Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[Derec]

What benefit would Soros gain from funding them? Koch, however, would benefit. What makes the most sense?

I do not know, but it is well known that Soros is funding such groups. We have no evidence that Koch is.

 

[Derec]

Has one of the rwnj's here pointed out that he was no angel yet or is that implied in the thread title?

Floyd served 5 years for armed robbery. But that is rarely mentioned in articles about him. I wonder why.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Has one of the rwnj's here pointed out that he was no angel yet or is that implied in the thread title?

Floyd served 5 years for armed robbery. But that is rarely mentioned in articles about him. I wonder why.

Because it isn't relevant perhaps. What he did last time has no bearing on whether or not this time warranted a cop kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes, the last two of which he was completely limp and unresponsive.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I know some folks will think the preliminary autopsy findings "prove" that the kneeling on Floyd's neck didn't cause his death, that he died of underlying health conditions. But it doesn't, not unless those conditions would have been fatal right then and there without the stress and trauma of being pinned on the ground with a police officer kneeling on his neck for almost 9 minutes.

It looks like the manslaughter charge is pretty well supported.

Blocking the airway would both shut him up (which we saw) and kill if continued.

If his death was unrelated to what the officer did it's quite a coincidence. We do see such things at times with stimulant drugs, the body just shutting down when they come back down. However, those guys are violent madmen, he wasn't like that.

 

[Deepak]

It's clearly a case of excessive force.

I agree with that, that’s the very least. But without a cause of death it’s a bit premature to call it murder.

The jury, as the trier of fact, is going to adjudicate whether it's murder. The video provides clear probable cause.

The autopsy isn't going to conclude he committed murder, and guilt doesn't get established before an arrest. Nor would it have shown he died of some unrelated cause.

Now that it's out - what say you? Is it conclusive he's a murder or conclusive he's not? Or do cops just always get a pass unless they preemptively admit guilt because they have special rules? Last I checked laws applied equally to law enforcement. The autopsy won't tell you if this was a moral or necessary act.

 

[Derec]

Because it isn't relevant perhaps.

It is certainly more relevant than that he had unprotected sex or that he has a fiance. And yet they waste a lot of "column inches" on such details.

What he did last time has no bearing on whether or not this time warranted a cop kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes, the last two of which he was completely limp and unresponsive.

Yeah, he screwed up by using an unauthorized restraint. But Floyd was huge. He was 6'6" and full of muscle. I doubt these cops would have reacted the same if Steve Urkel had been passing phony $20s. Although, we all know, Steve Urklel's fakes would have been perfect so he would not have gotten caught in the first place.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What benefit would Soros gain from funding them? Koch, however, would benefit. What makes the most sense?

I do not know, but it is well known that Soros is funding such groups. We have no evidence that Koch is.

Why do you say that?

 

[Derec]

Why do you say that?

Because we know Soros' "Open Society Foundation" has been funding "Black Lives Matter"-type groups.

 

[Derec]

Ugh. This chief of police in Atlanta is more than useless! She came out into the crowd, telling them she understands them while they are burning police cars and buildings.
Why not arrest those fuckers? Why try to appease them?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Yeah, he screwed up by using an authorized restraint.

Actually, there are officers saying that isn't actually an authorized restraint for someone who is handcuffed and isn't fighting.

 

[Arctish]

The last couple of times you and I discussed similar demonstrations it was clearly shown that what people were upset about went far beyond the occasional 'fluke' or the police killing someone doing 'stupid shit'. People were upset over a pattern of police misconduct and use of excessive force, as well as official complicity, cover-ups, and indifference.

But true cases of police misconduct are relatively rare, especially fatal ones.
Most of the cases #BLM rioted over were justified. That's why they resort to lies such as "it was a book" or "hands up don't shoot".

Most if not all of the cases #BLM protested were ones in which non-lethal options for protecting the public, enforcing laws, and arresting suspects were available but not used.

In the discussions we had, there was a lot of semantic quibbling over the term 'justified'. You and Loren were looking for the exact moment when the use of lethal force was allowable under the law and using it to argue the use of lethal force was therefore justified. I and others were looking for indications it was actually necessary, and finding none, argued that the use of lethal force was not justified.

