Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Jimmy Higgins]

I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.

In the video it can be seen that Arbery grabbed the shotgun. Not murder. Manslaughter at most.

Chasing him down while brandishing the weapons shows intent even if it's not "premeditated". I think that's the definition of 2nd degree murder but I'm no law expert. Do you expect Arbery to just lay down on the ground and not try to fight his way out? These aren't police chasing him.

Not in the US. In Georgia, the law is that so as to create enough gray area to make reckless endangerment and homicide into "self-defense". They can take this to trial and they can get acquitted.

Certainly this is the other side of the coin. You going to put a former good ole boy cop on trial for the "unfortunate" killing of a black male who had a record? Get that with a white jury and how do you think that'd finish?

You saw what the Derec's and Loren Pechtel's did with Trayvon Martin. He was an internationally renowned drug kingpin / MMA giant (of the likes of Ken Shamrock).

This black male went for the gun to kill them. They had to shoot in self-defense. They couldn't have intended to kill this man, because they called the cops. Why commit murder when the cops are going to show up. It is a fucking rerun and I am tired of this program!... this stuff is so fucking depressing!

 

[Derec]

Do you expect Arbery to just lay down on the ground and not try to fight his way out?

I think grabbing the barrel of a shotgun is a good way to get shot.

 

[marc]

There is no evidence that the man who was murdered broke the law. The two shooters said that he looked like the guy who broke into some homes. Gee. Fucking white assholes have a long history of mistaking the identity of black men. Do you have an idea how many innocent black men have been charge with crimes that they didn't commit. Now, a man is gunned down for the crime of jogging while black. Disgusting!

From the excuse making by shooters in these types of cases I question if any break-ins even happened. Was there any break-ins committed? If so, do they actually have any description of the perpetrator? Or did they just see a black guy going through a mainly white neighborhood and assumed he was some kind of criminal casing the area (like Zimmerman) then go after him?

Looking at the video it looks like he is jogging when he comes up on the stopped truck, with two armed white guys looking at him. He tries going around the right to avoid the guy with the shotgun, they start yelling something. The guy with the shotgun comes around the front to go after him. The jogger, pretty much seeing that the armed assholes are after him, he tries to defend himself.

Gregory McMichael told police he saw the same man "the other night" and that he stuck his hand down his pants on that occasion, leading McMichael to believe he was armed, according to a Glynn County Police report.
After seeing Arbery jogging, McMichael then alerted Travis, 34, according to the police report.

"Travis, the guy is running down the street, let's go," McMichael said, according to the report.

The two grabbed a shotgun and a pistol and followed Arbery in their truck, police said. Travis McMichael, the driver, followed Arbery and then attempted to cut him off, the report said. Arbery turned around and began running in the opposite direction, the police report said.
They chased Arbery to a nearby intersection, where they caught up to him, the report said.

"Stop, stop, we want to talk to you," Gregory McMichael shouted at Arbery, according to the police report.

So by his own admission they were chasing him. Yea, this is a pretty clear case. Should be a quick conviction if the court has any credibility

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Maybe that's grounds for the cops to shoot you, ya?

It's not GROUNDS to shoot someone, in and of itself, it simply means that that they did shoot him, it was a reasonable and justifiable action.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

From a Guardian article about this: According to a letter obtained by the Times, the prosecutor in Brunswick argued there was not probable cause to arrest the McMichaels because they were legally carrying firearms, had a right to pursue a burglary suspect and use deadly force to protect themselves.

I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.

I've held conceal carry permits in 3 states now and EVERY class you sit through makes it clear that you DO NOT grab your guns and pursue anyone. Even if Arbery was actually guilty of a burglary, I'm pretty sure that's not punishable by death. This is a murder.

In the video it can be seen that Arbery grabbed the shotgun. Not murder. Manslaughter at most.

Chasing down a burglar is a bad idea but is not illegal.

I'm not seeing the video but the article does say there was a fight over the shotgun. From a criminal standpoint I think the shooter is in the clear--this wasn't a case of chasing down and killing the guy. The shot wasn't about the burglary, it was about trying to take the shotgun.

