My city, Minneapolis, On Fire: a story about white nationalism and it's consequences

[Derec]

Chauvin got charged. After the riots.

They have already started, but they certainly continued unimpeded and even picked up steam after Chauvin was charged, as if nothing happened.

this is just the nucleation event to say "no more".

"No more" what? No more police killings? Not even justified ones?
But I do agree with you that the riots were not really about Floyd. The activists/radicals who wan to fundamentally change America just needed an excuse. I think one of the real goals, other than neutering police and thus help the criminal classes is to push the Overton window on so-called "reparations". Race activists like Te-Nahitsi Coats would love to have themselves some free money!

Your grasp on causality seems weak.

Applies more to you.

 

[Derec]

I think that it is morally indefensible that certain groups, largely persons of color and women, have largely been left out of opportunities to gain access to business loans and other help to start businesses. That needs to change and one way to change it is to make certain that you look to do business with people who have largely been left out of the opportunity to do business because of the color of their skin.

First of all, the exclusion you talk about has occurred a long time ago, and you cannot compensate for past wrongs by wronging people who kinda look like the beneficiaries of past wrongs. That is the same evil as so-called "affirmative action".

when I buy locally, the money stays in my community rather than gets shipped off to some entity somewhere else.

Question: what is your opinion on illegal workers sending a significant percentage of their earnings as international remittances? That money definitely does not circulate in the local community.

I don't see it as very different to actively look for minority owned businesses.

I do. That's as wrong as actively looking for white-owned businesses.

By purchasing from LOCAL businesses, rather than businesses who sell and take their profits elsewhere, it makes a lot of sense to purchase from people within the community and to keep the money within the community.

Regardless of their skin color.

Also, there is a big difference in choosing to be a customer to some business, vs. like Jarhyn think that it's ok to loot and destroy businesses [he] personally doesn't like.

 

[Derec]

Why are we still conflating morality of black lives matter with opportunists advanaging themselves of situations to gain discord as a thing?

I agree that black lives matter. I disagree with Black Lives Matter, for a multitude of reasons, like calling justified shootings "murder" or supporting looting.

Right now opportunists are raping the stock markets with false hope of a quick economic comeback. No one is pointing that moral shortfall out.

Raping the stock market?

People are going to be distancing until either the herd or vaccine immunization effects, probably both, take hold. No way business will recover any time soon.

People don't want to stay inside long term. Now even blue states like California are opening for business. I agree that many people, especially more vulnerable, are going to social distance for longer though. But businesses will gradually recover. Unless they get burned to the ground by "protesters".

Until capitalism monitizes increased consumers and accounts for effects of military might will we ever get a handle on national debt. It is not a zero sum game. Nothing is fixed. It is a customer/power value game. Morality should also be handled similarly.

Heh?

 

[Deepak]

If you say you support something in principle, but never do in practice, you might be a racist.

If every post of yours contains a race-baiting racist phraseology you might be a racist.

/foxworthy

 

[Derec]

If you say you support something in principle, but never do in practice, you might be a racist.

If every post of yours contains a race-baiting racist phraseology you might be a racist.

To race baiters like you, everybody who disagrees with you in a "raicst". It's not credible at all.

 

[Deepak]

If you say you support something in principle, but never do in practice, you might be a racist.

If every post of yours contains a race-baiting racist phraseology you might be a racist.

To race baiters like you, everybody who disagrees with you in a "raicst". It's not credible at all.

You speak like a racist. Anyone can easily find hundreds if not thousands of posts.

If your argument is that you just did a good job of fooling everyone, but you're not actually a racist, then that's your problem not mine.

 

[Derec]

You speak like a racist. Anyone can easily find hundreds if not thousands of posts.

I have zero racial animus. Just because I am opposed to racial preferences and reject the false notion that blacks are oppressed in contemporary US does not make me a "racist".

your argument is that you just did a good job of fooling everyone, but you're not actually a racist, then that's your problem not mine.

No, my argument is that you call everybody who disagrees with left wing orthodoxy on race matters (aka, white people: oppressors, black people: oppressed victims) a "racist".

 

[Deepak]

You speak like a racist. Anyone can easily find hundreds if not thousands of posts.

I have zero racial animus. Just because I am opposed to racial preferences and reject the false notion that blacks are oppressed in contemporary US does not make me a "racist".

your argument is that you just did a good job of fooling everyone, but you're not actually a racist, then that's your problem not mine.

No, my argument is that you call everybody who disagrees with left wing orthodoxy on race matters (aka, white people: oppressors, black people: oppressed victims) a "racist".

I don't believe you. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I'd have a hard time thinking anyone else believes you either.

