Nonwhites liking white racist politicians

[repoman]

The thing is that maybe that women loves rap and does it all the time, whereas Despacito Biden would do it for pandering purposes. Even Harris barely knows anything about rap as she tries to be cool.

I voted for Biden at any rate.

 

[Mumbles]

The thing is that maybe that women loves rap and does it all the time, whereas Despacito Biden would do it for pandering purposes. Even Harris barely knows anything about rap as she tries to be cool.

I voted for Biden at any rate.

Biden playing Despacito after being introduced by Luis Fonsi (known for, among other songs, Despacito) strikes me as rather normal joking on the campaign trail. And trying to shame Kamala Harris for supposedly not knowing hip hop is just never going to get you anywhere.

RE: The thread title, there's not much in the way of change here. Mostly it's older Texan latinos being entirely ignored by the DNC, along with absurd misinformation from a few actors (eg. "Black Lives Matter practices witchcraft!"). Dolt 45 more or less got flattened in black and Native American communities from what I've seen. Of course you'll have people who always vote GOP, or really hate abortion, and so forth. But it's still 9-1 lopsided voting preference overall.

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | Latinos can be racist, too. My community shows how. - The Washington Post

As the daughter of Cuban refugees, I was raised to resist oppression and champion liberty. But when the Black Lives Matter movement roared into South Florida, asking us to end systemic racism and police brutality, I was caught off guard. I hadn’t fully realized the subtle ways that racism thrives in Miami, my hometown, a place dominated by a white Latino supermajority. We are a community built by people who have fled despotism in our home countries, yet we have ignored injustice in black neighborhoods a few miles away. And I — educated, liberal, supposedly enlightened — have been as guilty as anyone.

It shouldn’t be this way. Latinos have forever had a tangled history with race: After all, we come in all shades of melanin.

Right-wingers jumped up and down on AOC for saying "Latinos are black", but they quoted her out of context. That was a part of her saying that Latinos are native and Latinos are European - that Latinos are a mixture of all of these. She noted that in Puerto Rico, people often distinguish between "pelo bueno" and "pelo malo", "good hair" and "bad hair", straight hair and tightly-curled Negroid hair.

The Latino experience in Miami-Dade is unusual for the United States. We make up a majority of the area’s population — 71 percent. But within that group, nearly 90 percent of us identify as white, while only about 3 percent identify as black. And far too many Latinos in Miami-Dade simply choose to preserve their white privilege, shrugging off discrimination around them.

There is indifference, or outright hostility, to the Black Lives Matter movement online, in conversations and on the streets among many Latinos. ...

Then there are the Latinos who are outright opposed to the efforts of Black Lives Matter. Miami is one of the few places where you’ll regularly see “Cubans for Trump” counterprotests. ...

But from my own experiences, I know that Miami Latinos are not immune. ...

I never thought much about it, and never really saw myself as racist. ...

Then a lot of stereotypes of black people. Like "Ese trabajo es de negro" ("This work is for black people") about some awful jobs.

 

[lpetrich]

Why? Because Miami-Dade’s rare bubble of Latino empowerment, which includes Latino billionaires, a U.S. senator, artists, business titans, judges and celebrities, has desensitized us. As a white Latina here, I never considered myself a minority. I spoke Spanish and English freely. I was proud of my Cuban-ness and our role in shaping modern-day Miami. If some non-Hispanics bristled, they could leave. Many did, sprinting to English-speaking counties north of here, and that was fine with us. We are the establishment now.

Our hard-earned power and influence, though, have emotionally severed us from our origin story. We Cubans escaped Fidel Castro and embraced the freedoms he had shredded: the right to speak and read freely, own property and businesses, hold legitimate elections and — especially — protest the government.

And got a heck of a lot of assistance in getting started in the US, both from the Federal Government and from Cubans already in the US.

Study Finds 54% of Cubans Think They Are White

It found that 54% of Cubans living in Miami-Dade think they are White. Researchers believe this explains why Cuban voters were about twice as likely as non-Cuban Latinos to vote for Donald Trump.

