EAC: We're doing a good job!

[Keith&Co.]

Thats sort of the period where atheists mix-up the imagination of unicorns with spikes on their heads and fire breathing dragons which is not in the bible.

yes, it's atheists trying to connect the biblical creatures like Behemoth to mythical dragons and fossil dinosaurs. Not creationists trying to claim their myths are supported, just labeled differently in the museums....

 

[skepticalbip]

The King James Bible (which most Christians accept as 'the word of god') mentions unicorns in several of its books. It also mentions dragons in several of its books.

 

[Learner]

Thats sort of the period where atheists mix-up the imagination of unicorns with spikes on their heads and fire breathing dragons which is not in the bible.

Are you sure about that?

And, lo, suddenly there came forth from the cave many dragons; and

when the children saw them, they cried out in great terror. Then Jesus

went down from the bosom of His mother, and stood on His feet before

the dragons; and they adored Jesus, and thereafter retired.

— The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew, Chapter 18

Not officially a part of the Bible, but dated to the first century nevertheless.

Fire-breathing fairy tale dragons?

Regarding unicorns I mean Horses with spikes on their heads.

Dragons are mentioned all over the ancient world not just the bible.

 

[lpetrich]

Unicorn horns are narwhal tusks. A narwhal looks much more like a big dolphin than a horse, but a narwhal has only one tusk, and it sticks out forward.

 

[skepticalbip]

Are you sure about that?



— The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew, Chapter 18

Not officially a part of the Bible, but dated to the first century nevertheless.

Fire-breathing fairy tale dragons?

Yes indeed...

Job 41… Describing the leviathan

12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
its strength and its graceful form.
13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
ringed about with fearsome teeth?
15 Its back has[c] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Flames stream from its mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from its nostrils
as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from its mouth.
22 Strength resides in its neck;
dismay goes before it.
23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 Its chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before its thrashing.

ETA:
Again, I would encourage you to actually read your Bible so atheists wouldn't have to correct you on what you believe is in it. I don't understand why you claiming to be a Christian and being continually corrected by atheists doesn't embarrass you enough that you would read it.

 

[Learner]

Thank you for that... great find. That one escaped me!!!???

Why??

 

[Politesse]

I was taught that dragons were legit animals when I was forced to go to Jesus Camp for two years as a kid. Apparently they were dinosaurs who escaped the Flood, but not the mighty sword of St. George. My dad (who was a geologist) flipped his lid when I relayed the paleontology section of the curriculum. Didn't have to go to Jesus Camp again.

 

[Learner]

Again, I would encourage you to actually read your Bible so atheists wouldn't have to correct you on what you believe is in it.

No need to encourage me, but cheers, Ill get there. How many did you (plural) correct me in all the posts I posted?

EDIT: No actually its fine, its a debate and a discussion ... it is always best to be corrected and learn, no matter who from! (and have a little humility for once as a reminder ... It was meant to be ... in order to be a better Christian)

 

[Rhea]

What else is rising?
Mental illness. Existential angst. Opioid addiction. Youth suicide. Nihilistic hedonism.
How about the level of civility in public discourse?

Yeah! Why can’t we get back to the good old days of when we killed or abandoned those with mental illness, or maybe the civil discourse of the Inquisition or the KKK.

THOSE were the good old days!

 

[Rhea]

Thank you for that... great find. That one escaped me!!!???

Why??

Good question. Why? Why, as a religionist, when you read your bible did you not notice how ridiculous that passage was and remember it?
Whhy did you NOT KNOW that was in your sacred book of truths?

It’s a really good question. How could that escape any christian? You seriously didn’t notice it when you read your bible?

 

[skepticalbip]

Again, I would encourage you to actually read your Bible so atheists wouldn't have to correct you on what you believe is in it.

No need to encourage me, but cheers, Ill get there. How many did you (plural) correct me in all the posts I posted?

I dunno. How many posts have you made in which you made definitive statements as to what is and isn't in the Bible?

