• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

First american ebola case diagnosed

Well that's good news. People here close to Dallas were actually starting to freak out about this second guy. I heard somebody at work today my age say something about the return of Jesus.
More likely to get run over by a bus.

Sabine Grant:
How is such incident, involving the health care worker who examined Mr Duncan in the hospital ER and failed to pass on the very important information revealed by Mr Duncan regarding his country of origin, supposed to justify your previous remark of "Doctors seems to get infected way too often for someone who is well educated and prepared not to get infected" ?
I heard that detail was noted but the Dr failed to read the nursing notes.
 
The test results are in. The sheriff quarantined does not have Ebola. He was sent home.

No one yet has come down with Ebola from the group exposed to Duncan.

I don't like to say "I told you so..."

Who am I kidding? I love saying it. But I do try my best to feel guilty. Honest ;)


The incubation period for the 47 other people is not up yet.

After Oct 19, if no one has broken with the disease, you can say it all you want and I won't mind a bit.

- - - Updated - - -

I posted that in humor and then googled "Texas State Fair Ebola". Turns out you get a lot of hits...

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/big-tex-dallas-larger-than-life-mascot-tries-to-stop-ebola/381134/

View attachment 1256


A doctor friend of mine emailed me this 10 days ago. It's up all over where I work.
 
How is such incident, involving the health care worker who examined Mr Duncan in the hospital ER and failed to pass on the very important information revealed by Mr Duncan regarding his country of origin, supposed to justify your previous remark of "Doctors seems to get infected way too often for someone who is well educated and prepared not to get infected" ?
It does not justify and it is not directly related.
Fact is, number of western doctors or nurses got infected.
And again, those individuals were infected while serving in Liberia! Not while exercising in any medical facility in the US.This time around, make the effort to carefully read this :

Further, it appears you did not pay attention to the factors I clearly detailed which unfortunately contribute to a higher risk of exposure and contamination for health care workers in Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia. Even the most prepared and educated health care workers/professionals run a higher risk of exposure and contamination based on those factors when they serve in those treatment facilities located in all 3 affected nations.
Did you or not pay attention to the factors I had clearly detailed in my initial post? Do you have any counter argumentation to present refuting those factors?

And another fact is, they released a guy with ebola.
That fact is not in question. What is in question is your continuous babbling about "number of western doctors and nurses got infected" despite of my having clearly detailed all the factors involved in facilitating contamination for health care professionals and workers located in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone. Which those factors are not present in the US.

This outbreak is clearly different from previous ones
and I think it's not reasonable anymore to assume that this strain of ebola is not different.
Do you have any clinical data to provide supporting that assumption? Surely, you must have done some homework on the variety of Ebola strains, non? Such as The Ivory Coast ebolavirus (CIEBOV), the Reston ebolavirus,(RESTV) the Sudan ebolavirus (SEBOV), Zaire ebolavirus (ZEBOV).

All the cited strains ,except for the Reston, share in common the vector of non airborne contamination. Reston being transmittable by air. Air transmittable pathogens being the MOST infectious versus direct physical contact with the bodily secretions of an infected individual as the identified vector. So, at this point, if any legitimate concern for a "different strain", it would be one with the property of an airborne vector. However what we already know regarding the Reston type (airborne) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reston_virus

Reston virus (abbreviated RESTV) was first described in 1990 as a new "strain" of Ebola virus (EBOV), a result of mutation from Ebola virus.[1] It is the single member of the species Reston ebolavirus, which is included into the genus Ebolavirus, family Filoviridae, order Mononegavirales.[2] Reston virus is named after Reston, Virginia, US, where the virus was first discovered.

RESTV was discovered in crab-eating macaques from Hazleton Laboratories (now Covance) in 1989. This attracted significant media attention due to the proximity of Reston to the Washington, DC metro area, its ability to be transmitted through the air, and the lethality of a closely related Ebola virus. Despite its status as a level-4 organism, Reston virus is non-pathogenic to humans, though hazardous to monkeys;[3][4] the perception of its lethality was compounded by the monkey's coinfection with Simian hemorrhagic fever virus (SHFV).[5]

Note :"Reston virus is non-pathogenic to humans". And despite of being a level-4 organism.

