Interesting Article About Mass Shooters

[TSwizzle]

LA Times Op Ed on mass shooters;

We have studied every mass shooting since 1966. Here’s what we’ve learned about the shooters; For two years, we’ve been studying the life histories of mass shooters in the United States for a project funded by the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the U.S. Department of Justice. We’ve built a database dating back to 1966 of every mass shooter who shot and killed four or more people in a public place, and every shooting incident at schools, workplaces, and places of worship since 1999. We’ve interviewed incarcerated perpetrators and their families, shooting survivors and first responders. We’ve read media and social media, manifestos, suicide notes, trial transcripts and medical records. Our goal has been to find new, data-driven pathways for preventing such shootings. Although we haven’t found that mass shooters are all alike, our data do reveal four commonalities among the perpetrators of nearly all the mass shootings we studied.

• First, the vast majority of mass shooters in our study experienced early childhood trauma and exposure to violence at a young age.
• Second, practically every mass shooter we studied had reached an identifiable crisis point in the weeks or months leading up to the shooting.
• Third, most of the shooters had studied the actions of other shooters and sought validation for their motives.
• Fourth, the shooters all had the means to carry out their plans.

LA Times

There is a lot more detail in the Op Ed.

 

[dismal]

Fourth, the shooters all had the means to carry out their plans.

This one seems to be at the "no shit Sherlock" level of tautology.

"All the mass shooters we studied had the means to become mass shooters".

Meanwhile, in sports science, all the sub 10 second 100 meter sprinters we studied had the physical ability to run 100 meters in under 10 seconds.

I'm sure the rest of it is insightful though.

 

[Toni]

Fourth, the shooters all had the means to carry out their plans.

This one seems to be at the "no shit Sherlock" level of tautology.

"All the mass shooters we studied had the means to become mass shooters".

Meanwhile, in sports science, all the sub 10 second 100 meter sprinters we studied had the physical ability to run 100 meters in under 10 seconds.

I'm sure the rest of it is insightful though.

Sure, try being a wise ass.

Of all of those commonalities, there is only one which we, as a society, have the fairly direct and quick means of curtailing and that's access.

Yes, it is perfectly possible to commit a mass murder by other means but MOST of the mass murders carried out in the US are carried out by using guns. Not all but most.

Limit or remove access to such weapons will make it harder to carry out such murders.

 

[dismal]

Fourth, the shooters all had the means to carry out their plans.

This one seems to be at the "no shit Sherlock" level of tautology.

"All the mass shooters we studied had the means to become mass shooters".

Meanwhile, in sports science, all the sub 10 second 100 meter sprinters we studied had the physical ability to run 100 meters in under 10 seconds.

I'm sure the rest of it is insightful though.

Sure, try being a wise ass.

Of all of those commonalities, there is only one which we, as a society, have the fairly direct and quick means of curtailing and that's access.

Yes, it is perfectly possible to commit a mass murder by other means but MOST of the mass murders carried out in the US are carried out by using guns. Not all but most.

Limit or remove access to such weapons will make it harder to carry out such murders.

Tip: it's called logic. You should try it!

 

[TSwizzle]

Fourth, the shooters all had the means to carry out their plans.

This one seems to be at the "no shit Sherlock" level of tautology.

There is a bit more to it.

I'm sure the rest of it is insightful though.

It is.

 

[southernhybrid]

Although brief, the article made some good points.

We also need to, as a society, be more proactive. Most mass public shooters are suicidal, and their crises are often well known to others before the shooting occurs. The vast majority of mass shooters leak their plans ahead of time. People who see or sense something is wrong, however, may not always say something to someone owing to the absence of clear reporting protocols or fear of overreaction and unduly labeling a person as a potential threat. Proactive violence prevention starts with schools, colleges, churches and employers initiating conversations about mental health and establishing systems for identifying individuals in crisis, reporting concerns and reaching out — not with punitive measures but with resources and long-term intervention. Everyone should be trained to recognize the signs of a crisis.

