Maybe it would be good for science to make up new words to describe laws, etc

[Keith&Co.]

Male: XY chromosomes. Female: XX chromosome.

I have not seen a chromosome since 12th grade Biology.
Somehow, i deal with the men and women at work, at the bookstore, in the airport men's room, and the coffee drive-thru where the baristas are topless, all without demanding a DNA test.

So, why does it matter?

I've never seen a baby born where the parents say, "it has a penis! But, we can't say this is a male yet. We have to wait to see if the baby identifies as a male first." Have you seen this phenomena anywhere?

i have seen girls dressed like boys for the first few years of their life because daddy wanted a son. I have seen a single boy who wore dresses until second grade.
So?

I always see, "It's a boy!" or "it's a girl!" I never heard, "Let's wait. We don't know for sure yet."

WHAT
DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE TO YOU,
THOUGH?

 

[bilby]

So, yousayingbyou actually do sell liquor? Okay, then tggat matters.
Do you sell and fit intrauterine birth control?
Or anything where the gender of the client matters? You do know that part of the gender transition process can include changing the gender, right?
So, what do you do, then?

Do you understand now? Please tell me you do!

still don't see why i should give a fuck, or why you do?

Male: XY chromosomes. Female: XX chromosome.

You appear to be labouring under the delusion that this is some kind of universal truth. But it's not even true just for humans - there are documented cases of XY females and XX males, as well as individuals with XXY and XYY chromosomes, and even other arrangements than these.

In other species there are a variety of sex chromosome systems, such as ZW (female) and ZZ (male); or XX (female) and X (male).

Everything about the relationship between genotype, chromosome number and morphology, and phenotype, in sex linked traits, is vastly more complex than you appear to comprehend; Being a simpleton means being wrong on a regular basis, and frankly it's becoming embarrassing to watch you make such a fool of yourself with your insistence that your very tiny kernel of dumbed down "knowledge" is the whole of the truth of the matter.

You seriously need to learn a shitload more biology before you are able to contribute meaningfully to this discussion. Please, stop. Feel free to come back when you have gotten an education, to apologise (if you're brave enough).

 

[Half-Life]

Why do i give a fuck what someone self-identifies as if there is no risk of harm to others?

I think that's quite an important consideration.

Because, I've been trying to come up with a good, consistent reason why the 69 year old Dutch guy should not get to change his birth certificate as regards his age (because he feels younger) while someone else can do it for their gender, and I can't think of one.

Wow you agree on age change? Suppose a 69 year old man identifies as a 15 year old. Does this mean he should be allowed to have sex with 15 year old girls?

You see the can of worms this opens up?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Why do i give a fuck what someone self-identifies as if there is no risk of harm to others?

I think that's quite an important consideration.

Because, I've been trying to come up with a good, consistent reason why the 69 year old Dutch guy should not get to change his birth certificate as regards his age (because he feels younger) while someone else can do it for their gender, and I can't think of one.

Why would they have to be consistent?

My doctors all pay attention to my age, it impacts more than one condition i suffer from. And dictates certain choices in treatment.
Even having 'the bidy of a forty year old' does not change the actual risk my 57-year-old colon faces for colon cancer, for one.
So i'd say it had better be a matter of applications. You want a Sweet 16 birthday party, i will send you a card, and not even ironically.
I, on the other hand, cannot and should not hope to escape prosecution for tgat incident when i was 12 by taking 13 years off my afe and claiming it was before my time, thus inocent.

On the other hand, Halfie has YET to explain one reason why the sex/gender/plumbing of any transgendered person matter a whit to his dumb ass... except something about his fantasy sex life, maybe.

 

[Half-Life]

Why do i give a fuck what someone self-identifies as if there is no risk of harm to others?

I think that's quite an important consideration.

Because, I've been trying to come up with a good, consistent reason why the 69 year old Dutch guy should not get to change his birth certificate as regards his age (because he feels younger) while someone else can do it for their gender, and I can't think of one.

Why would they have to be consistent?