And I'm sure you remember the eyewitnesses who said Michael Brown's hand were up. They are a lot more credible on that point than you.

What do you want to bet that if I go looking into the recent history of the Minneapolis Police Department I will find incidents just as appalling as those perpetrated by those other PDs we've looked at?

Like what for example?

Mistreating suspects, lying about why they pulled them over, or why they drew their weapons, or why they tased him/her, or how many times they did it, or lying about people resisting arrest. You know, the usual.

I don't think they'll be as bad as the Milwaukee Police Department. At least, I sincerely hope not.

 

[Derec]

Yeah, he screwed up by using an authorized restraint.

Actually, there are officers saying that isn't actually an authorized restraint for someone who is handcuffed and isn't fighting.

Typo!

 

[Deepak]

What benefit would Soros gain from funding them? Koch, however, would benefit. What makes the most sense?

I do not know, but it is well known that Soros is funding such groups. We have no evidence that Koch is.

Why do you say that?

Is this a serious question?

 

[DBT]

Has one of the rwnj's here pointed out that he was no angel yet or is that implied in the thread title?

It makes no difference what he was. Excessive force was used.

 

[Derec]

Most if not all of the cases #BLM protested were ones in which non-lethal options for protecting the public and arresting suspects were available but not used.

Not really. Most were violent thugs like Mike Brown, Mario Woods, etc. who had it coming.

In the discussions we had, there was a lot of semantic quibbling over the term 'justified'. You and Loren were looking for the exact moment when the use of lethal force was allowable under the law and using it to argue the use of lethal force was justified. I and others were looking for indications it was actually necessary, and finding none, argued that the use of lethal force was not justified.

Necessary is a bad criterion here. Take Michael Brown. Yes, maybe Wilson could have avoided deadly force. But Brown was coming at him, refusing to stop and get on the ground. How close should he have let him come? Close enough to engage in hand-to-hand combat and perhaps take his gun? There have been police officers who were shot with their own guns.

And I'm sure you remember the eyewitnesses who said Michael Brown's hand were up. They are a lot more credible on that point than you.

Hands being up does not by itself indicate surrender. We know from physical evidence that Brown moved forward.

Mistreating suspects, lying about why they pulled them over, or why they drew their weapons, or why they tased him/her, or how many times they did it, or lying about people resisting arrest. You know, the usual.

Nobody is justifying that. What examples of that do you have though?

 

[DBT]

It's not up to the police to judge 'who had it coming.'

 

[Derec]

Now the Atlanta rioters are moving into Buckhead and looting stores there. The property owners there will not like it that ATLPD is letting this happen instead of rounding up the rioters!

Also looting at the Target at Sidney Marcus Blvd. What the hell are they doing not arresting these people?

Maybe this will result in Buckhead/North Atlanta finally seceding. There have been attempts to do this in the past, and this passive response might be the catalyst to make it happen.

 

[Derec]

It's not up to the police to judge 'who had it coming.'

If somebody who already attacked me turns around and comes at me again, he damn right had it coming and I can make that judgment in order to protect myself!

 

[DBT]

It's not up to the police to judge 'who had it coming.'

If somebody who already attacked me turns around and comes at me again, he damn right had it coming and I can make that judgment in order to protect myself!

That has nothing to do with the situation Floyd was in. He was restrained, handcuffed, face down with a knee in his neck.

 

[Derec]

Did you read the full article you linked? I can't read it all without subscribing. Does it say anything about looters, rioters and arsonists?

The opening sentence indicates the fund is for people engaged in protests against police brutality.

I did not, alas. But regular protesters are not the ones getting arrested. It is the rioters, looters, arsonists . Anti-police people like Kaep call them all "protesters".

Given Kaepernick's well known stance on that issue, are you actually surprised he'd be supportive of them and their cause? Or are you just counter-protesting?

I know Kaep is extremely hostile to police. But most people excuse him saying he is only against so-called "police brutality", except he defines that to be for example shooting a perp who stabbed somebody and refused to drop the knife despite non-lethal bean bags being used first.

Kaep is definitely NOT a good guy!