White Fragility author Robin DiAngelo was paid 70 percent more than a black woman for the same job

[Trausti]

People will still have their response to the name even when it disagrees with the resume.

With every response provides more evidence you will say anything to discredit social science research that comes up with conclusions that disagree with your beliefs.

Social science research has a well known replication problem. And null or controversial results tend not to be published at all.

 

[Trausti]

Race and Gender Effects on Employer Interest in Job Applicants: New Evidence from a Resume Field Experiment

 

[laughing dog]

People will still have their response to the name even when it disagrees with the resume.

With every response provides more evidence you will say anything to discredit social science research that comes up with conclusions that disagree with your beliefs.

Social science research has a well known replication problem. And null or controversial results tend not to be published at all.

Do you have a citation for your first claim. Your second claim is simply false.

 

[Trausti]

Social science research has a well known replication problem. And null or controversial results tend not to be published at all.

Do you have a citation for your first claim. Your second claim is simply false.

Are you shitting me? You’re spouting about social science research but are unaware of the replication crisis? Just put that in your browser. Have a go.

 

[laughing dog]

Social science research has a well known replication problem. And null or controversial results tend not to be published at all.

Do you have a citation for your first claim. Your second claim is simply false.

Are you shitting me? You’re spouting about social science research but are unaware of the replication crisis? Just put that in your browser. Have a go.

You made a claim about a well known reputation problem in social science research. Apparently it is not as well-known as you claim since I am moderately in social science research and have not heard of it. I have heard of some complaints in some areas, and I am aware of replication problems in science as well.

It is not up to me to substantiate your allegations of fact. So, either substantiate your claim or shut the fuck up.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

People will still have their response to the name even when it disagrees with the resume.

With every response provides more evidence you will say anything to discredit social science research that comes up with conclusions that disagree with your beliefs.

Where do we have a resume study that used names of the same educational level?

Edit: Trausti posted one that I hadn't heard of--and although it's a bit weak (it's hard to separate racial indication with socioeconomic indication) it seems to support my position.

 

[Trausti]

People will still have their response to the name even when it disagrees with the resume.

With every response provides more evidence you will say anything to discredit social science research that comes up with conclusions that disagree with your beliefs.

Where do we have a resume study that used names of the same educational level?

Do you think a study like that could be published if it showed first names associated with lower class Whites and Latinos also fielded lower interest?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you shitting me? You’re spouting about social science research but are unaware of the replication crisis? Just put that in your browser. Have a go.

You made a claim about a well known reputation problem in social science research. Apparently it is not as well-known as you claim since I am moderately in social science research and have not heard of it. I have heard of some complaints in some areas, and I am aware of replication problems in science as well.

It is not up to me to substantiate your allegations of fact. So, either substantiate your claim or shut the fuck up.

At least in general he's right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
Your ignorance is showing.

 

[Trausti]

Are you shitting me? You’re spouting about social science research but are unaware of the replication crisis? Just put that in your browser. Have a go.

You made a claim about a well known reputation problem in social science research. Apparently it is not as well-known as you claim since I am moderately in social science research and have not heard of it. I have heard of some complaints in some areas, and I am aware of replication problems in science as well.

It is not up to me to substantiate your allegations of fact. So, either substantiate your claim or shut the fuck up.

Heard of this loonie?

 

[laughing dog]

People will still have their response to the name even when it disagrees with the resume.

With every response provides more evidence you will say anything to discredit social science research that comes up with conclusions that disagree with your beliefs.

Where do we have a resume study that used names of the same educational level?

Do you mean "names perceived by bigots to have the same educational level"?

 

[laughing dog]

Are you shitting me? You’re spouting about social science research but are unaware of the replication crisis? Just put that in your browser. Have a go.

You made a claim about a well known reputation problem in social science research. Apparently it is not as well-known as you claim since I am moderately in social science research and have not heard of it. I have heard of some complaints in some areas, and I am aware of replication problems in science as well.

It is not up to me to substantiate your allegations of fact. So, either substantiate your claim or shut the fuck up.

At least in general he's right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
Your ignorance is showing.

Well, replication means different things to different people. For some it means using the same data to see if the results are replicated. For some it means using a different sized sample of the data to replicate the results. The former is a test of integrity and honesty. The second is a test of consistency of results. But different sized samples may give different levels of significance because that is the nature of sampling. Ideally, the sample size after some point should not make a big difference in the statistical outcome.

Furthermore, this "crisis" peaked in some fields 4 to 5 years ago- the areas reacted and have worked harder to reduce this issue.

Furthermore, the social sciences include a wide swathe of areas beyond psychology (the most commonly complained area).

So, Your ignorance is showing.

Not as much as yours.

 

[Emily Lake]

Just to be clear Loren...

If you were to see a resume for a Harvard graduate with top marks, excellent internship experience, and academic awards... You think it would be justifiable and acceptable to think that if the name at the top were "Darnell" they must be a poorer worker than if the name at the top were "David"?

Where does "Deborah" fall in your spectrum of guessing whether a person is "associated" with being an inferior employee on the basis of their name alone?

But that's not the sort of resume they're talking about.

Nice dismissal.

This was not a question about the study. This was a question to you, about your personal views.

