If Biden Wins....

[ideologyhunter]

When they go low, thousands of voters are scrubbed off lists, polling places vanish, one drop box supposedly serves millions of voters in big metro areas, voters stand in line for six, eight hours, voting applications can be thrown out if a hyphen is either placed or not placed in a last name, voting registration drives can be subjected to draconian penalties if "violations" are detected...there can be no doubt that these folks have had think tanks going for 40+ years, full of weasels who know how to game the system. If going high includes practical, hard-edged responses to the kind of anti-vote horrors we've seen in NC, GA, and TX, for starters, then let's go high. If not, let's not lose by 'going high'.

 

[Worldtraveller]

And yet, we've already got several supposedly 'left' on this forum (sohy, Harry, and a few others) decrying how bad or radical it would be actually try to push through a even slightly progressive agenda.

With 'supporters' like that, I can see why so many actual progressives take the route of the Berniebros and vote for anarchy.

 

[Elixir]

And yet, we've already got several supposedly 'left' on this forum (sohy, Harry, and a few others) decrying how bad or radical it would be actually try to push through a even slightly progressive agenda.

With 'supporters' like that, I can see why so many actual progressives take the route of the Berniebros and vote for anarchy.

How does one vote for anarchy? That's a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron. Makes my head hurt. Abstention isn't a vote.
Show me a candidate with an actual plan for anarchy and I'd consider that plan. I'm sure it would go something like:

a) Acquire an Island, preferably the size of a small continent in a temperate climate zone.
b) Go there.
c) See what happens.

I might vote for them.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Just hope that your large island wasn't formerly known as the American Midwest.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Just hope that your large island wasn't formerly known as the American Midwest.

Naw, the midwest used to be The Great Inland Ocean. But the leftermost half of Colorado....

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If the Democrats descend to their level that level will be all there is, period.

I at least admire and respect the sentiment behind that.
"When They Go Low, We Go High" and all that, but, at some point in 2020, I abandoned that ideal.

The problem with it is that it's lofty and principled and morally superior and will result in you losing to the cheaters each time, every time.
I'm kinda tired of boxing by the rules and fighting fair against a cheater who's paying off the referee, snuck a brick into their gloves, and made sure YOUR supporters weren't allowed into the arena. I used to think it was better to fight fair and lose, even to a cheater--and now I think it just makes you a fucking loser.

If Biden wins (and Dems control Senate) I hope he crams about 8 or 9 30-year-old far-lefty judges onto the Supreme Court, and I don't want to hear a goddamned PEEP about it from Fox and Friends.

The problem is if everyone goes low then low is all you have. Whether it's from the left or right doesn't really matter.

Besides, all we need to do is undo the Republican dirty tricks. Without their vote suppression and gerrymandering they're not going to be a serious power.

 

[Harry Bosch]

And yet, we've already got several supposedly 'left' on this forum (sohy, Harry, and a few others) decrying how bad or radical it would be actually try to push through a even slightly progressive agenda.

With 'supporters' like that, I can see why so many actual progressives take the route of the Berniebros and vote for anarchy.

I didn't say that! Biden has moved left. But let's win the election first! And the dems can't become the little tent party. We need to open to moderates and the left. And everyone in between.

 

[Elixir]

... the dems can't become the little tent party.

The example of Chris Christy argues that they can so. The Republicans are poised to become the NO tent party. All that needs to happen is a good old fashioned airing of the truth.

 

[Harry Bosch]

... the dems can't become the little tent party.

The example of Chris Christy argues that they can so. The Republicans are poised to become the NO tent party. All that needs to happen is a good old fashioned airing of the truth.

I think that republicans have become the no tent party for a long time. Rhinos are hated. We have DINOs also. But our Dino movement is much smaller. But here's the deal: republicans don't need a big tent. Then can win elections without a majority due to the EC, gerrymandering, voter suppression and just outright guile and boldness (ie supreme court). I also think that republicans are far more motivated to vote than people on the left. I think that it's mostly due to their religion and their desire to rid the world of abortion (and gay rights, teaching science, and other crazy beliefs). But as tragic as it is to have the left lose the supreme court for a generation or so, maybe this will motivate the left?

 

[Elixir]

I also think that republicans are far more motivated to vote than people on the left.

I'll take some issue (without great force of conviction) with that part of your (otherwise inarguable) post. By all appearances Democrats are coming out to vote in unprecedented numbers and seem far more motivated than their trumpsucking counterparts. We'll see on election day.
I will be unsurprised if the Republican attempt to mobilize their morons to go "observe" at the polls actually results in nothing more than a few droolers watching Republicans standing in long long lines while almost all Democrats have already voted. Some of them might even say "fuck it, I'm hungry and I'm going home", since they have already been reassured that if agent orange loses there will be a coup to reinstate him.

as tragic as it is to have the left lose the supreme court for a generation or so, maybe this will motivate the left?

