Game of Thrones - Season 8 (spoilers)

[ZiprHead]

in 16 hours:
1. jon will stab dany but she fucks off with her dragon never to be seen again, and he ends up being exiled to the night's watch even though the night's watch doesn't exist anymore, and then shows up in the north with tormund and ghost.
2. everyone will randomly elect bran as the new king of westeros.
3. half the episode will be a montage of "riding off into the sunset" for the other characters.
4. at least part of the episode will be intended to be a tease for prequels and spinoffs.

Fairly accurate. Where'd you get that info?

I had heard the story had been leaked prior to the episode airing. I suspect this is where P&F got it from.

 

[prideandfall]

heh yes as much fun as it would be to claim psychic powers or mad deduction skills, a bullet point of episode plots was leaked to reddit weeks ago and I heard about it in a podcast.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Unsullied 4: He murdered our Queen!
Unsullied 5: Let's kill him!
Unsullied 3: No, we need to detain him so he can be held for his crimes.
Unsullied 5: We are doing that now?

heh yes as much fun as it would be to claim psychic powers or mad deduction skills, a bullet point of episode plots was leaked to reddit weeks ago and I heard about it in a podcast.

I was thinking, 'how the fuck did he get it that right'? I was wondering what in the world I missed, but others saw coming. The biggest thing I got wrong was Tyrion, I was so certain he was dead meat since a season or two ago.

 

[crazyfingers]

I have never watched it and am getting pretty tired of all the news on it.

 

[jab]

I could. She had a list and after pardoning the Hound, she was the last one on the list.

The Jaime storyline wrapped up nicely with just him and Cersei there and you didn’t need some random other character just inserting herself into the scene.

I was fine with it, but I would have rather had Arya standing over that lannister and severing her head from her body the same way her father's was. And would have been fine if Arya had died in the dragon napalm thunderdome thereafter. At least she finished what she set out to do. Now I'm kind of lost on the Arya storyline - does she even want to be an assassin any more?

aa

No--she want's to be an explorer. . .

 

[jab]

One very good scene--the very last scene: no dialogue.

Two good scenes--1. the dragon after, for no logical reason, but for symbolic import (an example of how not to symbolize in a narrative) it melts the iron throne--the rest of the scene after the foundry bit is good--no dialogue; 2. confrontation between Jon and Greyworm over killing a row of prisoners--some dialogue; this scene however, makes the fates of the variously and subsequently apprehended Tyrion and Jon seem not beleivable--thus actually makes later parts of the episode suck more.

The rest: tedious, and sometimes inadvertently funny (e. g. Jon Slush's and Deliriously Targ's stab at tragedy, Dinklage's grimacing while straining to deliver the klutzy, overly long make-FlakeyBran-King speech).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

One minor nitpick... what the fuck was the deal with the white horse at the end of the second to last episode?! First time we see Arya in last episode, no horse. So we are left with a perfectly symbolic scene that is milked to death with absolutely no meaning!

It is almost as if the writers were each given an episode to write with a specific set of events (okay, Battle of Winterfell... plot!) and not told what the other writers did.

And can we ask why Greyjoy was upset that Jon killed the Queen that slaughtered the town? Or where all the Dothraki came back from?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The rest: tedious, and sometimes inadvertently funny (e. g. Jon Slush's and Deliriously Targ's stab at tragedy, Dinklage's grimacing while straining to deliver the klutzy, overly long make-FlakeyBran-King speech).

Yes, I've talked too much. I was wrong about everything. I don't deserve power... let me choose the king!

 

[ZiprHead]

And they did it again. This time a water bottle.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The coffee and water bottle are the most unimportant flaws in Season 8.

I'd find that when Sansa's uncle decides he might be worthy of being a King after the big ass humbling he went through... for a cheap giggle was a bit more annoying than a bottle of water almost no one saw.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Introducing your new king's superpower:

omni-present voyeurism

 

[ronburgundy]

I think people are being a bit harsh. It's impossible to bring an emotionally satisfying end to a series like that in a believable way, because world's don't end. The only realistic way to do it is to simply stop filming without most things being resolved, because that is how life is. Most people would be pissed at that, as they were with Sopranos and that was a far simply world. The other alternative would be to just kill off everyone, so all their stories really do "end". People would have been pissed about that too.

Instead, they tried to answer most of the major questions while allowing that theoretical world to continue and without an obvious cliffhanger that would have also pissed people off.
I mean, if Daenerys hadn't wiped out the city, then the last two episodes would be rather boring, and counter to her proven vengeful nature. So, she had to do that and therefore Jon had to kill her, otherwise it would have ended with her about to set off to destroy/liberate the world. And if Jon kills her, then we can't have him killed by the unsullied, or it would have ended with a cliffhanger of the Unsullied and the armies of the North poised on mutual destruction.

Although Bran's character was annoyingly disappointing and not very useful during the battle with the whitewalkers, his choice as King made a lot of sense, including in the minds of that "council" . He was knowledgeable and benevolent, had no enemies, and the fact that he couldn't have kids I thought was a clever way to convey the "breaking of the wheel" and end to rule by birth into a particular family. His "lameness" both physically and personality-wise made him a good choice as king.