That's a part of it. Another part of it is their relative affluence. This is likely a consequence of being victims of Communism, since that has made right-wing politicians willing to assist them and make them welfare royalty.

 

[lpetrich]

The case of the white Cubans | Discover Magazine

But Cuban Americans are somewhat a special case. The vast majority, specifically, 85 percent, identify as white. This is a higher proportion than the number of self-identified whites in Cuba, and a function of the skewed nature of the migration out of Cuba socially and economically. By and large the white elite of the island fled Castro's revolution to a far greater extent than the black lower classes. And contrary to American stereotypes of Latin American ease and openness about race, Cuba was a relatively stratified society, albeit not characterized by hypodescent. Slavery was not abolished on the island until 1884. Additionally, Cuba did experience a relatively large wave of Spanish immigration in the early 20th century.

Reconstructing the Population Genetic History of the Caribbean - very mixed.

 

[southernhybrid]

This is what is under the surface about the wokes overestimating that everyone else agrees with them:

Highly irrelevant to this thread, given that the Democratic party is very far from "woke". They nominated an establishment white male boomer who could have been elected as a Republican for most of his career, and is exactly the kind of person likely to try and do a rap song to try and connect with a young racially diverse crowd. Many on the left refused to vote for Biden (1/3 of eligible voters didn't vote), and those that did only did so to oppose someone so vile an devoid of any human decency that they held their nose and allied with classic liberals which many on the left regard as just slightly less evil. Choosing to ally with the opposition to a party that aggressively courts and promotes xenophobia, racism, misogyny, LGBT bigotry, religious hatred, and antiscience theocratic neofascism doesn't require that one be "woke".

The only way that video is relevant is that there sadly are some people whose core values and interests are more aligned with classic liberalism and the Dems, but are also so dangerously stupid to be influenced by alt-right propaganda that uses videos like this "wokeness" as though it has meaningful consequential differences between electing Biden vs. Trump that overshadow that actual consequential difference of that choice.

Biden isn't a Boomer. He is about 4 years too old to be a boomer. Harris is a boomer. She was born in 1964, the last year of the boomer generation. The boomer generation started in 1946. Biden is a member of the "silent generation".

I. have never seen Biden as anything but moderately left of center, but he does understand the art of compromise. We needed someone who understands that in these very difficult times. Plus, unlike many other politicians, Biden can admit that he's made mistakes. It takes a wise person to be able to do that. Some of the things he's supported in the past didn't work out as expected. BFD! Isn't that always the case in politics? He is a decent honest person, unlike the current president. Best of all, he has experience and understands how government works. Imo, we couldn't have done much better at this particular time and imo, he was the only one who had the ability to beat Trump.

And, who the fuck said that Democrats were "woke"? Woke is a goofy slang term. Democrats have always been an extremely diverse party. Some are on the fringes of the left. Some are center left. Some are left of center and some are right of center. While I think that's what makes the party the better one, it also makes it more difficult to get Democrats to agree on things. But, I'd rather support a party like that, then one that is made up of sheep who will march lock step along with their leader, regardless of how dangerous and incompetent the leader might be. So, I respectfully disagree with your opinion. And, I'm really sorry that so many people are trying to redefine what is meant by right wing or left wing.

I just met a friend in a local park today, who is much younger than me, and who is quite a bit to the left of me. While Biden wasn't her first choice in the primaries, she said she was very happy to support him. She understands that compromise is the only way that things get done. Those who don't vote because they don't like either candidate are stupid. There is always one candidate who is far better than the alternative. Too bad, some people are unable to come to terms with that reality.

And, let me add, that the reason, I'm not as far to the left as I was at a younger age, is because I've become a realist. Explain to me exactly how some of the dreams of those further to the Left can be accomplished and I'm in. Our country is very diverse and it takes compromise to make progress. We are lucky that we still have some social programs like SS, M'care, M'caid, SNAP, subsidized housing etc. These programs do need to be expanded, but it takes a lot of work just to keep them intact, considering that we have an alternative party that would like to cut them back or destroy them.