Aside from the strains identified as non air transmittable, did you have in mind a new strain of Ebola the vector of which would be airborne? Is that part of your assumption? That is where I would ask you to provide clinical data supporting any theory that the current outbreak would result from a far more contagious strain than the previous ones. And far more contagious would imply air transmittable.


Further, I noticed that you did not comment on what I related regarding the effective containment of TB cases in the US.( and again far more infectious than Ebola) Why do you think a nation like Ivory Coast is still struggling to contain active TB? Are you familiar with containment requirements and which equipment is absolutely indispensable, to include the reality that containment requirements differ from one country to the other? If Ebola can be effectively contained in a First World nation like the US, it is NOT the case in nations like Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea.

An indicator of which nations are far better prepared to contain a potential epidemic is when searching for the list of nations who apply strict biosafety measures in their labs and testing facilities known as "maximum containment facilities" where they conduct research on highly infectious diseases . So far, when it comes to the African continent, only Gabon and South Africa are listed.

You are too unnecessary defensive about any criticism of health care professionals.
There is no defensiveness involved in my investing my time and energy informing you as to which factors present in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea facilitate a higher risk of contamination for health care workers and health care professionals than they would encounter in the US. I presented you with realities you appear to not have been aware of.

If you have any argumentation against what I presented and detailed, feel free to develop on your counter argumentation. Specifically the factors I had detailed in my post.

If by now you are still not comprehending why there is no reason to envision a scenario of "a number of nurses and doctors" exercising in health care facilities in the US becoming infected, I am not going to invest more of my time and energy repeating my arguments.

Once more and for the last time, the socio economical factors in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea contribute to undermining an efficient delivery of emergent health care to include infectious diseases control or/and prevention. That is not the case in a First World nation like the US. Get it?
 
Health care worker in Texas who was in contact with Duncan has preliminarily tested positive for Ebola.
 
Health care worker in Texas who was in contact with Duncan has preliminarily tested positive for Ebola.

Yes, I wonder what Sabine Grant is gonna say now.
What I am going to tell you is this :

1) We have one health care worker (nurse) from the same hospital in Dallas who came in contact with Mr Duncan and got infected versus NONE of the attending medical personnel who treated the 2 med evacuated US citizens in different hospitals.

2) The above in no way indicating that the contamination occurred as the result of a mutated strain which would somehow go through PPE barriers. Rather an indication that the contamination occurred during a procedural failure while she was taking off her PPE. Again, the surface of the PPE will be contaminated. It takes any deviance from a step by step process while taking off a PPE to increase the risk of contamination. In no way does one isolated case of contamination affecting one health care worker supports any claims projecting an increasing number of US health care workers and/or professionals becoming infected while treating isolated cases of Ebola infected patients.

3) I stand firm by all the detailed comments I made in this thread and to summarize :

a) Factors contributing to the epidemic in Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia. To add the important detail that the reason why this broad wide outbreak is far more extended and persistent than previous ones is because it affected from the get go highly populated areas, meaning cities versus rural areas with vastly different demographic numbers.

b) That the limited and difficult health care conditions in all 3 affected areas do not apply in the US. That control measures known as contact tracing and "rings" isolation are extremely difficult in all 3 affected regions of Western Africa. Which is not the case in the US. Contact tracing was initiated effectively in the US regarding Mr Duncan's contacts. Similarly, contact tracing has been immediately initiated with this new Ebola case as well as decontamination measures regarding this nurse's personal environment.

The need for some folks ,musing in the social media, to fuel uninformed fear while envisioning a situation in the US similar to the 3 affected regions in Western Africa only denotes to which extent those folks stagnate in a climate of ignorance. When they have as much access as I have to information and data reflecting the vast socio economical disparity between Sierra Leone, Liberia , Guinea and the US. To information and data reflecting the weakness of the health care systems in those nations versus the US. Information and data regarding why health care workers present the highest risk of exposure and contamination category versus the general public.