Civil liability, though--they very well might be in trouble.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Maybe that's grounds for the cops to shoot you, ya?

It's not GROUNDS to shoot someone, in and of itself, it simply means that that they did shoot him, it was a reasonable and justifiable action.

Yeah, after all, if we surround him with guns, and he flinches, that meant our​ lives were in danger!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This exposes how stupid Stand Your Ground laws are. These idiots grab their guns and pursue a runner. The DA says, well, they were just defending themselves. But what about the runner? Has he no right to defense from a couple crazy assholes with guns?! Stand Your Ground is simply a bullshit law that is solely designed to defend Han Solo, ie the guy who shoots first).

The "threat" from the guys with the guns was jail, not physical harm. As such, he has no right to use force.

 

[rousseau]

If you're black in America you're in grave danger from pervasive racism. Not sure what else can be said about it?

Vast majority of black people get killed by other black people, which means that if blacks in America are in "grave danger", it's mostly from their own.
Also, blacks killing whites twice as often as whites killing blacks. Another thing that doesn't fit media's narratives of "pervasive white racism", so it doesn't get mentioned.

Ok, I'm going to give you a short history lesson. I don't have confidence that you'll read it in good faith, but here we go.

One thousand years ago black people predominated on the continent of Africa, and were minding their own business for the most part. They had problems, they were just as violent as anybody else, because like Europeans and Asians, they were human beings.

Fast forward to European colonialism and the slave trade, and black people are transported all over the world where they were given the lowest status in the societies in which they lived. Post Darwin most of the academic community was trying to prove that black people were sub-human, and that white people were a different species. Get the picture?

Now we have a base of black people in the continental U.S. who are trying to build their lives in an atmosphere of pervasive racism. White people dominate the U.S., they dominate every aspect of the economy and culture. They are the owners of businesses, they are the people who run schools, they are the people who make laws. And even those who aren't killing black people in the streets likely still don't want to hire them or promote their livelihood in any capacity. Ok, now are you getting the picture?

What do you expect black people to do? How do you expect them to survive in this environment? Have you ever put even a single thought to that? Even those who end up finding some semblance of success are those who've adapted to a white dominated culture, not vice versa. And even those people still face enormous barriers.

I'm done apologizing or beating around the bush, it's people like you who make this situation a reality. You're an unapologetic, uninformed racist.

 

[laughing dog]

This exposes how stupid Stand Your Ground laws are. These idiots grab their guns and pursue a runner. The DA says, well, they were just defending themselves. But what about the runner? Has he no right to defense from a couple crazy assholes with guns?! Stand Your Ground is simply a bullshit law that is solely designed to defend Han Solo, ie the guy who shoots first).

The "threat" from the guys with the guns was jail, not physical harm. As such, he has no right to use force.

You have no idea what the threat from those two assholes was. Apparently the victim felt his life was in danger. And, when someone is pointing a firearm at you, or running after you with a firearm, your life is in danger.

I wonder if the victim had been armed and gunned down these two vigilantes, if the usual suspects would be defending him.

 

[laughing dog]

Fuck that noise. I used to sell weed. So that's a reason enough to kill someone now?

No. The reason Z shot him was because Trayvon attacked him.

The drug dealing (as well as the jewelry burglary) is simply dispelling the family narrative that he was a good kid.

Then why did you bring up the red herring? Dishonest, much?

No, you don't get it. It makes the black victim more deserving of their fate.

 

[Derec]

Now we have a base of black people in the continental U.S. who are trying to build their lives in an atmosphere of pervasive racism.

I disagree that there exists "an atmosphere of pervasive racism".

White people dominate the U.S., they dominate every aspect of the economy and culture.

Not really true any more.

They are the owners of businesses,

A lot of businesses are owned by black people.

they are the people who run schools,

Plenty of school principals, deans and other administrators are black. Hell, we even have colleges whose sole purpose is that they have almost exclusively black student body and faculty.

they are the people who make laws.