 

[Emily Lake]

Nonwhite Voters Are Not Immune to Right-Wing Populism - "From Toronto’s Rob Ford to Donald Trump, racist candidates attract nonwhite support. What gives?"

It doesn't seem like that difficult of a question. Maybe race isn't the single most important topic to everyone.

 

[Emily Lake]

Weird question, from my POV. Mexican-Americans were always assumed to be Republican when I was growing up, and it's still in the air a bit,there's a strong generational divide on how important religious issues like abortion are for individual voters. A person can care more about more issues than just one.

Refugees, I have found, often gravitate toward the politicians who are taking the firmest stance against the regime they are escaping, regardless of party affiliation. The DNC may have been shocked to lose Florida, but they really shouldn't be. The reaction ex-Cubans have toward the word "socialism" is not some new thing invented last month, it's been a consistent theme.

Better said than my quip was.

 

[Emily Lake]

That's a part of it. Another part of it is their relative affluence. This is likely a consequence of being victims of Communism, since that has made right-wing politicians willing to assist them and make them welfare royalty.

Wait, backup. So now Cubans are the welfare queens?

 

[lpetrich]

Nonwhite Voters Are Not Immune to Right-Wing Populism - "From Toronto’s Rob Ford to Donald Trump, racist candidates attract nonwhite support. What gives?"

It doesn't seem like that difficult of a question. Maybe race isn't the single most important topic to everyone.

Emily Lake, are you saying that you would eagerly vote for a politician who thinks that you and your group are getting much more than you deserve, that you only got to where you are by affirmative action, that people of your group are lazy and criminal, etc.?

I'm saying eagerly here, instead of grumbling that one has to choose between someone who hates me and a Communist.

 

[lpetrich]

That's a part of it. Another part of it is their relative affluence. This is likely a consequence of being victims of Communism, since that has made right-wing politicians willing to assist them and make them welfare royalty.

Wait, backup. So now Cubans are the welfare queens?

Yes, they've gotten a lot of assistance, both from the Federal Government and from other Cubans.

 

[ronburgundy]

This is what is under the surface about the wokes overestimating that everyone else agrees with them:

Highly irrelevant to this thread, given that the Democratic party is very far from "woke". They nominated an establishment white male boomer who could have been elected as a Republican for most of his career, and is exactly the kind of person likely to try and do a rap song to try and connect with a young racially diverse crowd. Many on the left refused to vote for Biden (1/3 of eligible voters didn't vote), and those that did only did so to oppose someone so vile an devoid of any human decency that they held their nose and allied with classic liberals which many on the left regard as just slightly less evil. Choosing to ally with the opposition to a party that aggressively courts and promotes xenophobia, racism, misogyny, LGBT bigotry, religious hatred, and antiscience theocratic neofascism doesn't require that one be "woke".

The only way that video is relevant is that there sadly are some people whose core values and interests are more aligned with classic liberalism and the Dems, but are also so dangerously stupid to be influenced by alt-right propaganda that uses videos like this "wokeness" as though it has meaningful consequential differences between electing Biden vs. Trump that overshadow that actual consequential difference of that choice.

Biden isn't a Boomer. He is about 4 years too old to be a boomer. Harris is a boomer. She was born in 1964, the last year of the boomer generation. The boomer generation started in 1946. Biden is a member of the "silent generation".

You seem to have misinterpreted my post. You probably should look at the vid repoman posted to know what I was responding to. You are mostly arguing with something I wasn't implying. My point was that the Dem's aren't "woke", so having a problem with "wokes" doesn't explain preferring the GOP or Trump as repoman suggests.

That Biden is slightly too old to be a Boomer only reinforces my point that Biden is a old white male who'd be viewed negatively and out of touch if not outright racist by many of the "wokes" that repoman is complaining about.

I have never seen Biden as anything but moderately left of center, but he does understand the art of compromise.