Arya, the most likable character throughout the series IMO, makes the most sense as a spinoff, and her ending set that up. While her or Sansa beheading Cersei would have been emotionally satisfying that would have been too unrealistically "neat". I thought robbing the audience of that kind of vengeful bloodlust against someone so vile and having her death be incidental and at no one's direct hand was amusingly realistic to how most evil fucks die.

Dragon melting the chair was hit-over-the-head "symbolic" but not as silly as people make it out. It's been made it clear that the Dragon's are extremely intelligent and highly attuned to Daenerys thoughts and feelings. For the same reason, Dragon knew she had been stabbed, he'd know what the throne was and represented, and want to destroy it as she would have if she couldn't have it.

My biggest problem with the episode was how did anyone find out that Jon stabbed Daenerys in the heart? No one was there and Dragon flew off with her. That implies Jon admitted to it which was selfishly moronic. The whole point in killing her was to prevent further war and bloodshed. Admitting to killing her made war with the Unsullied likely. While they would have suspected him, he could have made something up like an assassin ambushed her in the throne room, Dragon came and incinerated him then flew off with her body. OTOH, Jon is the kind of Putz who would admit to it out of honor.

Others have complained that the Unsullied held Jon prisoner rather than kill him immediately. But the Unsullied don't make their own decisions. They were slaves their whole lives and then willful servants to Daenerys who mindlessly followed her orders. So, it makes sense they would not act on their own.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think people are being a bit harsh. It's impossible to bring an emotionally satisfying end to a series like that in a believable way, because world's don't end. The only realistic way to do it is to simply stop filming without most things being resolved, because that is how life is. Most people would be pissed at that, as they were with Sopranos and that was a far simply world. The other alternative would be to just kill off everyone, so all their stories really do "end". People would have been pissed about that too.

While not common, Buffy and Babylon 5 ended Season 5 and 4, respectively, in a manner that was completely compelling and satisfying! Babylon 5 managed to wrap up two massive arcs.

Instead, they tried to answer most of the major questions while allowing that theoretical world to continue and without an obvious cliffhanger that would have also pissed people off.

I mean, if Daenerys hadn't wiped out the city, then the last two episodes would be rather boring, and counter to her proven vengeful nature. So, she had to do that and therefore Jon had to kill her, otherwise it would have ended with her about to set off to destroy/liberate the world. And if Jon kills her, then we can't have him killed by the unsullied, or it would have ended with a cliffhanger of the Unsullied and the armies of the North poised on mutual destruction.

Of course, we are left with Angry Daenerys in episode 5 saying Jon Snow betrayed her and torching the city, while manic depressive episode 6 George Patton / lovey dovey Daenerys wants lover boy (nephew) to be with her to free (conquer) the world, giving him the opportunity to poke Dany in the heart.

Episode 6 was hamstrung by Episode 5 and had to somehow resolve a ridiculous unexplainable plot swerve, and did so rather poorly. Episode 6 felt so numb because there was going to be no acceptable way to resolve this mess. A series finale should never be anti-climatic at the start!

Arya, the most likable character throughout the series IMO, makes the most sense as a spinoff, and her ending set that up.

Good dog no!!! The writers couldn't handle GoT without books to work off of. Let's not give them an opportunity to fuck up an entirely new series. Besides, I've read that Williams is done with acting... at least for a while.

 

[J842P]

I think people are being a bit harsh. It's impossible to bring an emotionally satisfying end to a series like that in a believable way, because world's don't end. The only realistic way to do it is to simply stop filming without most things being resolved, because that is how life is. Most people would be pissed at that, as they were with Sopranos and that was a far simply world. The other alternative would be to just kill off everyone, so all their stories really do "end". People would have been pissed about that too.

Instead, they tried to answer most of the major questions while allowing that theoretical world to continue and without an obvious cliffhanger that would have also pissed people off.
I mean, if Daenerys hadn't wiped out the city, then the last two episodes would be rather boring, and counter to her proven vengeful nature. So, she had to do that and therefore Jon had to kill her, otherwise it would have ended with her about to set off to destroy/liberate the world. And if Jon kills her, then we can't have him killed by the unsullied, or it would have ended with a cliffhanger of the Unsullied and the armies of the North poised on mutual destruction.

Although Bran's character was annoyingly disappointing and not very useful during the battle with the whitewalkers, his choice as King made a lot of sense, including in the minds of that "council" . He was knowledgeable and benevolent, had no enemies, and the fact that he couldn't have kids I thought was a clever way to convey the "breaking of the wheel" and end to rule by birth into a particular family. His "lameness" both physically and personality-wise made him a good choice as king.

Arya, the most likable character throughout the series IMO, makes the most sense as a spinoff, and her ending set that up. While her or Sansa beheading Cersei would have been emotionally satisfying that would have been too unrealistically "neat". I thought robbing the audience of that kind of vengeful bloodlust against someone so vile and having her death be incidental and at no one's direct hand was amusingly realistic to how most evil fucks die.

