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A New Conservative Party

Of course anything that will weaken the GOP is to be applauded, but don't fall for the canard that there are good Republicans and bad Republcians. Almost every single Republican, whether dumb voter or top pol, is a hateful greed-loving immoral asshole.

We are reminded of this when a co-founder of The Lincoln Project turns out to be a serial sex offender.

Is it coincidence that Dennis Hastert, who raped little boys and rose to be Speaker of the House, was a Republican? GOPsters try to mesmerize their dupes by treating a consensual blowjob or the minor transgressions of Al Franken as equivalent to the criminal rape of little boys, but of course it isn't.

The Republican Party has become a festering pus-filled ulcer infatuated with crimes and sins of every sort, and no redeeming quality. The highest aspiration it can have now is to return to its status of 17 years ago, described by
Garrison Keillor said:
The party of Lincoln and Liberty has been transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brown-shirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong's moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers
out to diminish the rest of us, Newt's evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch President [G.W. Bush], a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk.
Click to expand...
Until the GOP returns to the slightly less malignant form that Keillor described, all right-thinking Americans must treat the GOP as domestic terrorists and work toward their destruction.
 
If you think I exaggerate in the previous post, look at this N.Y. Times article.

One anti-Trump GOP organization ("Right Side PAC") was forced to disband after its founder was arrested for corruption. Another ("Bravery Project") was founded by Joe Walsh, a virulent right-winger who did support Trump in 2016, writing on Twitter "... if Trump loses [the Nov. 2016 election], I'm grabbing my musket. You in?"
 
I would think the left would like this development. Why not a "reimagining" of the conservative position(s)? Isn't this a positive?

I mean, along comes this bumbling billionaire, he is elected President, and all of a sudden the rednecks, racists, and bigots of all stripes have their time in the sun, thinking they are finally validated. Then a mob of morons storms the capitol building, making the Right look as foolish as they ever have. The doofus of a prez does nothing to stop it, and in fact has incited it, AND does not stop it when he is begged to.

So the Right is ashamed and embarrassed. It loses respect, and founders. So, some of the more centered repubs imagine a different kind of party. One more rational. More reasoned, and less entrenched in old world values.

Isn't that a good thing overall?

We do not want a one party system, do we?
 
WAB said:
We do not want a one party system, do we?
Click to expand...

The Federalist Party disappeared, and the single Party that remained eventually split between Jackson and Adams factions. The Whig Party was an important worthy party, but when it wouldn't commit to an anti-slavery plank it dissolved, and the Republican Party rose in its ashes.

What I would like to see — though I'm afraid it's wishful thinking — is for the Democratic Party to become a dominant single Party, and then, inevitably, fracture into a left-wing and a right-wing.

Try this thought experiment: Suppose the two Parties today were the Democrats and the Nazis, and the Nazis made no secret of wanting to emulate Adolf Hitler. In that scenario, would you still hope that the "better" Nazis would form a New Nazi Party to compete against the Democrats? Or would you prefer that the Nazi Party just disappears and, eventually, the Party not based on hatred and racism would fracture, like the Democratic-Republican Party did so many years ago? ( I am NOT comparing the Federalists with Nazis.)

The key point is: This is NOT a hypothetical thought experiment. The only big difference between today's GOP and Hitler's Nazis is the name.
 
WAB said:
I would think the left would like this development. Why not a "reimagining" of the conservative position(s)? Isn't this a positive?
Click to expand...

The "reimagining" is likely to be just distancing themselves from the crazy conspiracy nuts, and returning to being a party of voter suppression, phony 'controversies' used to smear political opponents, crony capitalisms, endless tax cuts for the rich while dismantling social safety nets, calling everyone that disagrees with them communist/socialist, support of systemic racism, pro military-industrial complex, proto-fascism, propaganda machine that they have been for decades. They abandoned any honest, respectable political stance long ago in favor of just talking points and 'culture wars'. If some of them come forward saying the party should reject just about everything they stood for from Nixon on then maybe there might be something worth listening to.

Best case scenario I see now would be republican party fading away, and democrats fracturing into two parties. The pro-corporate center-right democrats and the progressives.
 
WAB said:
I would think the left would like this development. Why not a "reimagining" of the conservative position(s)? Isn't this a positive?
Click to expand...

Are they going to keep promoting trickle down economics (which has been proven to not work), which has drastically increased inequality in this country, which is one of many things that led to Trump? Or are they going to ignore that?
 
marc said:
...returning to being a party of voter suppression, phony 'controversies' used to smear political opponents, crony capitalisms, endless tax cuts for the rich while dismantling social safety nets, calling everyone that disagrees with them communist/socialist, support of systemic racism, pro military-industrial complex, proto-fascism, propaganda machine...
Click to expand...

Sounds like a breath of fresh air, compared to what they have become.
Maybe the Republicans are brilliant after all, and are simply playing the long game:

GQP said:
"Looky here boys, those Dems are making us look bad. Let's get a real scumbag elected, maybe let him stage a coup attempt or two...
After a few years of that, they'll welcome our traditional voter suppression, racism and treasury-looting like an old friend!"
Click to expand...
 
Swammerdami said:
WAB said:
We do not want a one party system, do we?
Click to expand...

The Federalist Party disappeared, and the single Party that remained eventually split between Jackson and Adams factions. The Whig Party was an important worthy party, but when it wouldn't commit to an anti-slavery plank it dissolved, and the Republican Party rose in its ashes.

What I would like to see — though I'm afraid it's wishful thinking — is for the Democratic Party to become a dominant single Party, and then, inevitably, fracture into a left-wing and a right-wing.