So let's try again: Do YOU think it would justifiable to assume, all else being equal on an excellent resume, that "Darnell" must be an inferior employee to "David", even with the same education and achievements?

 

[Emily Lake]

People will still have their response to the name even when it disagrees with the resume.

This is you defending and justifying racist stereotypes and prejudice in hiring decisions.

 

[ruby sparks]

People will still have their response to the name even when it disagrees with the resume.

This is you defending and justifying racist stereotypes and prejudice in hiring decisions.

Unfortunately, you are wasting your time, because Loren is a racism denialist.

 

[Jarhyn]

At least somebody gets it!

The relationship I have seen measured is between black names and low education, but low education goes along with low socioeconomic status.

(And if I saw "Reginald" my first thought would be foreign rather than black.)

That article you linked does a pretty good job of making my point:



When you dig into the "evidence" of discrimination it's amazing how often you find socioeconomic factors unrelated to race involved--and how rarely you see any attempt to control for these. If there's good research why isn't it promoted instead of the crap?

That snippet you quoted has nothing whatsoever to the actual topic. The CV paper is not about the mothers or their education. The CVs had the education and work experience of the applicant. So that snippet has nothing whatsoever to do with discussion or your racist-based bogus criticism of the CV research.

But, once again, it provides more evidence that you will say anything to discredit social science research that disagrees with your beliefs.

People will still have their response to the name even when it disagrees with the resume.

Loren, I'm going to be absolutely level with you: this is absolutely racism. Not a little bit either. It's like when someone says "I'm not racist, but...".

It's not ambiguous or even unclear. It's just right out there, implying that someone having a response to someone's NAME could ever be a justifiable thing to allow of anyone for whom anyone would hold enduring respect for.

It creates a sort of economic predestination, a generational curse, that you tacitly accept, without objection, remedy, or redress.

This is one of those moments, and I say this honestly and without malice or hate or derision, but rather because I find myself actually caring about your well-being and integrity, that you need to read this post of yours a number of times and figure out why it is bad, and why you should feel bad for having thought it, let alone having said it.

I know you are capable of this introspection. I say this as someone who would see you one day as a friend. Please.

 

[Metaphor]

People will still have their response to the name even when it disagrees with the resume.

Loren, I'm going to be absolutely level with you: this is absolutely racism. Not a little bit either. It's like when someone says "I'm not racist, but...".

It's not ambiguous or even unclear. It's just right out there, implying that someone having a response to someone's NAME could ever be a justifiable thing to allow of anyone for whom anyone would hold enduring respect for.

It creates a sort of economic predestination, a generational curse, that you tacitly accept, without objection, remedy, or redress.

This is one of those moments, and I say this honestly and without malice or hate or derision, but rather because I find myself actually caring about your well-being and integrity, that you need to read this post of yours a number of times and figure out why it is bad, and why you should feel bad for having thought it, let alone having said it.

I know you are capable of this introspection. I say this as someone who would see you one day as a friend. Please.

Loren does not have to feel bad for things he thought, even if he was mistaken. Thoughts are not immoral, you woke puritan.

 

[laughing dog]

Thoughts are not immoral, you woke puritan.

Immoral simply means not conforming to norms of morality, so thoughts can be moral or immoral. Your claim is absurd.

 

[Jarhyn]

Thoughts are not immoral, you woke puritan.

Immoral simply means not conforming to norms of morality, so thoughts can be moral or immoral. Your claim is absurd.

Like seriously, if I think the "N-Word" in an invasive response to a person of color being obnoxious, loud, and imposing, I have a couple different internal responses available, the most significant of which being to ignore it, or self-chastise. If I ignore it, that signals that this is a fine way for me to be thinking. Assuming you don't want to be having that though pop up, having some response that makes having such thoughts onerous to have will be the prescription.

This implies that the thought itself can absolutely be immoral (that which you as a person do not wish to be).

What a thought cannot be is unethical (that which you ought not impose on others unilaterally), mostly because a thought unsaid doesn't actually impose on others.

I don't think norms enter into it, and will not accept such an imposition of "norms", as that is patently unethical to expect of me.

I expect people to be ethical. I respect people who are moral.

Metaphor frequently demonstrates an intractability when asked to do either thing, though.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Where do we have a resume study that used names of the same educational level?

Do you mean "names perceived by bigots to have the same educational level"?

The data on names vs educational level is solid. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it go away.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Just to be clear Loren...

If you were to see a resume for a Harvard graduate with top marks, excellent internship experience, and academic awards... You think it would be justifiable and acceptable to think that if the name at the top were "Darnell" they must be a poorer worker than if the name at the top were "David"?

Where does "Deborah" fall in your spectrum of guessing whether a person is "associated" with being an inferior employee on the basis of their name alone?

But that's not the sort of resume they're talking about.

Nice dismissal.

This was not a question about the study. This was a question to you, about your personal views.

So let's try again: Do YOU think it would justifiable to assume, all else being equal on an excellent resume, that "Darnell" must be an inferior employee to "David", even with the same education and achievements?

You fail to understand--I fully agree it's discrimination. I'm just saying it's discrimination based on low-education names rather than on race. Once again, race turns out to simply be a proxy for socioeconomic status.