aquino III. And aside from an expression of outrage from Philippines Secretary of Justice Leila De Lima, Duterte’s comments have drawn scant public criticism.



Instead, observers describe Duterte’s public admission of complicity with the Davao death squad as an act of shrewd political branding in the lead-up to presidential elections in May 2016. Those political ambitions are not misplaced. Recent public opinion polls place Duterte as the public’s third most popular potential candidate out of a field of known presidential hopefuls. On May 22, Vice President Jejomar Binay told reporters that he was considering Duterte as his running mate in his presidential bid next year.



The apparent public and political support for that initiative betrays a willful ignorance of the sinister reality of Duterte’s approach to public order. The operation of “death squads” in Davao while Duterte has been the city’s mayor has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of street children, petty criminals, and petty drug dealers since 1998.