This week in Woke: Actresses justly cancelled for committing atrocities

[krypton iodine sulfur]

Funny story about that -- turns out that during the original McCarthyism period, American communists weren't all starving to death from being barred from earning a living. Rather, certain industries had campaigns to drive communists out. Most infamously, the movie industry.

The Daily Mail is actually one of ours. We use it to lure out wrongthinkers like moths to a flame. Our operatives haven't been able to locate the other two to take them to the reeducation camp.

Yeah, funny how anonymity makes people more willing to speak truth to power. If the Woke knew Metaphor's and my real names and where we worked then it's entirely plausible that some of their hotheads would be libeling us to our bosses and trying to get us fired. That's the whole reason doxing is a thing. That's why only an idiot would think that "the little guys like Metaphor and Bomb" not having been silenced qualifies as evidence that Halle Berry isn't being coerced. Halle Berry is her real name, and the Woke know where she works.

Halle Berry though? If her career survived Catwoman, what could we hope to do to her?

Finally, a substantive counterargument!

What I wrote was clearly parody. Sadly, I have no idea if you are joking or not.

 

[Bomb#20]

Rowling is the wealthiest and most powerful author now living. What deprivations are you referring to, exactly?

Yes, the artist who is too powerful and too wealthy for the Woke to strip of her career is the same artist who was open about her un-Woke-ness. Probably just a coincidence.

(Also, of course, Rowling doesn't need anyone's permission to continue to produce and sell her artwork. If publishing companies get pushed into treating her as toxic she can just buy one. In contrast, actresses worth $90 million still need movie studios, producers and directors if they like being in blockbusters. If Berry'd told the Woke to go to hell over this role she'd probably have lost it anyway, because the protesters could have gone after the filmmakers.)

If you told Charles Darwin "I don't believe that your statements about evolution are valid, because scientists would clearly be angry with you if you stopped making them; you are very clearly the slave of a vocal minority of educated people and can no longer be trusted to know your own mind", he would laugh you off his porch and tell you to lay off the laudanum for a few months.

Um, that would be because that vocal minority of educated people weren't Darwinists until after Darwin persuaded them. The only scientist with a personal stake in Darwin making those statements would have loved it if Darwin stopped making them -- then Wallace would have gotten all the credit for the theory he and Darwin co-invented.

 

[Bomb#20]

Finally, a substantive counterargument!

What I wrote was clearly parody. Sadly, I have no idea if you are joking or not.

Yes, I got that. In case it wasn't clear, my post was a critique of KT's post, not yours. I quoted your post because you introduced a relevant fact my counterargument to KT relied on.

(Although, as it happens, your Catwoman point actually was a better argument than anything KT or JH or Politesse posted. )

 

[Metaphor]

Yeah, funny how anonymity makes people more willing to speak truth to power. If the Woke knew Metaphor's and my real names and where we worked then it's entirely plausible that some of their hotheads would be libeling us to our bosses and trying to get us fired. That's the whole reason doxing is a thing. That's why only an idiot would think that "the little guys like Metaphor and Bomb" not having been silenced qualifies as evidence that Halle Berry isn't being coerced. Halle Berry is her real name, and the Woke know where she works.

The Woke have already come for me. I criticised somebody (a friend of a friend) on Facebook for cheering on a meme showing someone being punched in the face. Well, my Facebook details were not set to private (they are now) so he contacted my employer, and HR told me somebody had contacted them. I saved the screenshots of the interactions.

Of course, my HR is Not Yet Crazy and they agreed that me criticising people for encouraging others to punch people in the face wasn't me being a Nazi or me defending a Nazi.

My Facebook details are all set to private now and I comment on nothing, except for 'liking' the photos of my nieces and nephews. The Woke did cause me a sleepless night when I got the email from HR about my 'social media use', so they have that little victory.

 

[Politesse]

"The Woke": anyone who disapproves of you?

There used to be this thing called adulthood, which came after childhood. Dealing with interpersonal conflicts in a mature way rather than sulking and trying to blame vaguely defined international conspiracies for your problems was one of its many characteristics.

 

[Metaphor]

"The Woke": anyone who disapproves of you?

No. Plenty of people disapprove of me. Islamists would throw me off a high building, and they are not "Woke".

There used to be this thing called adulthood, which came after childhood. Dealing with interpersonal conflicts in a mature way rather than sulking and trying to blame vaguely defined international conspiracies for your problems was one of its many characteristics.

Dealing with conflict in a mature way? So you consider a Woke social media pile-on "mature"? Woke cancel culture "mature"?

You consider somebody I don't know contacting my employer in order to ruin my livelihood a 'mature' way to deal with interpersonal conflict, because he didn't like being told you shouldn't punch people in the face for speaking?

The Woke is not a 'vaguely defined international conspiracy'. The Woke are the people who have imbibed critical social justice and liked what went down. There's nothing conspiratorial about it.

People don't work from the shadows when they can do what they want with impunity in full sunlight.

 

[Politesse]

"The Woke": anyone who disapproves of you?

No. Plenty of people disapprove of me. Islamists would throw me off a high building, and they are not "Woke".