They may well "pack the court", and if they do I will be fine with that. But they'll need the Senate and a lot of steps to prevent the un-doing of whatever they do.

 

[ZiprHead]

I will be fine with the democrats packing the courts. Republicans have been doing it when they stated not considering any of Obama's court picks.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I will be fine with the democrats packing the courts. Republicans have been doing it when they stated not considering any of Obama's court picks.

I totally understand your thinking here. The republicans found a way to steal the pick. And now they will control the court for the next 30 years. Incredibly unfair. However, to pack the courts will essentially destroy the court - make it completely at the will of the current president and current senate each two years. This means that our government, which has credibility due to seperation of powers, will lose one vital check on the power of the President and Congress.

 

[ZiprHead]

I will be fine with the democrats packing the courts. Republicans have been doing it when they stated not considering any of Obama's court picks.

I totally understand your thinking here. The republicans found a way to steal the pick. And now they will control the court for the next 30 years. Incredibly unfair. However, to pack the courts will essentially destroy the court - make it completely at the will of the current president and current senate each two years. This means that our government, which has credibility due to seperation of powers, will lose one vital check on the power of the President and Congress.

There's more courts than just the supreme court in question. McConnell blocked hundreds of lower court judges under the under the Obama administration. Trump has been filling those positions now with many times wildly unqualified picks. The number of court picks under Trump has set a new record.

The credibility has long been gone and it was done by the republicans.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I will be fine with the democrats packing the courts. Republicans have been doing it when they stated not considering any of Obama's court picks.

I totally understand your thinking here. The republicans found a way to steal the pick. And now they will control the court for the next 30 years. Incredibly unfair. However, to pack the courts will essentially destroy the court - make it completely at the will of the current president and current senate each two years. This means that our government, which has credibility due to seperation of powers, will lose one vital check on the power of the President and Congress.

There's more courts than just the supreme court in question. McConnell blocked hundreds of lower court judges under the under the Obama administration. Trump has been filling those positions now with many times wildly unqualified picks. The number of court picks under Trump has set a new record.

The credibility has long been gone and it was done by the republicans.

Totally agree. It's even worse than how you portray it. It's criminal. What we have today is a judiciary that will be a great check on democratic administrations; no judicial check on republican administrations for the next 30 years. But I fear that packing the court will completely eliminate all checks. Not many good options.

 

[ZiprHead]

There's more courts than just the supreme court in question. McConnell blocked hundreds of lower court judges under the under the Obama administration. Trump has been filling those positions now with many times wildly unqualified picks. The number of court picks under Trump has set a new record.

The credibility has long been gone and it was done by the republicans.

Totally agree. It's even worse than how you portray it. It's criminal. What we have today is a judiciary that will be a great check on democratic administrations; no judicial check on republican administrations for the next 30 years. But I fear that packing the court will completely eliminate all checks. Not many good options.

Fear is the mind-killer.

 

[Toni]

I will be fine with the democrats packing the courts. Republicans have been doing it when they stated not considering any of Obama's court picks.

I totally understand your thinking here. The republicans found a way to steal the pick. And now they will control the court for the next 30 years. Incredibly unfair. However, to pack the courts will essentially destroy the court - make it completely at the will of the current president and current senate each two years. This means that our government, which has credibility due to seperation of powers, will lose one vital check on the power of the President and Congress.

There's more courts than just the supreme court in question. McConnell blocked hundreds of lower court judges under the under the Obama administration. Trump has been filling those positions now with many times wildly unqualified picks. The number of court picks under Trump has set a new record.

The credibility has long been gone and it was done by the republicans.

I don't live in KY and never have, but if anyone here is inclined to throw some money at a campaign, I think that Amy McGrath would be a vast improvement over McConnell. NO one should ever be able to block legislation the way that he has for years.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If Biden wins, will the Democrats be able to put the Antifa genie back in the bottle?

 

[ZiprHead]

If Biden wins, will the Democrats be able to put the Antifa genie back in the bottle?

You seem to be implying the democrats are the ones that let it out.

 

[Elixir]

If Biden wins, will the Democrats be able to put the Antifa genie back in the bottle?

You seem to be implying the democrats are the ones that let it out.

If Dems are put in power and make it clear that they will come down hard on the kind of right wing terrorism that Trump has been aiding and abetting, "antifa" will pretty much cease to exist.
I don't recall them being a massive problem during the Obama administration, for that matter.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If Biden wins, will the Democrats be able to put the Antifa genie back in the bottle?

If the excesses of the right are stopped the Antifa problem will go away on it's own. It's a reaction to what's happening in America.