To assume that ,because a high number of health care workers/and professionals in all 3 affected regions in Western Africa have been infected, it can only mean that a similar phenomenon will occur in the US only denotes a dismissal of provided information and data pointing to the vast disparity between the socio economical status of those regions versus the US and further disparity regarding their health care system as well as containment measures and contagious diseases control measures. Let alone dismissal of vastly different cultural behaviors.
 
Yes, I wonder what Sabine Grant is gonna say now.
What I am going to tell you is this :

1) We have one health care worker (nurse) from the same hospital in Dallas who came in contact with Mr Duncan and got infected versus NONE of the attending medical personnel who treated the 2 med evacuated US citizens in different hospitals.

2) The above in no way indicating that the contamination occurred as the result of a mutated strain which would somehow go through PPE barriers. Rather an indication that the contamination occurred during a procedural failure while she was taking off her PPE.
This was the case. Protocols were not followed.
 
What I am going to tell you is this :

1) We have one health care worker (nurse) from the same hospital in Dallas who came in contact with Mr Duncan and got infected versus NONE of the attending medical personnel who treated the 2 med evacuated US citizens in different hospitals.

2) The above in no way indicating that the contamination occurred as the result of a mutated strain which would somehow go through PPE barriers. Rather an indication that the contamination occurred during a procedural failure while she was taking off her PPE.
This was the case. Protocols were not followed.

I'm not disputing anything Sabine has said, but do you have a source for the claim that "protocols were not followed" has been confirmed?

There is a lot of speculation that this was the case, but I have not seen any confirmation.
 
This was the case. Protocols were not followed.

I'm not disputing anything Sabine has said, but do you have a source for the claim that "protocols were not followed" has been confirmed?

There is a lot of speculation that this was the case, but I have not seen any confirmation.

CNN is reporting this, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
This was the case. Protocols were not followed.

I'm not disputing anything Sabine has said, but do you have a source for the claim that "protocols were not followed" has been confirmed?

There is a lot of speculation that this was the case, but I have not seen any confirmation.

The assumption is this as the woman herself cannot pinpoint when she might have broken protocol, but removing safety gear after caring for an Ebola patient is just as dangerous and none of the team can be said to be experts at the procedures.
 
I'm not disputing anything Sabine has said, but do you have a source for the claim that "protocols were not followed" has been confirmed?

There is a lot of speculation that this was the case, but I have not seen any confirmation.

The assumption is this as the woman herself cannot pinpoint when she might have broken protocol, but removing safety gear after caring for an Ebola patient is just as dangerous and none of the team can be said to be experts at the procedures.
At that point of time, they probably did not have all the protocol steps secured for safe removal of the PPE. Checking my CEU content of removal of a full PPE, going slow step by step is essential. The recommendation is to have another health care worker present, watching your steps. Other guideline is to mentally "rehearse" prior to each step of the removal.

Anyhow, the good news is that the contamination of this nurse does not indicate that it was the product of a more infectious strain capable of "breaking through" the PPE barrier.If it were, the attending medical personnel to the first 2 patients, med evacuated from Liberia, would have exhibited symptoms of Ebola by now.
 
More FUD.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/12/us-health-ebola-idUSKCN0I10FV20141012

The article reads (in summary):

OMG!! EBOLA!! SCARY!!
Protocols might not have been followed!!

The patient has not been confirmed to have the virus.

Everyone's gonna DIE - unless they buy more news reports!

The critical line - The patient has not been confirmed to have the virus. - appears about half way down the article; and unlike my (admittedly shaky) summary, it is not highlighted in any way. :rolleyesa:

As far as I can glean from the woeful news reports, at this stage, the 'preliminary testing' consists of the nurse in question having come down with "a low grade fever".

She might be unlucky (and perhaps careless) enough to have contracted the disease; or she might not.