EDIT: No actually its fine, its a debate and a discussion ... it is always best to be corrected and learn, no matter who from! (and have a little humility for once as a reminder ... It was meant to be ... in order to be a better Christian)

There isn't anything wrong with learning when corrected but you don't seem to do that unless a direct Biblical quotation is shown to you. Also, since you can't state everything you believe, a surer method of learning would be to go directly to the source, read it, and educate yourself from that.

Apparently, your knowledge of the real world and reason led you to believe that a "fire-breathing fairy tale dragon" couldn't possibly exist so you assumed that one couldn't be in the Bible. Now that you know that one is in the Bible, do you now reject your knowledge of the real world and reason to accept that there were/are such beasties? Or do you retain your reason and assume that the Bible says much that can't be true?

 

[Learner]

Thank you for that... great find. That one escaped me!!!???

Why??

Good question. Why? Why, as a religionist, when you read your bible did you not notice how ridiculous that passage was and remember it?
Whhy did you NOT KNOW that was in your sacred book of truths?

It’s a really good question. How could that escape any christian? You seriously didn’t notice it when you read your bible?

Its one of those things, although if I may say, sounding a tad arrogant... It's not a usual thing but bound to happen, hold on to it! Importantly.. I hope it helps ... should other Christians happen to read this... so they won't make that mistake. Christian researchers who study thorougly on the whole, are progressing quite well.

And.. I certainly wouldn't be a preacher soon, (if that was my chosen path).

 

[Learner]

I dunno. How many posts have you made in which you made definitive statements as to what is and isn't in the Bible?

EDIT: No actually its fine, its a debate and a discussion ... it is always best to be corrected and learn, no matter who from! (and have a little humility for once as a reminder ... It was meant to be ... in order to be a better Christian)

There isn't anything wrong with learning when corrected but you don't seem to do that unless a direct Biblical quotation is shown to you. Also, since you can't state everything you believe, a surer method of learning would be to go directly to the source, read it, and educate yourself from that.

Apparently, your knowledge of the real world and reason led you to believe that a "fire-breathing fairy tale dragon" couldn't possibly exist so you assumed that one couldn't be in the Bible. Now that you know that one is in the Bible, do you now reject your knowledge of the real world and reason to accept that there were/are such beasties? Or do you retain your reason and assume that the Bible says much that can't be true?

Ahh ok if you must.. Are you the one that thought only 144 thousand got into heaven before you were enlightened to the context from an amateur?

 

[Learner]

I better sleep on it ... Im sounding something other, than anything close to having "humility" what little there is.

(Always tired and ratty)

 

[skepticalbip]

I dunno. How many posts have you made in which you made definitive statements as to what is and isn't in the Bible?

EDIT: No actually its fine, its a debate and a discussion ... it is always best to be corrected and learn, no matter who from! (and have a little humility for once as a reminder ... It was meant to be ... in order to be a better Christian)

There isn't anything wrong with learning when corrected but you don't seem to do that unless a direct Biblical quotation is shown to you. Also, since you can't state everything you believe, a surer method of learning would be to go directly to the source, read it, and educate yourself from that.

Apparently, your knowledge of the real world and reason led you to believe that a "fire-breathing fairy tale dragon" couldn't possibly exist so you assumed that one couldn't be in the Bible. Now that you know that one is in the Bible, do you now reject your knowledge of the real world and reason to accept that there were/are such beasties? Or do you retain your reason and assume that the Bible says much that can't be true?

Ahh ok if you must.. Are you the one that thought only 144 thousand got into heaven before you were enlightened to the context from an amateur?

Typical.... rather than an honest answer, change the subject.

I'll try again. Do abandon your knowledge of the world and reason to now believe that there are/were "fire-breathing fairy tale dragons" or do you retain your reason and believe that there are claims in the Bible that can't possibly be true?

 

[Learner]

Rather than respond to your post above ( I think I've been a little too arrogant for one day)

Let me respond later to your post with a fresh and happy tone.

Good night (or morning) Skeps et al.

 

[Lion IRC]

Let's get back to the Atheism Rising topic.

