EAC: We're doing a good job!

[skepticalbip]

Yes, and I think this is why atheists invented the (religious) idea that there's no God(s).
It's a palliative.
It's the very thing they accuse theists of doing - inventing a comforting belief.

You really have absolutely no understanding of atheism. Your projection is rather silly.

Do you have that fear of being judged unworthy so are overcompensating?

 

[abaddon]

Atheists don't fear death.

Some do some don't.

They are too busy living like there's no tomorrow.

By "living like there's no tomorrow" you probably mean "living like there isn't going to be hell to pay". Other persons who are more connected to reality would worry if hedonism would mean not contributing to much-needed social changes. But on the whole, so long as it doesn't mean abandoning the significance of this life but living it up with all due respect to others (including nonhuman life also), I think it's the best possible ideal. And a far better answer to existential angst about one's mortality than what Christianity offers.

 

[abaddon]

There is no reason for an atheist to have a fear of death... maybe dread of painful dying or regret of no longer experiencing life. For an atheist, death would just be a return to oblivion, the same as before birth.

The religious have been given a sound reason to be terrified of death. There is the fear that they will be judged unfit to be admitted to heaven so will suffer eternal torment in hell.

Important point. It's immortality that makes death fearsome, not mortality.

Yet some people who say they realize they're mortal still fear death. Why? Because in the absence of clear thinking about it (and doubting language better) they're imagining a terribly long time during which they're dead. "I'll be dead forever and ever", they say. It's important for such persons to think this through better. It's one of millions of instances of how language fucks us up: "I'll be dead forever". Nope, there will be no "I" to "be" a non-state we call "death".

 

[Lion IRC]

Yes, and I think this is why atheists invented the (religious) idea that there's no God(s).
It's a palliative.
It's the very thing they accuse theists of doing - inventing a comforting belief.

You really have absolutely no understanding of atheism.

Well if that's true you know who to blame.
Because everything I learned about atheism came from atheists themselves.
But I grant you that not all atheists agree on what atheism is.
Can you believe in the afterlife as an atheist?

Your projection is rather silly.

I'm gonna need some time to think of a comeback zinger worthy of this devastating critique.

Do you have that fear of being judged unworthy so are overcompensating?

I don't need to wait for judgment of that. I already know it.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

 

[skepticalbip]

Do you have that fear of being judged unworthy so are overcompensating?

I don't need to wait for judgment of that. I already know it.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

That is a rather odd belief. Your god created you a sinful being and for that sinfulness will condemn you to eternal torment in hell.

 

[Keith&Co.]

It's the very thing they accuse theists of doing - inventing a comforting belief.

You really have absolutely no understanding of atheism. Your projection is rather silly.

But, wait. Some theists say they reject atheism, and so should we, exactly because it iffers no comfort. No hope, either of protection or rescue by a loving skybeast, or an afterlife sponsored by said skybeast, welcomed amongst others who went before...
So, which is it? Comforting nihilism or scary defiance?
Seems like everything else the apologists come up with, made-up-shit to fit the argument at hand.

To me, we don't have to actually craft a particular belief in order to just say, 'THAT belief is unconvincing, once you think about it.' We just withhold belief on nothing more than your say-so.


The house is on fire!
Eh, i don't smell smoke, won't panic yet.

Blacks are all lazy!
Eh. My wife works longer hours than i do.

We're out of ketchup!
Uh, did you look behind the orange juice?

 

[Rhea]

Yes, and I think this is why atheists invented the (religious) idea that there's no God(s).

Now that's an interesting thing to think about. "Atheists invented the idea that there is no god."
I'm thinking about that.
It doesn't seem coherent.
It certainly doesn't seem consistent with Christian evangelism, which says that the word of god must be brought to people so they will have it.

Interesting for it's incomprehensibility.

It's a palliative.
It's the very thing they accuse theists of doing - inventing a comforting belief.

Or, maybe the comfort is in not having invented the idea of anything bad after death? Sbip has a good point about why Christians might fear death. Because they created the idea of hell, which makes the post life something to be feared.

In a more intellectual look, evolution has caused us to fear dying, but not to fear death, really. The species benefits when those who get triggered by dangerous things reproduce. And the reproduction of those who fear dangerous things will be boosted, because they'll tend to avoid dangerous things and therefore live. But once they get to the certainty of death, and the increase in cerebral function allows us to know that better than other animals, then for many, the fear goes away and is replaced with either regret or relief.

 

[abaddon]

Yes, and I think this is why atheists invented the (religious) idea that there's no God(s).

Now that's an interesting thing to think about. "Atheists invented the idea that there is no god."
I'm thinking about that.
It doesn't seem coherent.
It certainly doesn't seem consistent with Christian evangelism, which says that the word of god must be brought to people so they will have it.

Interesting for it's incomprehensibility.

