Religion And The Placebo Effect

[steve_bank]

NPR has several shows on the placebo effect under Hidden Brain.

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/09/7216...-a-powerful-tool-that-medicine-has-overlooked

People who took placebo pain killers who felt better still need the pill even after they were told it was a placebo.

That generally explains the religious experience. Religious experience is one aspect of a brain-body function.

Experiments show that forms of the placebo effect can affect healing, the power of faith so to speak.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

A few pertinent morsels from the link:

Kaptchuk decided to run a study. He hypothesized that the placebo effect might not be just about pills. It might be connected to the trust between patients and doctors, to the rituals of medicine. Patients, including Bonanno, were told upfront that they were getting a placebo. They were also given a kind doctor who treated them like a person, not just a number. Even though Bonanno was disappointed to get a placebo, she followed her doctor's orders.

How can it be that patients get better on placebos when they know they are getting placebos? Kaptchuk says, even though patients know they are getting pretend treatment, all the rituals of the doctor-patient relationship are still intact and these have healing benefits.

The effect was larger in conditions like pain and nausea, where patients reported their own outcomes, than in cases like hypertension, where doctors measured the outcomes. The placebo effect was also larger when treatments looked and sounded more dramatic.

Of course this all makes sense. If placebos really worked the doctor would simply tell the patient to take a placebo and send them on their way. We're social animals. Placebos are all about the interaction, feeling cared for, feeling important. They don't work on broken legs.

So there is a social connection, and therefore a religious connection. And I'm a one time IBS sufferer so I can relate to the article.

 

[steve_bank]

A few pertinent morsels from the link:

Kaptchuk decided to run a study. He hypothesized that the placebo effect might not be just about pills. It might be connected to the trust between patients and doctors, to the rituals of medicine. Patients, including Bonanno, were told upfront that they were getting a placebo. They were also given a kind doctor who treated them like a person, not just a number. Even though Bonanno was disappointed to get a placebo, she followed her doctor's orders.

How can it be that patients get better on placebos when they know they are getting placebos? Kaptchuk says, even though patients know they are getting pretend treatment, all the rituals of the doctor-patient relationship are still intact and these have healing benefits.

The effect was larger in conditions like pain and nausea, where patients reported their own outcomes, than in cases like hypertension, where doctors measured the outcomes. The placebo effect was also larger when treatments looked and sounded more dramatic.

Of course this all makes sense. If placebos really worked the doctor would simply tell the patient to take a placebo and send them on their way. We're social animals. Placebos are all about the interaction, feeling cared for, feeling important. They don't work on broken legs.

So there is a social connection, and therefore a religious connection. And I'm a one time IBS sufferer so I can relate to the article.

I went to Catholic grammar school attached to n old New England Gothic small cathedral.

The icons, the lighting was all about setting a mood. The costumes of the preist and alter boys. Incense.

 

[bigfield]

The icons, the lighting was all about setting a mood. The costumes of the preist and alter boys. Incense.

You might find this interesting, then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLzT4CeBT6I

 

[Lion IRC]

What if the afterlife is like a placebo effect? What if the only thing you need do to survive that "singularity" called death is for your "soul" to have a strong enough immune system - faith.

What if atheism weakens your souls immune system so much that it doesnt ever wake up again after that sleep.

 

[bigfield]

What if the afterlife is like a placebo effect? What if the only thing you need do to survive that "singularity" called death is for your "soul" to have a strong enough immune system - faith.



What if atheism weakens your souls immune system so much that it doesnt ever wake up again after that sleep.

lol, "soul".

 

[Lion IRC]

What if the afterlife is a placebo effect and the only thing your soul needs to survive the physical death of the body is conscious exercising of your soul - psyche, ego, chi, free will, mind, anima/animus, etc, call it whatever you like - by doing things which atheists would say are a waste of time (Praying, believing God and the afterlife.) What if the strong soul did not "die" and the sickly weak one did?

What if the ability of the soul to continue conscious existence outside the body really was optional? What if the ONE THING needed for your soul to survive an illness called "death" was a strong immune system called "belief".

#placebo

 

[bigfield]

What if the afterlife is a placebo effect and the only thing your soul needs to survive the physical death of the body is conscious exercising of your soul - psyche, ego, chi, free will, mind, anima/animus, etc, call it whatever you like - by doing things which atheists would say are a waste of time (Praying, believing God and the afterlife.) What if the strong soul did not "die" and the sickly weak one did?

What if the ability of the soul to continue conscious existence outside the body really was optional? What if the ONE THING needed for your soul to survive an illness called "death" was a strong immune system called "belief".

#placebo

Then only people with faith would have an afterlife, obviously. But that's just wishful thinking.

