Violent riots underway in Kenosha, WI

[laughing dog]

You sure about he was not supposed to have his children, and that would have been kidnapping?

The 911 call included the claim that Jacob Blake stole his baby mama's car keys. Kidnapping is a reasonable assumption under the circumstances.

Shootings should not be made based on assumptions.

In any case, if police tell you to stop, you stop. You don't take a knife and approach some kids.

There was no evidence he meant those children harm. So do you have a point?

Under these circumstances a white man would have been shot too.

You know this because you are well acquainted with the Kenosha area.

Note that plenty of white people get shot by police - it's just that there aren't riots afterwards.

Is it possible to not use a "whataboutism"?

 

[laughing dog]

The hate continues.

There was nothing hateful in that post.

It is pouring down now.

 

[Derec]

There is distinct difference between what is legal and what is moral.

True. And yet, the two often overlap. Especially when it comes to charging decisions as that is an inherently legal matter.

My observation was about the morality of their actions. The decision to not charge the officer was not the only moral decision to make.

It is immoral to charge somebody if the DA does not believe the person to be in fact guilty of the crime being alleged.
It is highly immoral to charge somebody simply to appease an angry mob.

Since there is no way that the DA thought shooting Jacob Blake was in fact criminal, it would have been immoral for him to charge the officer.

I am not a lawyer and neither are you. Nor are we experts in Wisconsin law. But sometimes it is the right thing to do to charge someone even if there is a low probability of conviction.

It would be the right thing based on what? Charging somebody with a crime is a legal decision. Unless the DA believes the officer to be guilty of the crime in question, charging is immoral. Even if you think officers behaved badly based on your own moral compass, it would be immoral to charge them with a crime if they did not break any laws.

 

[Derec]

It is pouring down now.

Thanks for the weather report. I guess.

 

[Derec]

Shootings should not be made based on assumptions.

Shooting decisions have to be made in real time, within a fraction of a second often.
There is no time to verify facts.

There was no evidence he meant those children harm. So do you have a point?

Except that he approached them with a knife? After being a subject of a 911 call and already having felony warrants? Really?

You know this because you are well acquainted with the Kenosha area.

This was not specific to the Kenosha area. You try pulling the same shit as Blake and your white ass will get himself shot anywhere in the US.

Is it possible to not use a "whataboutism"?

Not whataboutism, just pointing out the fact that is often ignored. People of all races get shot by police, and for the same reasons regardless of race.

 

[laughing dog]

Shooting decisions have to be made in real time, within a fraction of a second often.
There is no time to verify facts.

That does not justify shootings based on assumptions.

Except that he approached them with a knife? After being a subject of a 911 call and already having felony warrants? Really?

I forgot - "thugs" have no rights.

This was not specific to the Kenosha area.

Of course it is specific to the Kenosha area. That is where it occurred. It is delusional to claim otherwise.

You try pulling the same shit as Blake and your white ass will get himself shot anywhere in the US.

You can expect it to be true, but you don't know it. Hell, the cops waived that white fucktarded vigilante into Kenosha. I will use your tactic - no way a black guy with a gun gets waived into a riot by white police.

Not whataboutism, just pointing out the fact that is often ignored. People of all races get shot by police, and for the same reasons regardless of race.

It is an irrelevant whataboutism. No one is talking about other races or that the police only shoot black people.

 

[ZiprHead]

Killed multiple people on a single day, even.

So have #BLMers. Remember Micah Johnson?

But in any case, even if it was true that #BLMers killed only one person per day, is that really better given how many days #BLMers have rioted and what the cumulative death toll has been?

Micah Johnson was not BLM. He rejected them because they weren't radical enough for him.

 

[Derec]

Micah Johnson was not BLM. He rejected them because they weren't radical enough for him.

So he was on the fringe but he was still on that #BLM spectrum.

 

[Derec]

That does not justify shootings based on assumptions.

What you call "assumptions" are real-time decisions based on what is known at the time.
What would you make a shooting decision based on instead?

I forgot - "thugs" have no rights.

They certainly have no right to resist arrest for felony assault or refuse to drop the knife.