There used to be this thing called adulthood, which came after childhood. Dealing with interpersonal conflicts in a mature way rather than sulking and trying to blame vaguely defined international conspiracies for your problems was one of its many characteristics.

Dealing with conflict in a mature way? So you consider a Woke social media pile-on "mature"? Woke cancel culture "mature"?

The Woke is not a 'vaguely defined international conspiracy'. The Woke are the people who have imbibed critical social justice and liked what went down. There's nothing conspiratorial about it.

People don't work from the shadows when they can do what they want with impunity in full sunlight.

There's no such goddamned thing as "the Woke". It's just an adjective.

 

[Metaphor]

No. Plenty of people disapprove of me. Islamists would throw me off a high building, and they are not "Woke".



Dealing with conflict in a mature way? So you consider a Woke social media pile-on "mature"? Woke cancel culture "mature"?

The Woke is not a 'vaguely defined international conspiracy'. The Woke are the people who have imbibed critical social justice and liked what went down. There's nothing conspiratorial about it.

People don't work from the shadows when they can do what they want with impunity in full sunlight.

There's no such goddamned thing as "the Woke". It's just an adjective.

It may surprise you that adjectives describe things that are real.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Has no one ever explained to you how analogies work? The idea is to exhibit two unlike situations and point out an interesting parallel aspect of the two. If an analogy were automatically invalid simply because some other aspect of the situations are nonparallel, then the only valid analogy for anything would be itself.


Um, "getting a few bad reviews" is hardly the risk she'd have been running if she'd declined to recite Woke pieties.

And you've still presented no actual evidence to support your accusation that Berry is lying.about her true feelings on the matter.

Now there's that reading comprehension problem of yours flaring up again. Neither A.M. nor I accused Berry of lying; and you have already been corrected on this point. We offered no opinion as to her true feelings about the matter. It was you who did that. So why are you putting words in other people's mouths?

So if she says she disagrees with them, they'll take her words at face value, and if she says anything else, it is under duress and she agrees with what they believe.

Literacy. Look into it.

Here's another analogy for you guys' edification. Agnosticism has been aptly defined as "I don't know if there's a God; and you don't know either." A.M. and I didn't make any claim about what Ms. Berry agrees with or about what she is or isn't "fine with". Politesse did that. Not being a believer in ESP, I asked if he had any evidence. You know, that thing freethinkers tend to care about? The only evidence he offered was a manifestly implausible claim that he'd asked her. Since Politesse has not asked Ms. Berry (in private, off-the-record, with plausible deniability) if she's fine with it, he doesn't know whether she's fine with it. Neither do you. Neither does A.M. Neither do I. See how it works?

So all we have to go by is what was released. Understood. Don’t believe anything that you don’t want to.

 

[Elixir]

No. Plenty of people disapprove of me. Islamists would throw me off a high building.

Hardly a supporting fact.

There's no such goddamned thing as "the Woke". It's just an adjective.

It may surprise you that adjectives describe things that are real.

Yeah, that's why liberpublicans are known as "The Stupid".

 

[Metaphor]

Hardly a supporting fact.

I do not define everybody who opposes me as "Woke" by the simple fact that people who nobody would dream as describing as "Woke" oppose me. This is a simple fact.

 

[KeepTalking]

Recourse to vagueness, since you know how stupid your analogy would sound if you compared a getting a few bad reviews to being beaten to death. And you've still presented no actual evidence to support your accusation that Berry is lying.about her true feelings on the matter.

Haven't you heard? Woke is the new McCarthyism, only 10 times worse, so obviously this is extreme duress, and is tantamount to torture.

You can tell how bad it is by how "The Woke" (scare quotes for effect) have totally silenced the voice of outlets like the Daily Mail, not to mention the little guys like Metaphor and Bomb. They have been so cancelled, it is sickening to watch. The horror!

There are different degrees of duress of course. The Woke do use coercion to suppress speech. That should be obvious.

It is not obvious, and I do not agree that "The Woke" can suppress speech in any meaningful way. Let me know when it happens that we are governed by "The Woke", and woke government actually begins to suppress speech, then I will be concerned. Right now I am much more concerned about the fascists in control of the US government, and the statements that their Dear Leader has made that he would very much like to suppress the speech of those who he does not like, including those he deems to be"woke".

 

[KeepTalking]

It depends on what you mean, but in general I think the creative talent (the screenwriter, the director, the casting director) should decide for themselves.

It is interesting that you do not include the actor/actress as creative talent who can decide for themselves. Why isn't Halle Barry qualified to make her own decision in that regard?

 

[Metaphor]

It depends on what you mean, but in general I think the creative talent (the screenwriter, the director, the casting director) should decide for themselves.

It is interesting that you do not include the actor/actress as creative talent who can decide for themselves. Why isn't Halle Barry qualified to make her own decision in that regard?

How do you mean? She had decided for herself to take the role, and the Woke objected, and now she's not taking it.

 

[KeepTalking]

Funny story about that -- turns out that during the original McCarthyism period, American communists weren't all starving to death from being barred from earning a living. Rather, certain industries had campaigns to drive communists out. Most infamously, the movie industry.