What's wrong, Lion? Scared the afterlife might not actually be real?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

What if the afterlife is like a placebo effect? What if the only thing you need do to survive that "singularity" called death is for your "soul" to have a strong enough immune system - faith.



What if atheism weakens your souls immune system so much that it doesnt ever wake up again after that sleep.

lol, "soul".

Why would a soul ghost be punished for something a biological body did? Are we supposed to be holy so that our soul ghost doesn't catch shit after we're dead? That kinda makes sense actually. Poor soul ghosts are just along for the ride and then they catch hell - literally - because atheists have no compassion for the fate of their attached soul ghosts. That's a goofy arrangement and needs revised. It's not the soul ghost's fault.

 

[Lion IRC]

What if the afterlife is a placebo effect and the only thing your soul needs to survive the physical death of the body is conscious exercising of your soul - psyche, ego, chi, free will, mind, anima/animus, etc, call it whatever you like - by doing things which atheists would say are a waste of time (Praying, believing God and the afterlife.) What if the strong soul did not "die" and the sickly weak one did?

What if the ability of the soul to continue conscious existence outside the body really was optional? What if the ONE THING needed for your soul to survive an illness called "death" was a strong immune system called "belief".

#placebo

Then only people with faith would have an afterlife, obviously. But that's just wishful thinking.

What's wrong, Lion? Scared the afterlife might not actually be real?

A placebo effect IS wishful thinking.

If you don’t think you have a soul then it doesn’t really matter whether your soul has a weak immune response to the process we “call” dying. But what if the physical/material transformation known as death (trauma,) impacts conscious awareness of "reality" differently depending on the individual souls "immune system"?

What if atheism is to the soul, what smoking is to the lungs?

Or to use a different analogy, what if the soul is an entity/energy which can either be concentrated (strengthened) by the vaccine called faith (theism) or diluted and weakened by the 'sickness' called atheism - which literally sees the 'patient' embracing no hope at all of a cure or antidote that can surpass death – no placebo is offered.

 

[bigfield]

What if the afterlife is a placebo effect and the only thing your soul needs to survive the physical death of the body is conscious exercising of your soul - psyche, ego, chi, free will, mind, anima/animus, etc, call it whatever you like - by doing things which atheists would say are a waste of time (Praying, believing God and the afterlife.) What if the strong soul did not "die" and the sickly weak one did?

What if the ability of the soul to continue conscious existence outside the body really was optional? What if the ONE THING needed for your soul to survive an illness called "death" was a strong immune system called "belief".

#placebo

Then only people with faith would have an afterlife, obviously. But that's just wishful thinking.

What's wrong, Lion? Scared the afterlife might not actually be real?

A placebo effect IS wishful thinking.

If you don’t think you have a soul then it doesn’t really matter whether your soul has a weak immune response to the process we “call” dying. But what if the physical/material transformation known as death (trauma,) impacts conscious awareness of "reality" differently depending on the individual souls "immune system"?

What if atheism is to the soul, what smoking is to the lungs?

Or to use a different analogy, what if the soul is an entity/energy which can either be concentrated (strengthened) by the vaccine called faith (theism) or diluted and weakened by the 'sickness' called atheism - which literally sees the 'patient' embracing no hope at all of a cure or antidote that can surpass death – no placebo is offered.

You can make up any "what if" you like, but it all hinges on your wish for the soul and the afterlife to be real things.

This is a bizarre attempt to express your delusion in pseudoscientific terminology. Next you'll be telling us the soul is quantum-something.

 

[ideologyhunter]

To be safe -- and to build up my soul's immunity factor -- I have this plan. Not sure if it's daily or weekly yet. Here goes:

1) Get my thetan level checked by a Scientologist minister on the E-meter.
2) Send $1 to Creflo Dollar.
3) Speak in tongues. (Note to self: Practice with Ella Fitzgerald record.)
4) Pray 5 times toward Mecca.
5) Chant 'Nom renge kyo' (translation: 'Don't renege on Yoko Ono') for a while.
6) Do a Santerian chicken sacrifice. No. I'm vegetarian. Um, throw a can of Chicken of the Sea down the stairs.

All that, and with my luck, I'd croak, get transported to the gates of heaven, and find Joseph Smith sitting there with a quill pen, checking off all the sarcastic things I've said about the LDS church.
You can't win. Okay:
7) Read the Book of Ether and send a pretend-tithe to Salt Lake City.
Done.

 

[steve_bank]

What if the afterlife is a placebo effect and the only thing your soul needs to survive the physical death of the body is conscious exercising of your soul - psyche, ego, chi, free will, mind, anima/animus, etc, call it whatever you like - by doing things which atheists would say are a waste of time (Praying, believing God and the afterlife.) What if the strong soul did not "die" and the sickly weak one did?