You can expect it to be true, but you don't know it. Hell, the cops waived that white fucktarded vigilante into Kenosha.

You mean the kid who came there to defend businesses from #BLM looters, rioters and arsonists?
They did not try to arrest him, so he could not have resisted. When they arrested him (for self-defense shooting of those felonious Antifa Krauts) he surrendered peacefully. Unlike Blake.

I will use your tactic - no way a black guy with a gun gets waived into a riot by white police.

Except that armed black #BLMers took over a city block in Atlanta for over a week this Summer with no repercussions until a little girl got murdered by them.

It is an irrelevant whataboutism. No one is talking about other races or that the police only shoot black people.

The post I was responding to claimed that Blake was only shot because he was black. So it's neither irrelevant nor an whataboutism.

 

[laughing dog]

It is immoral to charge somebody if the DA does not believe the person to be in fact guilty of the crime being alleged.
It is highly immoral to charge somebody simply to appease an angry mob.

Since there is no way that the DA thought shooting Jacob Blake was in fact criminal, it would have been immoral for him to charge the officer.

It would be immoral to not charge the office if DA thought the shooting was criminal but had a low probability of conviction or was afraid of hurting relations with the police.

I am not a lawyer and neither are you. Nor are we experts in Wisconsin law. But sometimes it is the right thing to do to charge someone even if there is a low probability of conviction.

It would be the right thing based on what?

If you thought it was a crime. Duh.

 

[laughing dog]

What you call "assumptions" are real-time decisions based on what is known at the time.
What would you make a shooting decision based on instead?

Observation and facts.

They certainly have no right to resist arrest for felony assault or refuse to drop the knife.

Non-responsive.

You mean the kid who came there to defend businesses from #BLM looters, rioters and arsonists?
They did not try to arrest him, so he could not have resisted. When they arrested him (for self-defense shooting of those felonious Antifa Krauts) he surrendered peacefully.

They waved in an armed vigilante.

Except that armed black #BLMers took over a city block in Atlanta for over a week this Summer with no repercussions until a little girl got murdered by them.

Not only is that another moronic whataboutism (the discussion about Kenosha not Atlanta), in your example, those people were not waved in by the police. I did like how you felt the need to have visuals of scary black people in your response.

The post I was responding to claimed that Blake was only shot because he was black. So it's neither irrelevant nor an whataboutism.

If the claim had been the police only shoot black people, you'd have a point. But that was not the claim, so your response was irrelevant and a "whataboutism".

 

[ZiprHead]

Micah Johnson was not BLM. He rejected them because they weren't radical enough for him.

So he was on the fringe but he was still on that #BLM spectrum.

Cute. Can we say you're on the fascist spectrum?

 

[lpetrich]

US police and public officials donated to Kyle Rittenhouse, data breach reveals | US news | The Guardian - "Officers and officials also donated to fundraisers for far-right activists and fellow officers accused of shooting black Americans"

A data breach at a Christian crowdfunding website has revealed that serving police officers and public officials have donated money to fundraisers for accused vigilante murderers, far-right activists, and fellow officers accused of shooting black Americans.

In many of these cases, the donations were attached to their official email addresses, raising questions about the use of public resources in supporting such campaigns.

...
One donation for $25, made on 3 September last year, was made anonymously, but associated with the official email address for Sgt William Kelly, who currently serves as the executive officer of internal affairs in the Norfolk police department in Virginia.

That donation also carried a comment, reading: “God bless. Thank you for your courage. Keep your head up. You’ve done nothing wrong.”

The comment continued: “Every rank and file police officer supports you. Don’t be discouraged by actions of the political class of law enforcement leadership.”

Sort of like all the "Blue Lives Matter" supporters who attacked Capitol cops in the Jan 6 attacks.

Proud Boys and other far-right groups raise millions via Christian funding site | The far right | The Guardian

A data breach from Christian crowdfunding site GiveSendGo has revealed that millions of dollars have been raised on the site for far-right causes and groups, many of whom are banned from raising funds on other platforms.

It also identifies previously anonymous high-dollar donors to far-right actors, some of whom enjoy positions of wealth, power or public responsibility.

