Vaccinations

[PyramidHead]

We have a damn sight more to fear from creeping oligarchy -- which isn't creeping any more, it's in full gallop.

Absolutely. Both ideas are big government. We need to reduce government power. I don't know how -- it is firmly entrenched.

We should start by abolishing mandatory vaccinations. They remove the freedom of people to fail at fending off infection while spreading it across the population. That should help with the oligarchy problem. Next should be traffic lights, as they remove my freedom to fail to avoid plowing into a family of four as they cross the street.

 

[Harry Bosch]

We have a damn sight more to fear from creeping oligarchy -- which isn't creeping any more, it's in full gallop.

Absolutely. Both ideas are big government. We need to reduce government power. I don't know how -- it is firmly entrenched.

We should start by abolishing mandatory vaccinations. They remove the freedom of people to fail at fending off infection while spreading it across the population. That should help with the oligarchy problem. Next should be traffic lights, as they remove my freedom to fail to avoid plowing into a family of four as they cross the street.

Sure, let's allow voluntary vaccinations. However, put all crazy people with their unvaccinated kids in a penal colony to separate from society. Innocent kids shouldn't have to be exposed to their germs.

 

[PyramidHead]

We should start by abolishing mandatory vaccinations. They remove the freedom of people to fail at fending off infection while spreading it across the population. That should help with the oligarchy problem. Next should be traffic lights, as they remove my freedom to fail to avoid plowing into a family of four as they cross the street.

Sure, let's allow voluntary vaccinations. However, put all crazy people with their unvaccinated kids in a penal colony to separate from society. Innocent kids shouldn't have to be exposed to their germs.

Why are the unvaccinated kids not also innocent?

 

[George S]

We should start by abolishing mandatory vaccinations. They remove the freedom of people to fail at fending off infection while spreading it across the population. That should help with the oligarchy problem. Next should be traffic lights, as they remove my freedom to fail to avoid plowing into a family of four as they cross the street.

Sure, let's allow voluntary vaccinations. However, put all crazy people with their unvaccinated kids in a penal colony to separate from society. Innocent kids shouldn't have to be exposed to their germs.

Why are the unvaccinated kids not also innocent?

People who vaccinate their children are unaffected by unvaccinated kids. Most unvaccinated kids are protected by the halo effect -- everyone around them is (usually) vaccinated.
I encourage all parents to vaccinate their children. They have the right to be a bad parent in this regard.
Can children be protected from this bad parenting? Yes. Mostly. Just have a PSA about particular unvaccinated children who have died. Anecdotes are persuasive. As long as it is above 85% the halo effect will protect almost all of the unvaccinated.

 

[PyramidHead]

Why are the unvaccinated kids not also innocent?

People who vaccinate their children are unaffected by unvaccinated kids. Most unvaccinated kids are protected by the halo effect -- everyone around them is (usually) vaccinated.

I wonder why that is! What could cause such a large majority of the population to be vaccinated, I wonder?

I encourage all parents to vaccinate their children. They have the right to be a bad parent in this regard.
Can children be protected from this bad parenting? Yes. Mostly. Just have a PSA about particular unvaccinated children who have died. Anecdotes are persuasive. As long as it is above 85% the halo effect will protect almost all of the unvaccinated.

Measles outbreak threatening public health? Just hire Scott Bakula for an afternoon to explain that diseases are bad and can kill cute kids. Anecdotes are persuasive. Shoot me in the face.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I wonder why that is! What could cause such a large majority of the population to be vaccinated, I wonder?

I encourage all parents to vaccinate their children. They have the right to be a bad parent in this regard.
Can children be protected from this bad parenting? Yes. Mostly. Just have a PSA about particular unvaccinated children who have died. Anecdotes are persuasive. As long as it is above 85% the halo effect will protect almost all of the unvaccinated.

Measles outbreak threatening public health? Just hire Scott Bakula for an afternoon to explain that diseases are bad and can kill cute kids. Anecdotes are persuasive. Shoot me in the face.

Well, if you could find a cute blonde teen that died as a result of inadequate vaccination rates, that might be compelling enough to many.

 

[George S]

I wonder why that is! What could cause such a large majority of the population to be vaccinated, I wonder?

Because, it happens that most parents are not bad parents.

I encourage all parents to vaccinate their children. They have the right to be a bad parent in this regard.
Can children be protected from this bad parenting? Yes. Mostly. Just have a PSA about particular unvaccinated children who have died. Anecdotes are persuasive. As long as it is above 85% the halo effect will protect almost all of the unvaccinated.