I don't think it is time to write her obituary quite yet. A sane person would hold her in isolation as a precaution until the diagnosis is confirmed or refuted. Which is exactly what is happening.

Nothing to see here. Move along.
 
More FUD.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/12/us-health-ebola-idUSKCN0I10FV20141012

The article reads (in summary):

OMG!! EBOLA!! SCARY!!
Protocols might not have been followed!!

The patient has not been confirmed to have the virus.
You may have missed it but what was being discussed at this point in this thread was the specific case of the CONFIRMED (by CDC testing) infected health care worker, referred to as "health care worker" in the article title.

Hospital officials said the worker had been wearing CDC-recommended protective gear during treatment, including gowns, gloves, masks and shields.

"We are evaluating other potential healthcare worker exposures because if this individual was exposed, which they were, it is possible that other individuals were exposed," Frieden said.

Tests by the CDC confirmed the patient had been infected with Ebola.

That is why some of us were discussing the possibility of this health care worker's contamination having occurred as the result of a failure to follow PPE removal procedures. A precedent for a similar failure having already been set in Spain via an infected nurse who recalled having touched her face while she was removing her PPE.

Everyone's gonna DIE - unless they buy more news reports!

The critical line - The patient has not been confirmed to have the virus. - appears about half way down the article; and unlike my (admittedly shaky) summary, it is not highlighted in any way. :rolleyesa:
The referred to health care worker in the article has been confirmed testing positive for Ebola. IMO you confused that case for the mention of this one which has nothing to do with a health care worker :

In a sign of concern over the spread of Ebola, a patient in Massachusetts who recently returned from Liberia and was displaying symptoms of Ebola was transferred from a medical clinic to a Boston hospital on Sunday, the hospital said.

The patient has not been confirmed to have the virus.

Harvard Vanguard Medical Associates hospital in Braintree, where the patient first went, was closed briefly to deal with the case but reopened, Ben Kruskal, a physician and chief of infectious disease, said in a statement.

As far as I can glean from the woeful news reports, at this stage, the 'preliminary testing' consists of the nurse in question having come down with "a low grade fever".

She might be unlucky (and perhaps careless) enough to have contracted the disease; or she might not.
From the Reuters article you linked to and quoted, the referred to health care worker as "Texas health worker becomes first person to contract Ebola in U.S." has been confirmed testing positive for Ebola according to the same article. With the specific mention of "tests by the CDC".

Subsequently, via her contact tracing, all medical personnel who came in contact with her are also placed under a mandate to monitor their vitals for any indication of a fever. If she came in contact with patients hospitalized at Health Presbyterian in Dallas , they will be equally monitored. Which is standard procedure. A GOOD thing.

As a health care worker, I run a very low risk of exposure to a highly infectious disease ONLY because I work in home health care and specialized in geriatrics. My assigned long term care folks have very limited contact with the general public. However if and when one of them were to test positive for an infectious disease, I and other field workers assigned to that patient would be mandated to monitor our vitals and for any symptoms related to the said infectious disease. Which is a GOOD thing. Further, we would be advised to avoid close contact with our other home health patients if not being replaced during those shifts. Which is a GOOD thing.

I don't think it is time to write her obituary quite yet. A sane person would hold her in isolation as a precaution until the diagnosis is confirmed or refuted. Which is exactly what is happening.
She was CDC tested and confirmed positive for Ebola. That leaves no doubts as to a confirmed diagnosis.

Nothing to see here. Move along.
If you do not mind, some of us are interested in discussing how contamination may occur from patient to health care worker. To include the discussion you jumped in which was covering specifically the increased risk of exposure and contamination when a procedural failure occurs regarding the step by step protocol of PPE removal.
 
I haven't seen it discussed, but I would like to know at what point the heightened protocol was put into place for Duncan, and if the health care worker had contact with him before that when he came into the ER for the second time.
 
More FUD.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/12/us-health-ebola-idUSKCN0I10FV20141012

The article reads (in summary):

OMG!! EBOLA!! SCARY!!
Protocols might not have been followed!!