Everyone can see your words even if they don't comment on it every time. In fact - the only way anyone has any sense of another person's character is through their words.

We can all see the endless stream of bullshit from the past to the present. You're a well known quantity, we've all observed you for years.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Damn those white supremacists in Minneapolis! Must be those "Boogaloos" ...

That doesn't look like it's related to the protests at all, but something personal.

 

[starwater]

You speak like a racist. Anyone can easily find hundreds if not thousands of posts.

I have zero racial animus. Just because I am opposed to racial preferences and reject the false notion that blacks are oppressed in contemporary US does not make me a "racist".

your argument is that you just did a good job of fooling everyone, but you're not actually a racist, then that's your problem not mine.

No, my argument is that you call everybody who disagrees with left wing orthodoxy on race matters (aka, white people: oppressors, black people: oppressed victims) a "racist".

Can you please explain why you think black people are not oppressed?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not quite... that's the stupid prize. For the record, one I hope you are one of the winners of re: Wells Fargo stocks

You certainly have a way of putting a certain unbelievably dishonest spin on things...

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it dishonest.

Caring about the race of the owners is racist. Period. It doesn't matter if they are white or black, it's still racist.

And don't be surprised if the burned-out businesses never come back, nor anything else replace them.

 

[Jarhyn]

More ~"AlL LiVeS MaTtTeR" bullshit

Yes, all lives, businesses, etc. Matter. But we need to look out for communities that have the least opportunity and least control first, all other things essentially equal.

I posted a comic a few pages back that illustrates the point. You seem to have missed the point of it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Police brutality against black Americans is a huge problem in every way
except statistically.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Black Americans are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by the police than White Americans, and they are 1.3 times likely to be unarmed at the time of their deaths. And that's an average; in some states, there isn't a huge problem, while in others the chance of death is as bad as 6x higher for Blacks than for Whites.

Disparate results does not prove discrimination!

Cities with more blacks have more police shootings, but blacks are not shot disproportionately in those cities.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

My initial reaction was dismay at no immediate arrest. I supported protesting that. And then Antifa did not let a good crisis go to waste.

Actually, I do not think there should have been an immediate arrest. If you didn't catch them in the act investigate before arresting!

 

[Jarhyn]

My initial reaction was dismay at no immediate arrest. I supported protesting that. And then Antifa did not let a good crisis go to waste.

Actually, I do not think there should have been an immediate arrest. If you didn't catch them in the act investigate before arresting!

Got it. So police shouldn't attest ANYONE not immediately seen committing a crime until there has been a full investigation and charges are brought.

Or maybe we can acknowledge what the police already think makes sense: that you can arrest a suspect, and continue investigating for 24 hours, bring preliminary charges, and continue investigating, and update those charges.

At the very least, the DA could bring manslaughter charges, the investigation could continue, and then the DA could update those charges, the same way they do for every situation where the suspect isn't a cop.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Why are those who claim that it's all white people fault never called out for their racism?

Ah yes, I'm racist for the fact that the people starting fires and shooting people and who are otherwise engaged in suspicious activities are white, sporting symbology of white nationalist militias or white nationalist movements.

Actually your words are very racist. I will not say that you are, but it is absolutely true that the way you express yourself is.

As for white people, they are the overwhelming majority of both white nationalists and antifa, both very violent groups who like to break things for the sake of breaking things. Do you ever wonder if all the "pre-positioned pallets of bricks" came from the other suspect?

And before you say "it is what their name means" how can I tell if you are referring to Antifa or National Socialists?

 

[Jarhyn]

ITT: people who can't tell the difference between a philosophy based simply on a "anti-fascist" with no organizational structure, no formal membership, or central messaging (and thus generally immune to false self-representation), and a formal political party affiliation based on centralized propaganda, naming schemes, and structure.

One of these things is ONLY the name on the tin, and inviting everyone who thinks they fit that name in. The other is putting a product in the tin first, and naming it after the fact in a way to not scare off the customers.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I see two very violent groups of shitheads, and I know your defense will be "but the name means..." Then you don't do a good job elaborating on which one is "only the name on the tin" and which one is "putting the product on the tin first".

So I wanted to know when the name means and when the name doesn't mean and how to tell the difference. Is it whether or not they are violent?

And if that means that violent shitheads aren't violent shitheads if they belong to the correct group. Especially since both are made of white people being violent shitheads and LARPing as revolutionaries.

 

[Jarhyn]

ITT: people who just got a description of how to differentiate between a party/organizational name and a group with a descriptive name, and still claim to not know the difference

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

So the name means something except for when the name doesn't mean something, and if you notice that you are guilty of something undefined.