Vermont prioritises BIPOC over white people for COVID-19 vaccine

[Metaphor]

Putting a group in priority status is recognition that they matter. Duh.

So white people don't matter to Vermont?

What prompted that outpouring of bile?

Your gross dishonesty.

And yet, you did not know that 40+ was a priority.

Of course I knew that Vermont was progressively prioritising lower and lower age groups. It's in the OP link. On April 12, 30 years olds of any race or health status will be eligible.

That does not mean that at one point in time, white 45 year olds qua white people were ineligible for the vaccine, while a BIPOC 19 year old was eligible.

I pointed out your claim was wrong when you wrote it

My claim was not wrong.

I wrote

Originally Posted by Metaphor

Indeed, the age effect on COVID death is so large I suspect that vaccinating a 19 year old BIPOC is a much poorer choice than vaccinating a 45 year old person of any race.

Then you, incomprehensibly, wrote:

The Vermont guidelines place 40 years old + in the prioritization cue with BIPOC. Please read your own links.

As if that contradicted my claim or betrayed that I hadn't read the link in my own OP.

Your assertion that white people 40+ are now eligible for the vaccine in Vermont has nothing to do with the claim I made.

and that if you had read your link (as you say, you know the priorities are changing, so there is no reason other than sloppiness to not check before responding) before responding, you'd have known it.

I'm going to stop this here, because your claim is false.

But if there is no evidence that the BIPOC vaccination rate increased (your claim), then there is no evidence that the prioritization induced any BIPOC vaccinations that would have not otherwise occurred. Which means that there is no evidence that any white person was blocked from getting a vaccination.

Are you capable of basic reasoning? From the above, there is no evidence you are.

Blocking all white people qua white people from getting a vaccination before a certain date means those white people were blocked from getting a vaccination before that date. They are getting blocked by definition.

I'll try and explain it to you like you are in primary school.

A new COVID-19 vaccine is on the market on 1 March. Amy and Bella want to get vaccinated on the first day it is available. Bella is allowed to get vaccinated, but the government tells Amy she must wait until 1 April. While Amy is waiting, she gets COVID-19 on the 4th of March, and dies.

That is basic reasoning. So please stop with your boring and predictable passive aggressive accusations of dishonest or bad faith arguing.

Maybe you're not dishonest. Maybe you're just incompetent.

 

[Metaphor]

It looks like the discrimination by race didn't work anyway

According to Scientific American:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...nority-residents-priority-for-covid-vaccines/

Blacks make up about 2% of Vermont’s population and 4% of its covid infections, but they have received 1% of the state’s vaccines, according to KFF.

But maybe that was never the point. Maybe the policy was to satisfy the yearning for white liberal smugness, in which case it was undoubtedly a success.

 

[Toni]

According to Scientific American:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...nority-residents-priority-for-covid-vaccines/

Blacks make up about 2% of Vermont’s population and 4% of its covid infections, but they have received 1% of the state’s vaccines, according to KFF.

But maybe that was never the point. Maybe the policy was to satisfy the yearning for white liberal smugness, in which case it was undoubtedly a success.

In the US, BIPOC persons tend to be less wealthy and of lower socioeconomic status. In the US, that translates into BIPOC having less access to healthcare. In the US, that translates into BIPOC having less access to COVID19 vaccinations despite free dispense clinics in many areas for a variety of reasons including and perhaps especially because in many areas, including my own, availability of vaccine/open slots in clinics are announced with little notice. I called and less than an hour later, I got the call back to come in that evening. That was easy for me to do: I have reliable transportation, no children to look after and I wasn't working. Also, the clinic was within 5 minutes by car from my house--perhaps 20 minutes if I had walked (cold and icy sidewalks that first night so I drove). Poorer people, who are more likely to be BIPOC, are also more likely to lack childcare, especially on short notice, to lack reliable transportation, are less likely to be able to miss work, are less likely to have a vaccination clinic at their workplace or in their neighborhood. Those are all barriers that it is easy for me to overcome and would have been easy for me to overcome if I still had young children at home because my spouse would have been willing and able to look after the kids while I was vaccinated and I, for him, when it was his turn. We both had jobs which were generous in terms of flexibility of hours, time off, and in my case: on site vaccinations, so I would not have even needed anyone to look after those kids if I had them.

Additionally, there has been a pretty strong campaign to convince BIPOC that COVID19 vaccines are experimental, unsafe, ineffective and are another example of white people using black people as guinea pigs as has happened so often in the past. So, more black and indigenous persons have been reluctant to be vaccinated. Frankly, I know a lot of idiot white people who won't get vaccinated because they are idiots and a few who cannot for medical reasons.

Because of all of these barriers, increasing access and increasing efforts to vaccinate these populations which have shown to have a greater than average incidence of serious disease has been necessary.

 

[Toni]

So white people don't matter to Vermont?



Your gross dishonesty.

And yet, you did not know that 40+ was a priority.

Of course I knew that Vermont was progressively prioritising lower and lower age groups. It's in the OP link. On April 12, 30 years olds of any race or health status will be eligible.

