PyramidHead
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Normal thing to say, totally normal and healthy belief system
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Normal thing to say, totally normal and healthy belief system
Lion IRC
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He tastes divine.
Lion IRC
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Yes.
I'm surprised, so far into this age of quantum mechanics, that there are folks who struggle with the notion of transubstantiation.
Not really. But it does surprise me that people in this day and age still believe that ritual cannibalism, the act of eating the flesh of another human, albeit one that allegedly possessed the ability to transform from a rotting corpse to a flying astronaut zombie, will somehow impart them with superpowers of their own.
abaddon
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Is it a mystery or quantum mechanics? Or aren't you just pretending there's anything scientific or even comprehensible about "the notion"?
Lion IRC
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The legacy of the Eucharist is a living gift to us.
Jesus could have left stone tablets with rune symbols, supernatural relics, archeological monuments, Holy Grails, YouTubes, blog posts, mp4 smart phone video evidence of His time on earth. But would have all been debunked as dime-a-dozen fakes/forgeries. (Think how the 2019 post-modern world would receive such mundane attempts at authenticity.)
But Jesus instead gave us an enduring living connection with His real presence - which is as real as you want it to be.
If you want to regard the Eucharist as 'symbolic' that's fine. Have a superficial 'symbolic' experience with token Jesus.
Or if you're passionately in need of Him being there in the room then the words..."this is my body" will literally be true.
Either way, the supernatural deliberateness of the Passover/Last Supper has endured much to the surprise of those who mock and misunderstand.
Jesus could have left stone tablets with rune symbols, supernatural relics, archeological monuments, Holy Grails, YouTubes, blog posts, mp4 smart phone video evidence of His time on earth. But would have all been debunked as dime-a-dozen fakes/forgeries. (Think how the 2019 post-modern world would receive such mundane attempts at authenticity.)
But Jesus instead gave us an enduring living connection with His real presence - which is as real as you want it to be.
If you want to regard the Eucharist as 'symbolic' that's fine. Have a superficial 'symbolic' experience with token Jesus.
Or if you're passionately in need of Him being there in the room then the words..."this is my body" will literally be true.
Either way, the supernatural deliberateness of the Passover/Last Supper has endured much to the surprise of those who mock and misunderstand.
southernhybrid
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Sorry to tell you Lion, but the flesh and blood that I ate in church when I was a Christian youth, tasted exactly like bread and grape juice. The Baptists didn't even let us have some wine, just grape juice. Welch's unsweetened grape juice at that. My husband was raised Catholic and he didn't even get a taste of that wine. The greedy priest drank all of it and just offered a wafer to the rest of the congregation. How can we no make fun of this silly ancient ritual? Good job derailing the thread, Christian friends. 
T.G.G. Moogly
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Your ancestors bequeathed a much greater gift to you and at enormous cost, namely, that you are here. You would do well to not squander that gift on infantile, religious fantasies.
Lion IRC
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Sorry I didn't read the Op - I thought this was a thread about Holy Communion.
Let's get back to the Atheism Rising topic.
What else is rising?
Mental illness. Existential angst. Opioid addiction. Youth suicide. Nihilistic hedonism.
How about the level of civility in public discourse?
PyramidHead
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The fact that the world sucks now is a cause of people abandoning belief in God, not an effect of it. Both the lack of belief and the presence of mental illness have a common root, which is a growing awareness that we're fucked and nobody is going to save us.
hurtinbuckaroo
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Who's leading the decline of that? Who are his biggest supporters? Who thinks he's actually sent by god?
skepticalbip
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They would be considered fakes/forgeries because that is the kind of things fakes and forgers have always offered as proof. A godly being could easily leave a godly symbol of his having been here. For instance, he could have left an indestructible dome larger than the great pyramid made of material not found anywhere else in the universe that was harder than diamond and had a melting point higher than the temperature of a star's core. His message could be left inscribed over the surface and a niche could produce wine, loaves, and fish to feed the hungry eternally.
You know, symbols only a god could leave us, not something like the relics hawked to the ignorant during the middle ages who adored by them then and still do. I've heard it said that there were enough 'pieces of the original cross' sold to build a fair sized village.
I do find it really weird that Christians still indulge in cannibalism. Especially since they find cannibalism repulsive when practiced by other cultures.
Worldtraveller
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Also:
“The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life.” - Shaw
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
With the exception of civility in public discourse none of those things are any higher today than they've ever been in any society in human history. We just know about it now because our communication is better. You may as well say there are more exoplanets now than at any time in human history. Big yawn.
Maybe religious superstition is declining so people aren't "sanely" blaming succubi and demons.
What aspect of performing ritual cannibalism in the hopes it will earn you brownie points with a supernatural creature you have never met or seen are people misunderstanding? How should people who believe that eating a wafer in a church is actually an act of eating a 2,000 year old zombie's flesh be treated, if not with mockery?
Keith&Co.
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Lich.
Zombies get up at someone else's bidding, liches rise on their own power.
Other than that, spot-on...
I mean, saying 'gesundheit' endures, even though it provides nothing in the way of palliative care, diagnostic assistance, or cleaning snot off the computer screen
You lump atheism in with mental illness, addiction, suicide and hedonism. And in the same breath you wonder why people aren't always civil to people like you. If this is what ritual cannibalism does to the human brain I want no part of it. No thank you, I am eating vegetarian tonight.
Cheerful Charlie
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https://www.amazon.com/Furta-Sacra-Thefts-Relics-Central/dp/0691008620
Furta Sacra: Thefts of Relics in the Central Middle Ages Reprint, Subsequent Edition
by Patrick J. Geary
I have this book. It is a rollicking good read. In medieval churches, the pilgrim tourism trade was big money. And the pilgrims wanted relics. There was a roaring big trade in relics to supply the demand. Now how to explain how these churches came by such relics. There were lots of silly tall tales, about how some relic of some saint, sat neglected in some church. And how the saint appeared to some monk and complained about the neglect and begged to be rescued. Said crafty monk planned his sacred theft, some times over years, and with help from neglected sad saint, successfully pulled of the heist and set up a magnificent display " as seen before you dear pilgrims, neglected no longer!"
All with attendant miracles, visions, visitations et al. Such tales were common, expected, and big box office. The wilder and more imaginative the tale the better. This was expected and these monks often put on a good show.
This book is well researched and academic with lots of foot notes and end notes, but still is easy to read and funny as hell.
Sure, nobody would lie about miracles, religious visions and pious fraud is rare when debating such issues. I just wonder how many of these silly relics are still on display in various old churches across Europe.
Learner
Veteran Member
Thats sort of the period where atheists mix-up the imagination of unicorns with spikes on their heads and fire breathing dragons which is not in the bible.
(Good to see you again Lion BTW.)
(Good to see you again Lion BTW.)
Are you sure about that?
— The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew, Chapter 18
Not officially a part of the Bible, but dated to the first century nevertheless.