Dragon melting the chair was hit-over-the-head "symbolic" but not as silly as people make it out. It's been made it clear that the Dragon's are extremely intelligent and highly attuned to Daenerys thoughts and feelings. For the same reason, Dragon knew she had been stabbed, he'd know what the throne was and represented, and want to destroy it as she would have if she couldn't have it.

My biggest problem with the episode was how did anyone find out that Jon stabbed Daenerys in the heart? No one was there and Dragon flew off with her. That implies Jon admitted to it which was selfishly moronic. The whole point in killing her was to prevent further war and bloodshed. Admitting to killing her made war with the Unsullied likely. While they would have suspected him, he could have made something up like an assassin ambushed her in the throne room, Dragon came and incinerated him then flew off with her body. OTOH, Jon is the kind of Putz who would admit to it out of honor.

Others have complained that the Unsullied held Jon prisoner rather than kill him immediately. But the Unsullied don't make their own decisions. They were slaves their whole lives and then willful servants to Daenerys who mindlessly followed her orders. So, it makes sense they would not act on their own.

I don't mind how it all ended, I just don't think it was executed well, and they really didn't give Daenarys (or any of the major characters) her due after 8 seasons.

The whole thing just seemed rushed. A dragon's death and Missandei's death served the purpose of pushing her over the edge, but it still seems like a total 180 on her character.

In other words, while I have hated many of the decisions other characters have made, or their outcomes, I found them totally believable, and that's because GRRM does a good job of crafting the story. Without his guide, I just don't think the writers were up to it.

There was a youtube review on this which stated it this way: foreshadowing is not character development. So while yes, Daenary's descent is foreshadowed, that does not make up for a lack of character development that would have made it all believable. I think they wasted too much time in the previous season, they should have just left out the Sand Snakes and the Dornish plotline almost entirely, and used some of that time to further develop Dany into a Mad Queen. Instead, it was just too damn sudden.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

 

[ronburgundy]

Episode 6 was hamstrung by Episode 5 and had to somehow resolve a ridiculous unexplainable plot swerve, and did so rather poorly.

What plot swerve? That she destroyed the city? That was highly predictable and quite in line with her character. She has always shown signs of emotional instability, self-righteousness, and murderous vengeful rage. Since she first hatch her plan to regain the throne, she made it clear that she didn't care if she killed everyone in Westeros in the process.

 

[ronburgundy]

. I think they wasted too much time in the previous season, they should have just left out the Sand Snakes and the Dornish plotline almost entirely, and used some of that time to further develop Dany into a Mad Queen. Instead, it was just too damn sudden.

I just don't get this notion that Dany's "madness" was "sudden". I thought there were always signs of it from season 1 onward. She was insecure, jealous, vengeful, power hungry and cruel the entire series, even while she was freeing the slaves to create an army and applaud herself as a "liberator". I don't see how fans ever thought she was the clear "good guy". It always seemed like they were leading up to her being very dangerous, but in a different and less purely sociopathically evil way than Cersei.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Episode 6 was hamstrung by Episode 5 and had to somehow resolve a ridiculous unexplainable plot swerve, and did so rather poorly.

What plot swerve? That she destroyed the city? That was highly predictable and quite in line with her character. She has always shown signs of emotional instability, self-righteousness, and murderous vengeful rage. Since she first hatch her plan to regain the throne, she made it clear that she didn't care if she killed everyone in Westeros in the process.

She skipped over the killing a couple innocents to kill lots of bad guys transition into unfettered slaughter of innocents.

 

[bilby]

. I think they wasted too much time in the previous season, they should have just left out the Sand Snakes and the Dornish plotline almost entirely, and used some of that time to further develop Dany into a Mad Queen. Instead, it was just too damn sudden.

I just don't get this notion that Dany's "madness" was "sudden". I thought there were always signs of it from season 1 onward. She was insecure, jealous, vengeful, power hungry and cruel the entire series, even while she was freeing the slaves to create an army and applaud herself as a "liberator". I don't see how fans ever thought she was the clear "good guy". It always seemed like they were leading up to her being very dangerous, but in a different and less purely sociopathically evil way than Cersei.

I get the strong impression that people on the whole don't care if their leaders are evil tyrants, right up until they stop using their power in ways of which the people approve.

Slaughter a bunch of citizens in order to free some slaves, and the non-slaver people cheer, secure in the belief that they won't be next in line for genocide. Slaughter them to avenge the death of a pet, and all of a sudden the non-slave owning citizens decide that wholesale slaughter of citizens is a bad thing.

People aren't shocked by genocide, they are shocked by the genocide being directed at people who weren't designated as "them". You can abuse "them" as much as you like, and nobody will call you mad - they'll even cheer you on.

 

[jab]

One minor nitpick... what the fuck was the deal with the white horse at the end of the second to last episode?! First time we see Arya in last episode, no horse. So we are left with a perfectly symbolic scene that is milked to death with absolutely no meaning!

It is almost as if the writers were each given an episode to write with a specific set of events (okay, Battle of Winterfell... plot!) and not told what the other writers did.

And can we ask why Greyjoy was upset that Jon killed the Queen that slaughtered the town? Or where all the Dothraki came back from?

yep, I agree those are all genuinely lousy nits, and need to be picked.