Some of the biggest beneficiaries have been members of groups such as the Proud Boys, designated as a terrorist group in Canada, many of whose fundraising efforts were directly related to the 6 January attack on the United States Capitol.

 

[repoman]

Would you fire someone for donating to Rittenhouse, TFT-rssfeed Lpetrich?

 

[Toni]

Would you fire someone for donating to Rittenhouse, TFT-rssfeed Lpetrich?

Not lpetrich, but: I have no idea if that would be cause for termination under the terms of the police contract, but if this were someone under my command or that I was expected to serve with and trust: I’d definitely look at ways get get rid of anyone I knew who wrote such a letter of support.

Note: Rittenhouse was 17 at the time he killed two people. He obviously has a terrible, terrible mother and it is hard to imagine that his father is better. Because of his age and because his fucking mother drove him across state lines and supplied him with a firearm he could not legally possess, I think that this should all be taken into consideration. But the kid is absolutely permanently fucked up by the abysmal ‘parenting’ as well as the far, far worse adulation of racists. I sincerely hope that he is removed from the influence of his ‘parents’ and given a great deal of therapy as a part of whatever sentence he receives.

 

[Derec]

Note: Rittenhouse was 17 at the time he killed two people. He obviously has a terrible, terrible mother and it is hard to imagine that his father is better. Because of his age and because his fucking mother drove him across state lines and supplied him with a firearm he could not legally possess,

She didn't.

And he is innocent until proven guilty. Firing the cop for donating to him is abysmal and the cop should definitely sue.

Would you fire people for donating to Antifa/#BLM terrorists Colinford Mattis and Urooj Rahman who amassed more than half a millions dollars in donations?

 

[Derec]

Some good news from Kenosha.

Rusten Sheskey, Kenosha Officer Who Shot Jacob Blake, Will Not Face Discipline

Good! He did nothing wrong!

 

[Arctish]

Note: Rittenhouse was 17 at the time he killed two people. He obviously has a terrible, terrible mother and it is hard to imagine that his father is better. Because of his age and because his fucking mother drove him across state lines and supplied him with a firearm he could not legally possess,

She didn't.

And he is innocent until proven guilty. Firing the cop for donating to him is abysmal and the cop should definitely sue.

Would you fire people for donating to Antifa/#BLM terrorists Colinford Mattis and Urooj Rahman who amassed more than half a millions dollars in donations?

He was fired for violating department policy.

"I have reviewed the results of the internal investigation involving Lt. William Kelly," Norfolk City Manager Chip Filer said in a statement, according to Norfolk local news outlet WAVY. "Chief Larry Boone and I have concluded Lt. Kelly’s actions are in violation of City and departmental policies. His egregious comments erode the trust between the Norfolk Police Department and those they are sworn to serve. The City of Norfolk has a standard of behavior for all employees, and we will hold staff accountable."

If an officer or administrator of the Norfolk Police Dept. violated policy in any manner, they should face the consequences. If the violation is serious enough that his/her supervisors feel the department and community would be better served by terminating that person's employment, then that's what should happen.

 

[Derec]

UPDATE!

DOJ won't seek charges against the officer who shot Jacob Blake in Kenosha

Correct decision. I was fearing that given the biased tweets by Joe and Kamala sayin she was "proud" of St. Jacob that there would be pressure by them for DOJ to railroad Sheskey.

 

[Derec]

Update on one of the arson cases from the Kenosha #BLM riots.
Man who burned Kenosha furniture store during 2020 riots gets 3 1/3 years in prison

A man will serve 3⅓ years in prison for starting a fire that destroyed a family-run furniture store in Kenosha during unrest the day after Jacob Blake was shot.
Devon Vaughn, 23, of Racine, pleaded guilty in March to conspiring to commit arson.
Several buildings were set ablaze during rioting in 2020 that erupted in Kenosha following the police shooting of Blake, a Black man. Federal and local investigators were not able to file charges immediately but later released surveillance photos of suspects and offered rewards for information about the fires.
Vaughn also will be subject to two years of supervised release and have to pay more than $1.7 million in restitution after he serves his prison time.

Kind of a light sentence for arson, less than supposed mandatory minimum, but better than nothing.