I think the above is very important. When I was growing up, we never heard of mass shootings, as they were extremely rare, but communities were much more connected back then. Neighbors knew each other. Parents looked out for each other's kids and corrected them when they acted out without being scorned. Familes were closer and it was unusual for families to live far apart, which allowed family members to have more support when an individual was having a personal crisis. If a parent was a problem, a grandparent, or an aunt or uncle was often available to help to give the child some guidance and emotional support.

While mental health services were never that great, funds for them has been cut back greatly since the 80s. So, there are fewer resources to help someone who is going through a personal crisis. A lot of these shooters are loners. Their only support system in on social media. If the social media they frequent consists mostly of angry, disconnected young men who dwell on hatred, and violence, it's bound to have a negative impact on other young men who are having problems. I mention young men because they are the ones who commit most of these shootings, although there are exceptions. At least two shooters that I remember were veterans of wars, and probably suffered from PTSD. The first one I recall was the shooter in the tower in Texas back in the 70s. I forgot his name, but remembered that he was a Viet Nam veteran.

I think the age of gun ownership should be at least 21. While there isn't enough support to ban military grade weapons, I think it's outrageous that they are legal. Who in their right mind needs such a weapon? And please don't tell me that semi assault weapons aren't military grade weapons. With the right type of ammunition and high capacity magazines, the type of damage that can be done is exactly like that of a military weapon. Just ask an ER doctor and he will 'splain it to you.

I'm not very hopeful, but at least some people are starting to take this growing problem more seriously. I guess that's a start.

 

[Half-Life]

Although brief, the article made some good points.

We also need to, as a society, be more proactive. Most mass public shooters are suicidal, and their crises are often well known to others before the shooting occurs. The vast majority of mass shooters leak their plans ahead of time. People who see or sense something is wrong, however, may not always say something to someone owing to the absence of clear reporting protocols or fear of overreaction and unduly labeling a person as a potential threat. Proactive violence prevention starts with schools, colleges, churches and employers initiating conversations about mental health and establishing systems for identifying individuals in crisis, reporting concerns and reaching out — not with punitive measures but with resources and long-term intervention. Everyone should be trained to recognize the signs of a crisis.

I think the above is very important. When I was growing up, we never heard of mass shootings, as they were extremely rare, but communities were much more connected back then. Neighbors knew each other. Parents looked out for each other's kids and corrected them when they acted out without being scorned. Familes were closer and it was unusual for families to live far apart, which allowed family members to have more support when an individual was having a personal crisis. If a parent was a problem, a grandparent, or an aunt or uncle was often available to help to give the child some guidance and emotional support.

While mental health services were never that great, funds for them has been cut back greatly since the 80s. So, there are fewer resources to help someone who is going through a personal crisis. A lot of these shooters are loners. Their only support system in on social media. If the social media they frequent consists mostly of angry, disconnected young men who dwell on hatred, and violence, it's bound to have a negative impact on other young men who are having problems. I mention young men because they are the ones who commit most of these shootings, although there are exceptions. At least two shooters that I remember were veterans of wars, and probably suffered from PTSD. The first one I recall was the shooter in the tower in Texas back in the 70s. I forgot his name, but remembered that he was a Viet Nam veteran.

I think the age of gun ownership should be at least 21. While there isn't enough support to ban military grade weapons, I think it's outrageous that they are legal. Who in their right mind needs such a weapon? And please don't tell me that semi assault weapons aren't military grade weapons. With the right type of ammunition and high capacity magazines, the type of damage that can be done is exactly like that of a military weapon. Just ask an ER doctor and he will 'splain it to you.

I'm not very hopeful, but at least some people are starting to take this growing problem more seriously. I guess that's a start.

People who want to have those weapons can choose to buy them. Just because you don't want them doesn't mean anyone else wouldn't want them. You can make the same argument about anything you don't like:

"Who in their right mind would need to play video games?" Maybe not you, but others choose to play them.