Measles outbreak threatening public health? Just hire Scott Bakula for an afternoon to explain that diseases are bad and can kill cute kids. Anecdotes are persuasive. Shoot me in the face.

 

[KeepTalking]

Why are the unvaccinated kids not also innocent?

People who vaccinate their children are unaffected by unvaccinated kids.

People who have compromised immune systems are affected by unvaccinated kids.

 

[Playball40]

Actually not true which is why we are having such an awful outbreak of measles right now. Too many people NOT vaccinating. And that's unfair to the babies too young to vaccinate or people with compromised immune systems etc etc.

Why are the unvaccinated kids not also innocent?

People who vaccinate their children are unaffected by unvaccinated kids. Most unvaccinated kids are protected by the halo effect -- everyone around them is (usually) vaccinated.
I encourage all parents to vaccinate their children. They have the right to be a bad parent in this regard.
Can children be protected from this bad parenting? Yes. Mostly. Just have a PSA about particular unvaccinated children who have died. Anecdotes are persuasive. As long as it is above 85% the halo effect will protect almost all of the unvaccinated.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Why are the unvaccinated kids not also innocent?

People who vaccinate their children are unaffected by unvaccinated kids.

People who have compromised immune systems are affected by unvaccinated kids.

Yep. There is also a very tiny percentage of time where the vaccine fail. It could fail due to the mixture not working or sometimes the medical technician doesn't deliver it correctly. As noted above, herd immunity helps cover everyone. But the anti-vaccineers are destroying herd immunity making us all at risk.

 

[ZiprHead]

Please can the vax/anti-vax conversation in this thread. It is a derail.

Written as administrator.

 

[bilby]

Why are the unvaccinated kids not also innocent?

People who vaccinate their children are unaffected by unvaccinated kids.

That's not actually true. But even if it was, it wouldn't justify allowing parents to choose to endanger their children unnecessarily by not vaccinating them.

Most unvaccinated kids are protected by the halo effect -- everyone around them is (usually) vaccinated.
I encourage all parents to vaccinate their children. They have the right to be a bad parent in this regard.

No, they don't.

Parents have an obligation to ensure that their children are cared for. Children are a responsibility, not part of a parent's personal property.

Can children be protected from this bad parenting? Yes. Mostly.

Indeed. They can be taken into the care of the state.

Just have a PSA about particular unvaccinated children who have died. Anecdotes are persuasive. As long as it is above 85% the halo effect will protect almost all of the unvaccinated.

You are wrong. Your figures are wrong, your assumptions are wrong, and your morals are broken.

Parents no more have the right to choose not to vaccinate their children than they have the right to choose not to feed their children.

 

[Rhea]

Why are the unvaccinated kids not also innocent?

People who vaccinate their children are unaffected by unvaccinated kids.

Not true. Whoever gave my 9-month old baby chickenpox absolutely affected him. And when it re-manifested as shingles at age 16, he was affected again.

As long as it is above 85% the halo effect will protect almost all of the unvaccinated.

And we are seeing holes in that halo, hence the problem with unvaccinated people.

 

[Harry Bosch]

It's too bad that this was moved into the natural science thread. There is no scientific debate regarding vaccinate or not. The anti-vaccinators have no science on their side. So what is to debate? The key issue is whether not parents have the moral right to decide to not vaccinate at the risk of harming society. This is a political issue.

 

[Rhea]

I agree. Political or Moral. But not science.

 

[bilby]

+1

 

[rousseau]

There's no moral or political debate either.

'Do this thing that inconveniences you slightly, and where there is absolutely no downside for the greater good of your community.. or not?'

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I'm reasonably sure if someone could invent a way to give vaccinations that didn't cause pain and look scary this wouldn't even be a problem.

 

[steve_bank]

In the news somebody from congress had sis kids exposed to sick kids. As he put it his kids got sick and got over it, no need for vaccinations.

 

[bilby]

In the news somebody from congress had sis kids exposed to sick kids. As he put it his kids got sick and got over it, no need for vaccinations.

My grandad served in North Africa in WWII. He returned home uninjured. Therefore by the same logic, fighting Rommel in the desert was completely safe.

 

[skepticalbip]

In the news somebody from congress had sis kids exposed to sick kids. As he put it his kids got sick and got over it, no need for vaccinations.

That is the same idea as a vaccination except much more risky. In both cases the body is intentionally infected with some disease pathogen so the immune system will develop antibodies against it. Vaccines do this with weakened or dead pathogens so are not as likely to cause severe symptoms or death.