There are a lot of black legislators on both federal and state level.

And even those who aren't killing black people in the streets likely still don't want to hire them or promote their livelihood in any capacity.

Bullshit. Especially since it isn't mostly white people who are "killing black people in the streets". Vast majority of black people gets killed by other black people. And there are twice as many white people killed by black people than vice versa. But that doesn't fit your prejudices, so you keep ignoring it.

Ok, now are you getting the picture?

I am not, because your picture is full of shit!

What do you expect black people to do? How do you expect them to survive in this environment?

What do you expect them to do?

Have you ever put even a single thought to that? Even those who end up finding some semblance of success are those who've adapted to a white dominated culture, not vice versa.

What's wrong with expecting people to adapt to the culture of the land. If you move to China or Japan, you would be expected to adapt to the local culture.

And even those people still face enormous barriers.

Like what?

I'm done apologizing or beating around the bush, it's people like you who make this situation a reality. You're an unapologetic, uninformed racist.

Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

 

[Jarhyn]

Then why did you bring up the red herring? Dishonest, much?

No, you don't get it. It makes the black victim more deserving of their fate.

Man, so, by that logic, if I saw an uglyass mofo who I suspected of hiring a prostitute in my neighborhood and pulled a gun on him, if he resisted or ran away, I could shoot him, SHOULD shoot him! I'll remember that.

Not that I suspect I'll ever see just such a person in my neighborhood; I suspect they would be too scared of all the black people to be seen within 10 miles of here.

 

[rousseau]

Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.

 

[Trausti]

Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.

But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This exposes how stupid Stand Your Ground laws are. These idiots grab their guns and pursue a runner. The DA says, well, they were just defending themselves. But what about the runner? Has he no right to defense from a couple crazy assholes with guns?! Stand Your Ground is simply a bullshit law that is solely designed to defend Han Solo, ie the guy who shoots first).

The "threat" from the guys with the guns was jail, not physical harm.

How the fuck is he supposed to if these assholes are not going to shoot him. If he indeed is INNOCENT, he'd have no idea what the fuck they were on about and being extremely nervous and anxious.

As such, he has no right to use force.

The fuck he doesn't. Attempt to apprehend and brandishing a weapon? That can be considered kidnapping. Especially if the guy doesn't have a clue about what these dumbasses are yelling at him over.

 

[TV and credit cards]

§ 17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

McMichael stated "the other night" they saw the same male and he stuck his hand down his pants which lead them to believe the male was armed.

I mean, if you're going to go this far, you have to kill the man so he has no story to tell and you can throw in a good old "hand down the pants" claim.
This goes way far for a citizen's arrest. "Immediate knowledge", how ever they define that, pushes citizen's arrest toward vigilantism.

 

[rousseau]

Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.

But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

Sure, but this is like taking fifty alligators from Florida, trapping them in a small cage, then calling them violent because they get aggressive with one another. It has no relevance to the problem of racism at all.

 

[Trausti]

But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

Sure, but this is like taking fifty alligators from Florida, trapping them in a small cage, then calling them violent because they get aggressive with one another. It has no relevance to the problem of racism at all.

You know, by your analogy, you're saying Blacks are inherently violent. Did you mean to convey that?

 

[rousseau]

But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

Sure, but this is like taking fifty alligators from Florida, trapping them in a small cage, then calling them violent because they get aggressive with one another. It has no relevance to the problem of racism at all.

You know, by your analogy, you're saying Blacks are inherently violent. Did you mean to convey that?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that if you take any living animal and put them in dire economic conditions they will need to fight for survival. How do you expect anybody living in a ghetto to survive without getting violent?

 

[laughing dog]

Bullshit! Your attitude is the racist one. You see whites as automatically bad and having it in for the blacks. You are also the uninformed one, as you keep ignoring actual crime statistics.

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.

But he's not wrong that most violent crime committed against Black people is by other Black people.

It is a stupid "whataboutism" which irrelevant to the actual discussion.