The patient has not been confirmed to have the virus.

Everyone's gonna DIE - unless they buy more news reports!

The critical line - The patient has not been confirmed to have the virus. - appears about half way down the article; and unlike my (admittedly shaky) summary, it is not highlighted in any way. :rolleyesa:

As far as I can glean from the woeful news reports, at this stage, the 'preliminary testing' consists of the nurse in question having come down with "a low grade fever".

She might be unlucky (and perhaps careless) enough to have contracted the disease; or she might not.

I don't think it is time to write her obituary quite yet. A sane person would hold her in isolation as a precaution until the diagnosis is confirmed or refuted. Which is exactly what is happening.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

You seem to have misread the article. The health care worker I referred to this morning is confirmed to have the virus.

From your linked article:
A Texas health worker has contracted Ebola after treating a Liberian who died of the disease in Dallas last week, raising concern about how U.S. medical guidelines aimed at stopping the spread of the disease were breached.

Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, where the new case was announced on Sunday, has already faced criticism for its management of the infection.

The infected worker, a woman who was not named, is the first person to contract the disease in the United States. She had close and frequent contact during the 11-day treatment of Thomas Eric Duncan, who died on Wednesday, health officials said...

Hospital officials said the worker had been wearing CDC-recommended protective gear during treatment, including gowns, gloves, masks and shields.

"We are evaluating other potential healthcare worker exposures because if this individual was exposed, which they were, it is possible that other individuals were exposed," Frieden said.

Tests by the CDC confirmed the patient had been infected with Ebola.

Frieden said there was one person who may have had contact with the infected health worker when she could transmit the disease and that person is being monitored.

To paraphrase you: The critical line - Tests by the CDC confirmed the patient had been infected with Ebola - appears about one-third way down the article; and unlike my (admittedly shaky) summary, it is not highlighted in any way. :rolleyes:
 
More FUD.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/12/us-health-ebola-idUSKCN0I10FV20141012

The article reads (in summary):



The critical line - The patient has not been confirmed to have the virus. - appears about half way down the article; and unlike my (admittedly shaky) summary, it is not highlighted in any way. :rolleyesa:

As far as I can glean from the woeful news reports, at this stage, the 'preliminary testing' consists of the nurse in question having come down with "a low grade fever".

She might be unlucky (and perhaps careless) enough to have contracted the disease; or she might not.

I don't think it is time to write her obituary quite yet. A sane person would hold her in isolation as a precaution until the diagnosis is confirmed or refuted. Which is exactly what is happening.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

You seem to have misread the article. The health care worker I referred to this morning is confirmed to have the virus.

From your linked article:
A Texas health worker has contracted Ebola after treating a Liberian who died of the disease in Dallas last week, raising concern about how U.S. medical guidelines aimed at stopping the spread of the disease were breached.

Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, where the new case was announced on Sunday, has already faced criticism for its management of the infection.

The infected worker, a woman who was not named, is the first person to contract the disease in the United States. She had close and frequent contact during the 11-day treatment of Thomas Eric Duncan, who died on Wednesday, health officials said...

Hospital officials said the worker had been wearing CDC-recommended protective gear during treatment, including gowns, gloves, masks and shields.

"We are evaluating other potential healthcare worker exposures because if this individual was exposed, which they were, it is possible that other individuals were exposed," Frieden said.

Tests by the CDC confirmed the patient had been infected with Ebola.

Frieden said there was one person who may have had contact with the infected health worker when she could transmit the disease and that person is being monitored.

To paraphrase you: The critical line - Tests by the CDC confirmed the patient had been infected with Ebola - appears about one-third way down the article; and unlike my (admittedly shaky) summary, it is not highlighted in any way. :rolleyes:

My apologies. I misread the article, and got it wrong.

Of course, this still isn't grounds for concern for non-health workers in Dallas, or anywhere else in the developed world. You still have a far greater chance of dying from Influenza in Dallas than from Ebola, even if you are young, fit and healthy.
 
Back
Top Bottom