Try this thought experiment: Suppose the two Parties today were the Democrats and the Nazis, and the Nazis made no secret of wanting to emulate Adolf Hitler. In that scenario, would you still hope that the "better" Nazis would form a New Nazi Party to compete against the Democrats? Or would you prefer that the Nazi Party just disappears and, eventually, the Party not based on hatred and racism would fracture, like the Democratic-Republican Party did so many years ago? ( I am NOT comparing the Federalists with Nazis.)

The key point is: This is NOT a hypothetical thought experiment. The only big difference between today's GOP and Hitler's Nazis is the name.
Click to expand...

Do you think Black conservatives are nazis, bigots, racists, etc.?
 
WAB said:
Swammerdami said:
WAB said:
We do not want a one party system, do we?
Click to expand...

The Federalist Party disappeared, and the single Party that remained eventually split between Jackson and Adams factions. The Whig Party was an important worthy party, but when it wouldn't commit to an anti-slavery plank it dissolved, and the Republican Party rose in its ashes.

What I would like to see — though I'm afraid it's wishful thinking — is for the Democratic Party to become a dominant single Party, and then, inevitably, fracture into a left-wing and a right-wing.

Try this thought experiment: Suppose the two Parties today were the Democrats and the Nazis, and the Nazis made no secret of wanting to emulate Adolf Hitler. In that scenario, would you still hope that the "better" Nazis would form a New Nazi Party to compete against the Democrats? Or would you prefer that the Nazi Party just disappears and, eventually, the Party not based on hatred and racism would fracture, like the Democratic-Republican Party did so many years ago? ( I am NOT comparing the Federalists with Nazis.)

The key point is: This is NOT a hypothetical thought experiment. The only big difference between today's GOP and Hitler's Nazis is the name.
Click to expand...

Do you think Black conservatives are nazis, bigots, racists, etc.?
Click to expand...

If they support things like banning gay marriage, then sure, they're bigots. As far as I know most black conservatives tend to also be religious fundamentalists, which tends to make people bigots.
 
GenesisNemesis said:
WAB said:
I would think the left would like this development. Why not a "reimagining" of the conservative position(s)? Isn't this a positive?
Click to expand...

Are they going to keep promoting trickle down economics (which has been proven to not work), which has drastically increased inequality in this country, which is one of many things that led to Trump? Or are they going to ignore that?
Click to expand...

How would I know? I am not a republican.
 
GenesisNemesis said:
WAB said:
Do you think Black conservatives are nazis, bigots, racists, etc.?
Click to expand...

If they support things like banning gay marriage, then sure, they're bigots. As far as I know most black conservatives tend to also be religious fundamentalists, which tends to make people bigots.
Click to expand...

Good answer! I like you, Swammi.

I am thinking of people like Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, and many others of that ilk, whom I have read into and seen interviewed. Dave Rubin, himself a gay man who is married to a man, used to have guests on his show who were controversial. Like Milo what's his name and the fiery Candace Owens. He also had Larry Elder on, and I was impressed by him.

I am also impressed by Rubin himself, who went from a leftist to a more centrist position. Many smart people have undergone such a change.

Let us be rational, and resist judging individuals as members of groups. Groups don't really exist. Individuals exist.
 
Elixir said:
marc said:
...returning to being a party of voter suppression, phony 'controversies' used to smear political opponents, crony capitalisms, endless tax cuts for the rich while dismantling social safety nets, calling everyone that disagrees with them communist/socialist, support of systemic racism, pro military-industrial complex, proto-fascism, propaganda machine...
Click to expand...

Sounds like a breath of fresh air, compared to what they have become.
Maybe the Republicans are brilliant after all, and are simply playing the long game:
Click to expand...
But that 'breath of fresh air' is what led to what they became. Seems they are surprised that people that are constantly lied to, fed a steady diet of racist conspiracy theories actually start to believe them, and then run for office on those lies and conspiracies.
 
In a third party scenario, a moderate could win. The problem on the right is that they are no run mostly by crazy religious people. But the problem on the left is that they don't understand that most people don't want to pay higher taxes. They want a strong economy. A moderate party that advocated for less taxes, better environment, better safety net, economic development, sane leadership that followed science could win big.
 
I've taken the liberty of painting actions to increase the deficit red, and actions to decrease it green.
Harry Bosch said:
In a third party scenario, a moderate could win. The problem on the right is that they are no run mostly by crazy religious people. But the problem on the left is that they don't understand that most people don't want to pay higher taxes. They want a strong economy. A moderate party that advocated for less taxes, better environment, better safety net, economic development, sane leadership that followed science could win big.
Click to expand...

So ... You're a strong fan of "Modern Monetary Theory"?

And unless "most people" denotes "millionaires" in your dialect, I don't think the Party that wants to help most people financially is the one you seem to think it is.
 
Swammerdami said:
I've taken the liberty of painting actions to increase the deficit red, and actions to decrease it green.
Harry Bosch said:
In a third party scenario, a moderate could win. The problem on the right is that they are no run mostly by crazy religious people. But the problem on the left is that they don't understand that most people don't want to pay higher taxes. They want a strong economy. A moderate party that advocated for less taxes, better environment, better safety net, economic development, sane leadership that followed science could win big.
Click to expand...

So ... You're a strong fan of "Modern Monetary Theory"?

And unless "most people" denotes "millionaires" in your dialect, I don't think the Party that wants to help most people financially is the one you seem to think it is.
Click to expand...

I don't know what that means. I know that Bill Clinton lowered taxes, increased economic development, increased the safety net, increased regulations for the environment, and lowered the deficit.
 
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