My doctors all pay attention to my age, it impacts more than one condition i suffer from. And dictates certain choices in treatment.
Even having 'the bidy of a forty year old' does not change the actual risk my 57-year-old colon faces for colon cancer, for one.
So i'd say it had better be a matter of applications. You want a Sweet 16 birthday party, i will send you a card, and not even ironically.
I, on the other hand, cannot and should not hope to escape prosecution for tgat incident when i was 12 by taking 13 years off my afe and claiming it was before my time, thus inocent.

On the other hand, Halfie has YET to explain one reason why the sex/gender/plumbing of any transgendered person matter a whit to his dumb ass... except something about his fantasy sex life, maybe.

My post #143 is the whole ball game on this subject. I'm not surprised people can't answer without tripping over themselves.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Why would they have to be consistent?

My doctors all pay attention to my age, it impacts more than one condition i suffer from. And dictates certain choices in treatment.
Even having 'the bidy of a forty year old' does not change the actual risk my 57-year-old colon faces for colon cancer, for one.
So i'd say it had better be a matter of applications. You want a Sweet 16 birthday party, i will send you a card, and not even ironically.
I, on the other hand, cannot and should not hope to escape prosecution for tgat incident when i was 12 by taking 13 years off my afe and claiming it was before my time, thus inocent.

On the other hand, Halfie has YET to explain one reason why the sex/gender/plumbing of any transgendered person matter a whit to his dumb ass... except something about his fantasy sex life, maybe.

My post #143 is the whole ball game on this subject. I'm not surprised people can't answer without tripping over themselves.

What trip, Half? Where do you see a trip over myself?

And still: why does it matter to you if the woman in the elevator with you has a penis?

Where did Jesus literally say SSM was literally a sin?

Who here has screamed BIASED! at you?

Can you tell us the difference between deductive and inductive logic?

When has anyone linked you to an atheist website in order yo prove atheism?

 

[bilby]

Why do i give a fuck what someone self-identifies as if there is no risk of harm to others?

I think that's quite an important consideration.

Because, I've been trying to come up with a good, consistent reason why the 69 year old Dutch guy should not get to change his birth certificate as regards his age (because he feels younger) while someone else can do it for their gender, and I can't think of one.

Wow you agree on age change? Suppose a 69 year old man identifies as a 15 year old. Does this mean he should be allowed to have sex with 15 year old girls?

You see the can of worms this opens up?

In the civilised world, nobody of any age is allowed to have sex with 15 year old girls. (Though of course it happens anyway - policing who has sex with whom has always been difficult in a society that permits privacy).

There's no can; no worms; and not even a can opener.

Epic fail. Remind me never to go fishing with you.

 

[Half-Life]

Wow you agree on age change? Suppose a 69 year old man identifies as a 15 year old. Does this mean he should be allowed to have sex with 15 year old girls?

You see the can of worms this opens up?

In the civilised world, nobody of any age is allowed to have sex with 15 year old girls. (Though of course it happens anyway - policing who has sex with whom has always been difficult in a society that permits privacy).

There's no can; no worms; and not even a can opener.

Epic fail. Remind me never to go fishing with you.

15 year olds can have sex with 15 year olds!! MY GOD!!!!

 

[Keith&Co.]

Wow you agree on age change? Suppose a 69 year old man identifies as a 15 year old. Does this mean he should be allowed to have sex with 15 year old girls?

You see the can of worms this opens up?

In the civilised world, nobody of any age is allowed to have sex with 15 year old girls. (Though of course it happens anyway - policing who has sex with whom has always been difficult in a society that permits privacy).

There's no can; no worms; and not even a can opener.

Epic fail. Remind me never to go fishing with you.

15 year olds can NOT have sex with 15 year olds!! MY GOD!!!!

FIFY.

Did you not know this?
Even if your hypothetical man got hypothetically transaged, his legal age would not offer any defense.

Sadly, all you appear to offer on this topic is fear mongering and disgust.
If we're not stupid, you have nothing to offer.