For the record, I voted for him and in many ways prefer him to Sanders and the more left candidates he defeated. But his crime bills and his rhetoric of the 90's would be and is agreed with by the far right today and strongly opposed by nearly anyone that could be called "progressive". He did rather recently express regret on those policies, but my point still stands that for most of his career he was closer to the GOP of the 90's than the modern left or than Trump and his far right cult is to the GOP of the 90's. I'm not attacking Biden, I am dismissing repoman's implication that people who don't agree with the most radical elements of "woke" leftism would have a basis to reject the Dems for Trump.

And, who the fuck said that Democrats were "woke"?

Repoman's post assumes it, which is the assumption I am rejecting. The thread is about why people who might be expected to vote Dem would vote for the GOP and Trump. Repoman's argument is that the answer lies in people disagreeing with the "wokes", as though they are Biden's and Dem's base.

I just met a friend in a local park today, who is much younger than me, and who is quite a bit to the left of me. While Biden wasn't her first choice in the primaries, she said she was very happy to support him. She understands that compromise is the only way that things get done. Those who don't vote because they don't like either candidate are stupid. There is always one candidate who is far better than the alternative. Too bad, some people are unable to come to terms with that reality.

I agree with that completely. Which is why I can and did vote for Biden while acknowledging everything about him, including that he aligned with white supremacists in his anti-busing stance, and pushed crime bills that most of today's far right would endorse if his name wasn't on them.

And, let me add, that the reason, I'm not as far to the left as I was at a younger age, is because I've become a realist. Explain to me exactly how some of the dreams of those further to the Left can be accomplished and I'm in. Our country is very diverse and it takes compromise to make progress. We are lucky that we still have some social programs like SS, M'care, M'caid, SNAP, subsidized housing etc. These programs do need to be expanded, but it takes a lot of work just to keep them intact, considering that we have an alternative party that would like to cut them back or destroy them.

Again, I agree with all of that. I am not a leftist. I am closer to a classic liberal of the sort many on the left despise. I merely said that most leftist dislike Biden, and some chose to vote "the lesser evil" and some didn't vote for him, which proves the Dems are not the bastion of left "woke" that repoman's post implies.

 

[Derec]

As the daughter of Cuban refugees, I was raised to resist oppression and champion liberty. But when the Black Lives Matter movement roared into South Florida, asking us to end systemic racism and police brutality, I was caught off guard. I hadn’t fully realized the subtle ways that racism thrives in Miami, my hometown, a place dominated by a white Latino supermajority. We are a community built by people who have fled despotism in our home countries, yet we have ignored injustice in black neighborhoods a few miles away. And I — educated, liberal, supposedly enlightened — have been as guilty as anyone.

So anybody critical of #BLM is "racist"?

It shouldn’t be this way. Latinos have forever had a tangled history with race: After all, we come in all shades of melanin.

There is indifference, or outright hostility, to the Black Lives Matter movement online, in conversations and on the streets among many Latinos. ...

And for good reason.
1. #BLM is not about unjustified killings, but they protest justified ones too, including those involving armed perps like Patrick Kimmons, Walter Wallace or Kevin Peterson.
2. A lot of #BLM protests are violent: looting, vandalism, arson. Blocking highways, bridges etc. is also a favorite tactic. Surely a way to lose friends and alienate people!
3. The movement was started by self-described "trained Marxists".

Then there are the Latinos who are outright opposed to the efforts of Black Lives Matter. Miami is one of the few places where you’ll regularly see “Cubans for Trump” counterprotests. ...

That's a false dichotomy. One can be against Trump and against #BLM too.

 

[Derec]

Biden playing Despacito after being introduced by Luis Fonsi (known for, among other songs, Despacito)

He has other songs?

And trying to shame Kamala Harris for supposedly not knowing hip hop is just never going to get you anywhere.

Well, she did know that 2pac is still alive, lmao.

 

[Derec]

Most voted for Trump because the worked in the oil business and were worried that the Biden and the Dems would destroy the oil industry, which would put them out of work.

That's a credible fear actually. Yes, Biden is on the more moderate side. But even he was forced to back some form of ban on fracking. Which is insane. We need fracking because we get half our oil and 2/3 of our gas from hydraulically fractured wells. And yes, many of them are in Texas.