We should invent the idea that there is no spirozip. Because next year someone's going to invent the idea of the spirozip and I don't like it already and so we should get a jump on that by inventing anti-spirozipism.

 

[Rhea]

Well if that's true you know who to blame.
Because everything I learned about atheism came from atheists themselves.

Not so fast, there, Lion.
That IMPLIES that you actually listen and hear what the atheists are saying, and there is abundant evidence that you do no such thing. No matter what an atheist says, you still use your own talking points, and they have not matured lo, these many years conversing with us.


So yes, we know who to blame, but it is not the atheists. We have watched what you do with the information given to you, and it's not the pitch that is bad, it's the catch.

 

[Lion IRC]

Do you have that fear of being judged unworthy so are overcompensating?

I don't need to wait for judgment of that. I already know it.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

That is a rather odd belief. Your god created you a sinful being and for that sinfulness will condemn you to eternal torment in hell.

a) God didn't create Adam and Eve sinful. They made the free choice.
b) God doesn't prevent sinners from regretting their sinful choices. He is willing to forgive.

 

[Lion IRC]

Well if that's true you know who to blame.
Because everything I learned about atheism came from atheists themselves.

Not so fast, there, Lion.
That IMPLIES that you actually listen and hear what the atheists are saying, and there is abundant evidence that you do no such thing. No matter what an atheist says, you still use your own talking points, and they have not matured lo, these many years conversing with us.


So yes, we know who to blame, but it is not the atheists. We have watched what you do with the information given to you, and it's not the pitch that is bad, it's the catch.

Catch this.

https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheist_factions#Atheist_infighting_and_differences_in_ideology

 

[Rhea]

What does it say?

 

[bilby]

Okay. Which one does the bible mean.

god noun
\ ˈgäd also ˈgȯd \
Definition of god (Entry 1 of 2)
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: such as
a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind

2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship
specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
Greek gods of love and war
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
had photos of baseball's gods pinned to his bedroom wall
4 : a powerful ruler
Hollywood gods that control our movies' fates

FIFY

You can determine in your list above by the one that contains the word Christian in it. No. 1 (a+b) is the widely accepted. Whereas - oddly enough, the Nos 2, 3 and 4 is often used by some atheist's in their arguments.

(When the issue of which definition arises, I may perhaps link this post with the list you kindly provided, just to move future discussions forward a little.)

"Christian Science" is a specific sub-sect of Christianity; It's a two-word noun phrase, that cannot rationally be treated as sharing meaning with it's components. In the same way, a "dog house" isn't a dog; and nor is it a house except in the very broadest sense of the word.

"Christian Science" refers specifically to the teachings of the Church of Christ, Scientist; and to it's various descendants.

It's no more "science" than a dog house is a dog.

Striking out one word from a two word compound noun completely chages the meaning, and so your 'fix' is making the supposedly authoritative source say something that it absolutely does NOT say.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Yes, and I think this is why atheists invented the (religious) idea that there's no God(s).
It's a palliative.

No, it’s the default state. It’s much older than your god, or anyone else’s. No invention required.

 

[Lion IRC]

Funny.
That's exactly what I think in regards to the existence of God.
it's the default state. No invention required.

 

[skepticalbip]

Funny.
That's exactly what I think in regards to the existence of God.
it's the default state. No invention required.

If it was the default state then the same religion would be found around the world, even among the uncontacted, isolated tribes.

 

[Lion IRC]

Atheists aren't the only people who get it wrong.

 

[atrib]

Well if that's true you know who to blame.
Because everything I learned about atheism came from atheists themselves.

That's not true, like most of what you say. You make shit up about atheists all the time - take snide little digs from the sidelines because that's the only game you have. When was the last time you actually engaged in a sincere discussion on these forums? It's quite pathetic.

 

[atrib]

That is a rather odd belief. Your god created you a sinful being and for that sinfulness will condemn you to eternal torment in hell.

a) God didn't create Adam and Eve sinful. They made the free choice.
b) God doesn't prevent sinners from regretting their sinful choices. He is willing to forgive.

What about the rest of humanity? They don't have a choice in the matter - they are born broken. God made us broken but he wants us to be perfect. And he will punish us for eternity if we behave the way he created us to behave. Do you really believe this shit? I don't think so.

And as we have discussed previously, even using your definition of an omniscient god, humans have no free will. Remember that conversation - where we figured out that your god couldn't be anything more than an automaton running a script that it has no power to change? The conversation where you tried to redefine omniscience, and still got your ass kicked so hard you had to run away crying? I bet you do!

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Funny.
That's exactly what I think in regards to the existence of God.
it's the default state. No invention required.

If it was the default state then the same religion would be found around the world, even among the uncontacted, isolated tribes.

It’s amazing how many flavors there are, isn’t it. A default state with hundreds of different values, LOL.