 

[Half-Life]

15 year olds can have sex with 15 year olds!! MY GOD!!!!

Did you not know this?
Even if your hypothetical man got hypothetically transaged, his legal age would not offer any defense.

Sadly, all you appear to offer on this topic is fear mongering and disgust.
If we're not stupid, you have nothing to offer.

If the court sided with him, his LEGAL AGE would be 15! That's the whole point of this! If his LEGAL AGE is 15, you can't tell him he can't have sex with 15 year olds.

 

[bilby]

Wow you agree on age change? Suppose a 69 year old man identifies as a 15 year old. Does this mean he should be allowed to have sex with 15 year old girls?

You see the can of worms this opens up?

In the civilised world, nobody of any age is allowed to have sex with 15 year old girls. (Though of course it happens anyway - policing who has sex with whom has always been difficult in a society that permits privacy).

There's no can; no worms; and not even a can opener.

Epic fail. Remind me never to go fishing with you.

15 year olds can have sex with 15 year olds!! MY GOD!!!!

In the civilised world the age of consent is 16. Anyone who has sex with a 15 year old girl is committing a crime. Of course, the law may be different where you live.

And a 16 year old girl can consent to sex with anyone she chooses. No matter how icky YOU might think it is.

None of this has much to do with the topic - so can I presume that you are unable (yet again) to support your simplistic and foolish claims, and so have chosen (yet again) to fly off on another tangent?

 

[Keith&Co.]

15 year olds can have sex with 15 year olds!! MY GOD!!!!

Did you not know this?
Even if your hypothetical man got hypothetically transaged, his legal age would not offer any defense.

Sadly, all you appear to offer on this topic is fear mongering and disgust.
If we're not stupid, you have nothing to offer.

If the court sided with him, his LEGAL AGE would be 15!

So they would both be underage.

That's the whole point of this! If his LEGAL AGE is 15, you can't tell him he can't have sex with 15 year olds.

yes, actually, you can.

So, still nothing but appeals to emotions which we do not share....
Go to bed, Half, you're spinning your wheels.

 

[Half-Life]

If the court sided with him, his LEGAL AGE would be 15!

So they would both be underage.

That's the whole point of this! If his LEGAL AGE is 15, you can't tell him he can't have sex with 15 year olds.

yes, actually, you can.

So, still nothing but appeals to emotions which we do not share....
Go to bed, Half, you're spinning your wheels.

I've never heard a case of a girl getting pregnant at 15 by her 15 year old boyfriend (consensually) going to court for rape. When I was growing up in 7th grade, I knew two 13 year olds who had sex with each other. Nobody called the cops or went to court. What world do you guys live in?!?!

 

[bilby]

So they would both be underage. yes, actually, you can.

So, still nothing but appeals to emotions which we do not share....
Go to bed, Half, you're spinning your wheels.

I've never heard a case of a girl getting pregnant at 15 by her 15 year old boyfriend (consensually) going to court for rape.

I am not at all surprised. The list of things that have happened but that you have never heard of must be extremely long.

When I was growing up in 7th grade, I knew two 13 year olds who had sex with each other. Nobody called the cops or went to court.

Well, that was lucky for the young man involved.

What world do you guys live in?!?!

One in which many crimes go undetected, unreported, and/or unpunished, but are still crimes?

You live in that world too - despite your evident ignorance of that fact.

 

[RavenSky]

The religious people seem to get so confused about what is a “theory” and what is a “Law.” As stunningly shown by half-life in the “something new” thread. I felt this would be in interesting and very different discussion, so I started a new thread.


So if religionists get confused by the word “law” and think it implies agency, and if they get confused about “theory” and think it means guess, maybe it would be very very useful to come up with some new words, defined only as scientific definitions, that have no baggage that can confuddle the faithful by making them think they mean something else.

Right now, in science and math the following words have specific meanings (that are not equal to the legal or colloquial meanings)
Law
Proof
Theory
Hypothesis
Cite
More?


What might this new vocabulary do for us? What might it include? Who knew this would be so very confusing for laypeople? (Yeah, they should have seen this coming...)