"Who in their right mind would need to buy the whole blu-ray box set of Bonanza?" Maybe not you, but others choose to buy it.

 

[Patooka]

People who want to have those weapons can choose to buy them. Just because you don't want them doesn't mean anyone else wouldn't want them. You can make the same argument about anything you don't like:

"Who in their right mind would need to play video games?" Maybe not you, but others choose to play them.

"Who in their right mind would need to buy the whole blu-ray box set of Bonanza?" Maybe not you, but others choose to buy it.

Excellent. I'm off to buy some sarin gas. Buy your logic that should be completely fine.

 

[Tigers!]

People who want to have those weapons can choose to buy them. Just because you don't want them doesn't mean anyone else wouldn't want them. You can make the same argument about anything you don't like:

"Who in their right mind would need to play video games?" Maybe not you, but others choose to play them.

"Who in their right mind would need to buy the whole blu-ray box set of Bonanza?" Maybe not you, but others choose to buy it.

Excellent. I'm off to buy some sarin gas. Buy your logic that should be completely fine.

Get me some while you are there.

 

[Jarhyn]

Although brief, the article made some good points.

We also need to, as a society, be more proactive. Most mass public shooters are suicidal, and their crises are often well known to others before the shooting occurs. The vast majority of mass shooters leak their plans ahead of time. People who see or sense something is wrong, however, may not always say something to someone owing to the absence of clear reporting protocols or fear of overreaction and unduly labeling a person as a potential threat. Proactive violence prevention starts with schools, colleges, churches and employers initiating conversations about mental health and establishing systems for identifying individuals in crisis, reporting concerns and reaching out — not with punitive measures but with resources and long-term intervention. Everyone should be trained to recognize the signs of a crisis.

I think the above is very important. When I was growing up, we never heard of mass shootings, as they were extremely rare, but communities were much more connected back then. Neighbors knew each other. Parents looked out for each other's kids and corrected them when they acted out without being scorned. Familes were closer and it was unusual for families to live far apart, which allowed family members to have more support when an individual was having a personal crisis. If a parent was a problem, a grandparent, or an aunt or uncle was often available to help to give the child some guidance and emotional support.

While mental health services were never that great, funds for them has been cut back greatly since the 80s. So, there are fewer resources to help someone who is going through a personal crisis. A lot of these shooters are loners. Their only support system in on social media. If the social media they frequent consists mostly of angry, disconnected young men who dwell on hatred, and violence, it's bound to have a negative impact on other young men who are having problems. I mention young men because they are the ones who commit most of these shootings, although there are exceptions. At least two shooters that I remember were veterans of wars, and probably suffered from PTSD. The first one I recall was the shooter in the tower in Texas back in the 70s. I forgot his name, but remembered that he was a Viet Nam veteran.

I think the age of gun ownership should be at least 21. While there isn't enough support to ban military grade weapons, I think it's outrageous that they are legal. Who in their right mind needs such a weapon? And please don't tell me that semi assault weapons aren't military grade weapons. With the right type of ammunition and high capacity magazines, the type of damage that can be done is exactly like that of a military weapon. Just ask an ER doctor and he will 'splain it to you.

I'm not very hopeful, but at least some people are starting to take this growing problem more seriously. I guess that's a start.

People who want to have those weapons can choose to buy them. Just because you don't want them doesn't mean anyone else wouldn't want them. You can make the same argument about anything you don't like:

"Who in their right mind would need to play video games?" Maybe not you, but others choose to play them.

"Who in their right mind would need to buy the whole blu-ray box set of Bonanza?" Maybe not you, but others choose to buy it.

More, video games do not as their exclusive function operate in such a way as to effectively and unilaterally end lives at range.

The utility function of a gun is it's unilateral lethality at range. All other uses are just in pointing that utility function at something that you don't mind breaking or is difficult to break, generally in a way that makes you more effective at applying the utility function.