No shit, Sherlock. That is exactly why I brought McCarthyism up. It was a case in which actors and actresses lost their livelihood due to the actions of people in positions of power. A sitting US Senator used his power to punish those he did not agree with politically. This is not that. This is normal, everyday citizens simply making a convincing argument to an actress that she should not take a certain role. If this were the POTUS threatening Helle Barry with the loss of her livelihood for taking the role, or pressuring the studio to blackball her for taking the role, I would be right beside your decrying the injustice of what is happening.

The Daily Mail is actually one of ours. We use it to lure out wrongthinkers like moths to a flame. Our operatives haven't been able to locate the other two to take them to the reeducation camp.

Yeah, funny how anonymity makes people more willing to speak truth to power. If the Woke knew Metaphor's and my real names and where we worked then it's entirely plausible that some of their hotheads would be libeling us to our bosses and trying to get us fired. That's the whole reason doxing is a thing. That's why only an idiot would think that "the little guys like Metaphor and Bomb" not having been silenced qualifies as evidence that Halle Berry isn't being coerced. Halle Berry is her real name, and the Woke know where she works.

Only a complete and utter fucking moron would think that the situation described in the OP is in any way similar to McCarthyism. Yet here we are.

 

[KeepTalking]

It depends on what you mean, but in general I think the creative talent (the screenwriter, the director, the casting director) should decide for themselves.

It is interesting that you do not include the actor/actress as creative talent who can decide for themselves. Why isn't Halle Barry qualified to make her own decision in that regard?

How do you mean?

You did not include the actor/actress in your list of those who are should be able to decide for themselves: "(the screenwriter, the director, the casting director)".

She had decided for herself to take the role, and the Woke objected, and now she's not taking it.

So, she is allowed to make initial decision, but she is not allowed to change her mind, which actors and actresses do all the fucking time? How charitable of you to allow her that much.

 

[Metaphor]

You did not include the actor/actress in your list of those who are should be able to decide for themselves: "(the screenwriter, the director, the casting director)".

Well of course she can decide for herself if she wants to take a role offered to her.

She can't decide to take a role that isn't offered to her by the production.

So, she is allowed to make initial decision, but she is not allowed to change her mind, which actors and actresses do all the fucking time? How charitable of you to allow her that much.

I did not say she wasn't allowed to change her mind.

 

[KeepTalking]

Yeah, funny how anonymity makes people more willing to speak truth to power. If the Woke knew Metaphor's and my real names and where we worked then it's entirely plausible that some of their hotheads would be libeling us to our bosses and trying to get us fired. That's the whole reason doxing is a thing. That's why only an idiot would think that "the little guys like Metaphor and Bomb" not having been silenced qualifies as evidence that Halle Berry isn't being coerced. Halle Berry is her real name, and the Woke know where she works.

The Woke have already come for me. I criticised somebody (a friend of a friend) on Facebook for cheering on a meme showing someone being punched in the face. Well, my Facebook details were not set to private (they are now) so he contacted my employer, and HR told me somebody had contacted them. I saved the screenshots of the interactions.

Of course, my HR is Not Yet Crazy and they agreed that me criticising people for encouraging others to punch people in the face wasn't me being a Nazi or me defending a Nazi.

My Facebook details are all set to private now and I comment on nothing, except for 'liking' the photos of my nieces and nephews. The Woke did cause me a sleepless night when I got the email from HR about my 'social media use', so they have that little victory.

So, what you are saying is that this person actually had no power to do the thing that they were trying to do to you, just like "The Woke" in your OP had no power over Halle Barry, other than that of a convincing (to her) argument.

That really puts things in perspective, and shows just how off base your OP actually is.

 

[KeepTalking]

You did not include the actor/actress in your list of those who are should be able to decide for themselves: "(the screenwriter, the director, the casting director)".

Well of course she can decide for herself if she wants to take a role offered to her.

She can't decide to take a role that isn't offered to her by the production.

What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that "The Woke" should have pressured the screenwriter, director, or casting director to rescind the offer to her instead, and that if they had done that you would have been fine with it?

So, she is allowed to make initial decision, but she is not allowed to change her mind, which actors and actresses do all the fucking time? How charitable of you to allow her that much.

I did not say she wasn't allowed to change her mind.

Then what point were you trying to make when you made your response in the following exchange?

You did not include the actor/actress in your list of those who are should be able to decide for themselves: "(the screenwriter, the director, the casting director)".

She had decided for herself to take the role, and the Woke objected, and now she's not taking it.

 

[Politesse]

No. Plenty of people disapprove of me. Islamists would throw me off a high building, and they are not "Woke".



Dealing with conflict in a mature way? So you consider a Woke social media pile-on "mature"? Woke cancel culture "mature"?

The Woke is not a 'vaguely defined international conspiracy'. The Woke are the people who have imbibed critical social justice and liked what went down. There's nothing conspiratorial about it.

People don't work from the shadows when they can do what they want with impunity in full sunlight.

There's no such goddamned thing as "the Woke". It's just an adjective.

It may surprise you that adjectives describe things that are real.

Yes. In this case, race hysteria and paranoid fantasies of persecution.