What else is rising?
Mental illness. Existential angst. Opioid addiction. Youth suicide. Nihilistic hedonism.
How about the level of civility in public discourse?

The fact that the world sucks now is a cause of people abandoning belief in God, not an effect of it. Both the lack of belief and the presence of mental illness have a common root, which is a growing awareness that we're fucked and nobody is going to save us.

Also:

“The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life.” - Shaw

That would be a really good quote if 'happiness' was some trivial, mundane, ho-hum,
take it or leave it human experience.

But considering the fact that we are in a forum surrounded by atheists whose favourite anti-God counter apologetic is probably related to theodicy...

Happiness is NOT overrated.

 

[Atheos]

<snip>

Let's get back to the Atheism Rising topic.

What else is rising?
Mental illness. Existential angst. Opioid addiction. Youth suicide. Nihilistic hedonism.
How about the level of civility in public discourse?

It is always tempting to equate things like this with whatever one's hobby horse happens to be. It looks like you are implying that as society gets more secular these are the result.

Of these I guess it could be argued that nihilistic hedonism probably has a direct correlation. What of it? To me this smacks of "I don't approve of people thinking in these patterns so I'm going to look down my nose at them and speak of them as sub-quality people." I've done plenty of that sort of thing in my time, but strangely I've grown more tolerant of people who don't think exactly like I do over the years. One of the things that helped me become more tolerant was letting go of the belief that I was right because I was backed by some imaginary god.

Of the rest there is no direct correlation. The American Psychological Association has noted a significant increase in mental health issues in young adults in America over the last decade but no corresponding increase in older adults (26 or older). Rather than immediately bang the "God" drum they actually went to the rigor of doing research into other aspects of the target group's behavior patterns. The most likely contributing factors to these mental illness issues is (1) lack of sleep and (2) dependence on digital devices for a much more significant portion of their social interaction. Their lack of sleep is directly correlated to excessive use of these digital devices late at night.

They also fully admit that more study needs to be done, but they are fairly certain that putting away the digital devices at least one hour before bedtime would have a significant impact on the amount of sleep these people get and a corresponding improvement in their mental function. They also felt that praying during that hour would really just fix them right up.

Seriously, the over-dependence on digital devices for virtual chat rooms and social media rather than actual human contact is believed to be a major contributing factor to impaired social function in the brain. The older adults tend to have established a social network that provides for this basic human need.

Existential angst is just one specific variety of mental illness added to pad this doomsday proclamation. Even if it were entirely separate, believing in a fairy tale in order to give one's life meaning is a poor substitute for finding purpose in ones own desires and motivations. My opinion of course. Religion doesn't confer purpose in life. Religion gives us such things as "Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man" (Ecclesiastes 12:13). That's vanity and vexation of spirit if ever I heard it.

Finally there's the level of civility in public discourse. If it could be demonstrated that god-believers exhibit civility in public discourse and skeptics do not I'd be willing to buy-in to the idea that somehow belief in an invisible superdaddy had an effect on this. But I've seen a profound lack of civility from both sides of that equation with such regularity that it appears the only common ground here is the level of anonymity available. Internet bullying wouldn't be a thing if there was no Internet. But there is and it ain't going away.

 

[PyramidHead]

Also:

“The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life.” - Shaw

That would be a really good quote if 'happiness' was some trivial, mundane, ho-hum,
take it or leave it human experience.

But considering the fact that we are in a forum surrounded by atheists whose favourite anti-God counter apologetic is probably related to theodicy...

Happiness is NOT overrated.

Does that mean we should believe false things just because we're happier when we do

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Also:

“The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life.” - Shaw

That would be a really good quote if 'happiness' was some trivial, mundane, ho-hum,
take it or leave it human experience.

But considering the fact that we are in a forum surrounded by atheists whose favourite anti-God counter apologetic is probably related to theodicy...

Happiness is NOT overrated.

I'm happier than at any time in my life with the possible exception of very early childhood. That happiness relates directly to living long enough and learning enough to overcome superstitious instincts such as religion. That people are living longer is very bad for religion. Religion needs immature people who are ignorant and afraid.