Video games are the exact inverse: they have literally no utility function.

There are utility functions which we restrict on the basis of a credible need. "Unilaterally ending life at range with great effectiveness" is such a utility function.

 

[ZiprHead]

People who want to have those weapons can choose to buy them. Just because you don't want them doesn't mean anyone else wouldn't want them. You can make the same argument about anything you don't like:

"Who in their right mind would need to play video games?" Maybe not you, but others choose to play them.

"Who in their right mind would need to buy the whole blu-ray box set of Bonanza?" Maybe not you, but others choose to buy it.

Excellent. I'm off to buy some sarin gas. Buy your logic that should be completely fine.

Get me some while you are there.

Can you pick me up some Zaire-Ebola virus for me while you're there? I'm having a crazy-busy day.

 

[Patooka]

Get me some while you are there.

Can you pick me up some Zaire-Ebola virus for me while you're there? I'm having a crazy-busy day.

How many times do I have to tell you people? The shopping list is on the fridge. If you lot only left a note, I could have bought some when I was grabbing some MANPADS for next week's dart game.

Always leave a note.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Mas shooters? I can only remember the Menendez brothers.

 

[southernhybrid]

"Who in their right mind would need to buy the whole blu-ray box set of Bonanza?" Maybe not you, but others choose to buy it.

You really are a hoot. I never knew that a boxed set of Bonanza episodes could be used as a lethal weapon. How do you load it? What type of ammunition does it take? Can you use high capacity cartridges with it? Who knew that a box of Bonanza episodes was as lethal as a semi automatic gun!

Most mass shooters have used semi automatic weapons because they can kill a lot of people very quickly. What other function do they have?

 

[Jarhyn]

"Who in their right mind would need to buy the whole blu-ray box set of Bonanza?" Maybe not you, but others choose to buy it.

You really are a hoot. I never knew that a boxed set of Bonanza episodes could be used as a lethal weapon. How do you load it? What type of ammunition does it take? Can you use high capacity cartridges with it? Who knew that a box of Bonanza episodes was as lethal as a semi automatic gun!

Most mass shooters have used semi automatic weapons because they can kill a lot of people very quickly. What other function do they have?

I never knew that ifnsomeoneone happened to be on the wrong side of the Blu-ray player when someone watched it, that they would be killed!

Then again, thinking about it if I was I was trapped, forced to watch all of Bonanza, I might just kill myself. But that isn't a guarantee, so it's still a fair bit less lethal than a firearm.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

People who want to have those weapons can choose to buy them. Just because you don't want them doesn't mean anyone else wouldn't want them. You can make the same argument about anything you don't like:

"Who in their right mind would need to play video games?" Maybe not you, but others choose to play them.

"Who in their right mind would need to buy the whole blu-ray box set of Bonanza?" Maybe not you, but others choose to buy it.

Excellent. I'm off to buy some sarin gas. Buy your logic that should be completely fine.

Get me some while you are there.

Toss in a couple mortars, a grenade launcher and an M60 for me. Oh, and a couple hand grenades too, and two dozen claymores.

 

[ZiprHead]

Mas shooters anyone?

 

[Playball40]

Although brief, the article made some good points.

We also need to, as a society, be more proactive. Most mass public shooters are suicidal, and their crises are often well known to others before the shooting occurs. The vast majority of mass shooters leak their plans ahead of time. People who see or sense something is wrong, however, may not always say something to someone owing to the absence of clear reporting protocols or fear of overreaction and unduly labeling a person as a potential threat. Proactive violence prevention starts with schools, colleges, churches and employers initiating conversations about mental health and establishing systems for identifying individuals in crisis, reporting concerns and reaching out — not with punitive measures but with resources and long-term intervention. Everyone should be trained to recognize the signs of a crisis.