What if the ability of the soul to continue conscious existence outside the body really was optional? What if the ONE THING needed for your soul to survive an illness called "death" was a strong immune system called "belief".

#placebo

That would be along the lines of Buddhism. The practice of yoga is supposed to lead to the ability to stay conscious during death and the transition to the next stage, without falling back into a reincarnation. If your karma is good enough you remain transcendent above physic existence.

 

[Tigers!]

What if the afterlife is a placebo effect and the only thing your soul needs to survive the physical death of the body is conscious exercising of your soul - psyche, ego, chi, free will, mind, anima/animus, etc, call it whatever you like - by doing things which atheists would say are a waste of time (Praying, believing God and the afterlife.) What if the strong soul did not "die" and the sickly weak one did?

What if the ability of the soul to continue conscious existence outside the body really was optional? What if the ONE THING needed for your soul to survive an illness called "death" was a strong immune system called "belief".

#placebo

Then only people with faith would have an afterlife, obviously. But that's just wishful thinking.

What's wrong, Lion? Scared the afterlife might not actually be real?

If the afterlife is not real then there is nothing to worry about. Its if it is real that the worry may begin.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Choosy mothers choose JIF. Just Imaginary, Folks.

 

[skepticalbip]

What if the afterlife is a placebo effect and the only thing your soul needs to survive the physical death of the body is conscious exercising of your soul - psyche, ego, chi, free will, mind, anima/animus, etc, call it whatever you like - by doing things which atheists would say are a waste of time (Praying, believing God and the afterlife.) What if the strong soul did not "die" and the sickly weak one did?

What if the ability of the soul to continue conscious existence outside the body really was optional? What if the ONE THING needed for your soul to survive an illness called "death" was a strong immune system called "belief".

#placebo

Then only people with faith would have an afterlife, obviously. But that's just wishful thinking.

What's wrong, Lion? Scared the afterlife might not actually be real?

If the afterlife is not real then there is nothing to worry about. Its if it is real that the worry may begin.

If anyone believes the afterlife is real then the religious should really be worried whether their particular religion is the right one. Praising the wrong god would likely be worse than not praising any god at all.

 

[abaddon]

Souls and an afterlife are goofy enough. But it's the "death as a disease to be cured" story that is pretty unconvincing too.

And for the "what ifs" to hit home (at least from my POV) you'd have to stop making the after-life state of "being dead" seem like the frightening bit. I think the Christian view is we ARE going to die. The growing old and dying and breathing your last... it's not this that anyone gets to escape.

But that's the only fearsome thing about death, is the dying part of it. Once you're dead, there's no experience at all as far as anyone knows. And there's nothing about hell that's worth taking seriously. It's only pathetic that any adult goes on believing that shit.

Death as "the long sleep". Hmph. My experience of sleep is it's very pleasant. What a relief after a long day to lay down and go blank for some hours. Generally speaking, it's nice to wake up again... But I don't know about waking up to eternity.

What makes life meaningful is its brevity; that won't seem "intuitive" to people used to religious (false) ideas, so let go of the intuitive impulses and think on it more carefully. I wonder if people who want immortality have really thought on it or merely absorbed the general notion it has to be wonderful? Endless eons, trillions upon trillions of years. What I don't get done today, I can do zillions of years from now... what difference does it make?

 

[Keith&Co.]

What if the afterlife is a placebo effect and the only thing your soul needs to survive the physical death of the body is conscious exercising of your soul - psyche, ego, chi, free will, mind, anima/animus, etc, call it whatever you like - by doing things which atheists would say are a waste of time (Praying, believing God and the afterlife.) What if the strong soul did not "die" and the sickly weak one did?

What if the ability of the soul to continue conscious existence outside the body really was optional? What if the ONE THING needed for your soul to survive an illness called "death" was a strong immune system called "belief".

#placebo

]

Probably be less 'wordy' to just suggest 'the afterlife is not objectively real. We all get the afterlife we expect. The Xian mind makes Heaven, the Norse mind male Valhalla, and the atheist mind makes oblivion.'

 

[atrib]

What if the afterlife is like a placebo effect? What if the only thing you need do to survive that "singularity" called death is for your "soul" to have a strong enough immune system - faith.

What if atheism weakens your souls immune system so much that it doesnt ever wake up again after that sleep.

What is a soul? And how does one go about verifying its existence?

I think we should leave the debate about the impact of atheism on the soul to later, after the terms have been defined and the premises verified.

 

[atrib]

If the afterlife is not real then there is nothing to worry about. Its if it is real that the worry may begin.

If brain eating zombies from the planet Zombgon are not real then there is nothing to worry about. Its if it is real that the worry may begin.