It wouldn't matter. The reason conservatives, the religious right, and uneducated people in general do not understand the meanings of the science-related words you mentioned is because in the 1980's the oil/gas & coal companies started a targeted purposeful disinformation campaign.

http://drilled.libsyn.com/the-turn <<<< excellent podcast on the topic

As to the word "theory" specifically:

Long before the formation of the ACCCE, U.S. coal companies and their allies formed a short-lived but potent front group
in 1991 called the Information Council on the Environment (ICE) with the express purpose of deceiving the public about
climate science. Like the oil and gas industry, the coal industry put forth scientist spokespeople and ran ad campaigns
through ICE. And like those of the oil and gas industry, the coal industry’s tactics stayed under the radar until they were
exposed by leaked documents.

Internal documents leaked to the public in 1991 (Figure 7, p. 20 and Appendix E, p. 41), reveal ICE’s strategy: a plan to
“reposition global warming as theory (not fact)” and to “use a spokesman from the scientific community,” recognizing
that “technical sources receive the highest overall credibility ratings” (ICE 1991c).

https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/07/The-Climate-Deception-Dossiers.pdf

 

[Half-Life]

I am not at all surprised. The list of things that have happened but that you have never heard of must be extremely long.

When I was growing up in 7th grade, I knew two 13 year olds who had sex with each other. Nobody called the cops or went to court.

Well, that was lucky for the young man involved.

What world do you guys live in?!?!

One in which many crimes go undetected, unreported, and/or unpunished, but are still crimes?

You live in that world too - despite your evident ignorance of that fact.

So you lived in a world where no teenagers were having sex under 16? It may technically be a crime, but no one is going to report it. It happens a lot. We hear it from you guys, "Teenagers are going to have sex! Abstinence education won't work!"

You guys agree it happens!!!

 

[RavenSky]

What is wrong with saying that? A ball can not roll uphill because it obeys the law of gravity. It has to fall down. The question is, "Who put this law into place?" If you say "no one," then we must ask why the ball obeys gravity? If the universe was godless, why not expect some things to fly up at random intervals?

Good job proving her point

 

[RavenSky]

How 'bout renaming scripture as ancient guesswork?

Now that's a change I'd agree to!

 

[bilby]

I am not at all surprised. The list of things that have happened but that you have never heard of must be extremely long.

Well, that was lucky for the young man involved.

One in which many crimes go undetected, unreported, and/or unpunished, but are still crimes?

You live in that world too - despite your evident ignorance of that fact.

So you lived in a world where no teenagers were having sex under 16?

Not only did I not live in such a world, but it would be impossible for a reasonable person to draw that inference from anything I have written.

It may technically be a crime, but no one is going to report it.

That's simply not true.

It happens a lot.

Yes it does. And sometimes it gets reported, and sometimes teenaged boys go to jail for it.

We hear it from you guys, "Teenagers are going to have sex! Abstinence education won't work!"

They are, and it doesn't.

You guys agree it happens!!!

Of course we fucking do.

No legislature wastes time criminalising things that don't happen. And passing laws doesn't prevent people from committing crimes.

Robbing banks is illegal. That doesn't mean bank robberies don't happen.

A crime that goes undetected, or unreported, or unenforced, is nevertheless still a crime.

Why the fuck do you need such a basic concept explained to you?

 

[Keith&Co.]

So they would both be underage. yes, actually, you can.

So, still nothing but appeals to emotions which we do not share....
Go to bed, Half, you're spinning your wheels.

I've never heard a case of a girl getting pregnant at 15 by her 15 year old boyfriend (consensually) going to court for rape

Well, you are noticeably ignorant of many things. So fucking what?

When I was growing up in 7th grade, I knew two 13 year olds who had sex with each other. Nobody called the cops or went to court.

Now, imagine that one of them was a 69 year old man pretending to be 13. Do you REALLY think that no one would call the cops?

What world do you guys live in?!?!

not yours, thanks be to Thor.