A smaller number seemed concerned about social issues like abortion. I think the fear of job loss explained why most of these folks changed parties.

Btw, my bro in law in of Arabic descent, and Trump certainly isn't a friend of Syrians or Lebanese, but my bro in law doesn't care if Trump is a racist, all he cares about is.....and I quote...."he put more money in my pocket.

Arabs are white though, so it's not racism. If anything, it's a negative view of parts o Arab culture and/or Muslim religion, and such a view is often justified (just look at the Muslim attacks in France, Germany and Austria over the last month!)

I assume that some of the very wealthy Black men in Atlanta feel the same way.

Yes, there are a lot of wealthy/well off blacks in Atlanta. Not sure how many are Trump fans though.

Cuban Americans have always tended to be conservative, so that's no great surprise that a good percentage of them supported Trump. They feel for the scary socialist label that Republicans painted the Dems with.

That has lately been a very easy job for Republicans, as many Dems are now proudly paint themselves that way.

I have a much harder time understanding why so many women continued to support Trump, a sexist man who has been accused of sexual assault by over 20 women. I guess it's just hard to understand why people vote the way they do. Some of us are one item voters.

That's just it. Most people are not one issue voters. Myself, I can't fathom how any man could vote for somebody as sexist as the piece of shit Colorado governor Jared Polis who infamously supports expelling male students accused of sexual assault even when it is only 20% likely they did it. However, many men did vote for him.

 

[Derec]

You are right - racist is used so indiscriminately and inconsistently that it is difficult to take seriously. "Racist" used to be taken to mean that someone believed that a race (usually their own) was superior to others. Now, the term has been watered down by snowflakes of all races to mean "bigot" or "identify by race".

Proving my point. Whites are accused of raicsm for criticizing "affirmative action" or #BLM but blacks get a pass even when they believe their race is superior to others, like Nation of Islam teaches.

 

[Derec]

Add to the list of ways not to make friends: describing legal obligations as "gifts" that the government "chooses" to grant, and should stop granting in the name of "fairness".

How we should classify these things is a matter for another thread I think.
But however you classify it, given the tax and other benefits Indians get from various federal and state laws, to say that they are somehow hard done by is outright Trumpian.

 

[fromderinside]

Maybe you should go to an Indian reservation sometime to see just how little the government gives a damn about what they've done to tribes they've forced to live in unlivable places. And Trump wants to limit that even more while removing rights to minerals and other resources in favor of business buddies.

 

[Politesse]

Add to the list of ways not to make friends: describing legal obligations as "gifts" that the government "chooses" to grant, and should stop granting in the name of "fairness".

How we should classify these things is a matter for another thread I think.
But however you classify it, given the tax and other benefits Indians get from various federal and state laws, to say that they are somehow hard done by is outright Trumpian.

Pretending that all Indians are "rich" because a scant handful are is the Trumpian bullshit in the room.

And it would not be wrong in any case, for Native folks to be wealthy, not even and indeed especially not if the reason was because we honored the treaty obligations we made in exchange for losing plenary rights over their own former territory and all of the wealth it might otherwise have generated for them. You betray your own racism when you assume that the mere existence of a wealthy Indian is proof of some iniquity on their part. No one is obligated to perform poverty for you. If the treaties we made were in any way fair, those with whom those treaties were made would all be quite wealthy, considering the gross income that has been extracted from their lands by the other involved party.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

need for immigrant labor

Maybe they don't want to be subjected to "an unrelenting stream of immigration."

What is "unrelenting" is the excess restriction on work visas and arbitrary limits and barriers to exclude immigrant workers who are in high demand from U.S. employers, thus preventing much production which could take place if companies could obtain the personnel they need.

The only ones who benefit from this are uncompetitive overpaid American crybabies who whine about the wage level, and as a result of this the whole nation is deprived of the benefits of the increased competition which is always good for the economy. More competition is never bad but always beneficial to the whole population, while it's only a few crybabies who benefit by restricting competition.