I think the above is very important. When I was growing up, we never heard of mass shootings, as they were extremely rare, but communities were much more connected back then. Neighbors knew each other. Parents looked out for each other's kids and corrected them when they acted out without being scorned. Familes were closer and it was unusual for families to live far apart, which allowed family members to have more support when an individual was having a personal crisis. If a parent was a problem, a grandparent, or an aunt or uncle was often available to help to give the child some guidance and emotional support.

While mental health services were never that great, funds for them has been cut back greatly since the 80s. So, there are fewer resources to help someone who is going through a personal crisis. A lot of these shooters are loners. Their only support system in on social media. If the social media they frequent consists mostly of angry, disconnected young men who dwell on hatred, and violence, it's bound to have a negative impact on other young men who are having problems. I mention young men because they are the ones who commit most of these shootings, although there are exceptions. At least two shooters that I remember were veterans of wars, and probably suffered from PTSD. The first one I recall was the shooter in the tower in Texas back in the 70s. I forgot his name, but remembered that he was a Viet Nam veteran.

I think the age of gun ownership should be at least 21. While there isn't enough support to ban military grade weapons, I think it's outrageous that they are legal. Who in their right mind needs such a weapon? And please don't tell me that semi assault weapons aren't military grade weapons. With the right type of ammunition and high capacity magazines, the type of damage that can be done is exactly like that of a military weapon. Just ask an ER doctor and he will 'splain it to you.

I'm not very hopeful, but at least some people are starting to take this growing problem more seriously. I guess that's a start.

The texas tower shooter actually had a brain tumor. He knew he was suffering delusions/compulsions and begged for help but they did not have the medical technology then to actually diagnose him. He begged that they autopsy his brain and they did - allowed for pushes forward in neuroscience.

 

[Playball40]

Get me some while you are there.

Toss in a couple mortars, a grenade launcher and an M60 for me. Oh, and a couple hand grenades too, and two dozen claymores.

Dear Santa,

I would very much like a tank to drive down 275 to work. I've been very good this year.

Thank you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think the above is very important. When I was growing up, we never heard of mass shootings, as they were extremely rare, but communities were much more connected back then. Neighbors knew each other. Parents looked out for each other's kids and corrected them when they acted out without being scorned. Familes were closer and it was unusual for families to live far apart, which allowed family members to have more support when an individual was having a personal crisis. If a parent was a problem, a grandparent, or an aunt or uncle was often available to help to give the child some guidance and emotional support.

I think the news media plays a major role. We didn't used to hear about distant things nearly as much.

While mental health services were never that great, funds for them has been cut back greatly since the 80s. So, there are fewer resources to help someone who is going through a personal crisis. A lot of these shooters are loners. Their only support system in on social media. If the social media they frequent consists mostly of angry, disconnected young men who dwell on hatred, and violence, it's bound to have a negative impact on other young men who are having problems. I mention young men because they are the ones who commit most of these shootings, although there are exceptions. At least two shooters that I remember were veterans of wars, and probably suffered from PTSD. The first one I recall was the shooter in the tower in Texas back in the 70s. I forgot his name, but remembered that he was a Viet Nam veteran.

I'll definitely agree on the loners / social media aspect.

I think the age of gun ownership should be at least 21. While there isn't enough support to ban military grade weapons, I think it's outrageous that they are legal. Who in their right mind needs such a weapon? And please don't tell me that semi assault weapons aren't military grade weapons. With the right type of ammunition and high capacity magazines, the type of damage that can be done is exactly like that of a military weapon. Just ask an ER doctor and he will 'splain it to you.

I'm not very hopeful, but at least some people are starting to take this growing problem more seriously. I guess that's a start.

I wouldn't be opposed to an age 21 requirement.

However, there are some big differences between military weapons and civilian: Military weapons normally have select fire options that civilian weapons do not and they have better heat dissipation to handle sustained fire. "Assault weapons" are merely light hunting rifles that are built to look military.