That does not mean that at one point in time, white 45 year olds qua white people were ineligible for the vaccine, while a BIPOC 19 year old was eligible.

I pointed out your claim was wrong when you wrote it

My claim was not wrong.

I wrote

Originally Posted by Metaphor

Indeed, the age effect on COVID death is so large I suspect that vaccinating a 19 year old BIPOC is a much poorer choice than vaccinating a 45 year old person of any race.

Then you, incomprehensibly, wrote:

The Vermont guidelines place 40 years old + in the prioritization cue with BIPOC. Please read your own links.

As if that contradicted my claim or betrayed that I hadn't read the link in my own OP.

Your assertion that white people 40+ are now eligible for the vaccine in Vermont has nothing to do with the claim I made.

and that if you had read your link (as you say, you know the priorities are changing, so there is no reason other than sloppiness to not check before responding) before responding, you'd have known it.

I'm going to stop this here, because your claim is false.

But if there is no evidence that the BIPOC vaccination rate increased (your claim), then there is no evidence that the prioritization induced any BIPOC vaccinations that would have not otherwise occurred. Which means that there is no evidence that any white person was blocked from getting a vaccination.

Are you capable of basic reasoning? From the above, there is no evidence you are.

Blocking all white people qua white people from getting a vaccination before a certain date means those white people were blocked from getting a vaccination before that date. They are getting blocked by definition.

I'll try and explain it to you like you are in primary school.

A new COVID-19 vaccine is on the market on 1 March. Amy and Bella want to get vaccinated on the first day it is available. Bella is allowed to get vaccinated, but the government tells Amy she must wait until 1 April. While Amy is waiting, she gets COVID-19 on the 4th of March, and dies.

That is basic reasoning. So please stop with your boring and predictable passive aggressive accusations of dishonest or bad faith arguing.

Maybe you're not dishonest. Maybe you're just incompetent.

I don't think it is ld who is incompetent or dishonest here.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

 

[Metaphor]

In the US, BIPOC persons tend to be less wealthy and of lower socioeconomic status. In the US, that translates into BIPOC having less access to healthcare. In the US, that translates into BIPOC having less access to COVID19 vaccinations despite free dispense clinics in many areas for a variety of reasons including and perhaps especially because in many areas, including my own, availability of vaccine/open slots in clinics are announced with little notice. I called and less than an hour later, I got the call back to come in that evening. That was easy for me to do: I have reliable transportation, no children to look after and I wasn't working. Also, the clinic was within 5 minutes by car from my house--perhaps 20 minutes if I had walked (cold and icy sidewalks that first night so I drove). Poorer people, who are more likely to be BIPOC, are also more likely to lack childcare, especially on short notice, to lack reliable transportation, are less likely to be able to miss work, are less likely to have a vaccination clinic at their workplace or in their neighborhood. Those are all barriers that it is easy for me to overcome and would have been easy for me to overcome if I still had young children at home because my spouse would have been willing and able to look after the kids while I was vaccinated and I, for him, when it was his turn. We both had jobs which were generous in terms of flexibility of hours, time off, and in my case: on site vaccinations, so I would not have even needed anyone to look after those kids if I had them.

This is a nice story, but there is no evidence that blocking white people from the vaccine increased BIPOC vaccination rate.

The Scientific American article actually has some non-discriminatory suggestions, such as:

Still, he said, states should continue to use a range of options to get vaccines to minority communities, such as providing vaccination sites in Black neighborhoods and places that residents trust, like churches.

Additionally, there has been a pretty strong campaign to convince BIPOC that COVID19 vaccines are experimental, unsafe, ineffective and are another example of white people using black people as guinea pigs as has happened so often in the past. So, more black and indigenous persons have been reluctant to be vaccinated. Frankly, I know a lot of idiot white people who won't get vaccinated because they are idiots and a few who cannot for medical reasons.

So the white people who won't get vaccinated because they believe the disinformation campaign are idiots, but the BIPOC who believe it are not idiots?

Because of all of these barriers, increasing access and increasing efforts to vaccinate these populations which have shown to have a greater than average incidence of serious disease has been necessary.

Discriminating by race was neither effective, necessary, or sufficient.

 

[Metaphor]

So white people don't matter to Vermont?



Your gross dishonesty.




Of course I knew that Vermont was progressively prioritising lower and lower age groups. It's in the OP link. On April 12, 30 years olds of any race or health status will be eligible.

That does not mean that at one point in time, white 45 year olds qua white people were ineligible for the vaccine, while a BIPOC 19 year old was eligible.



My claim was not wrong.

I wrote

Originally Posted by Metaphor

Indeed, the age effect on COVID death is so large I suspect that vaccinating a 19 year old BIPOC is a much poorer choice than vaccinating a 45 year old person of any race.

Then you, incomprehensibly, wrote:

The Vermont guidelines place 40 years old + in the prioritization cue with BIPOC. Please read your own links.

As if that contradicted my claim or betrayed that I hadn't read the link in my own OP.

Your assertion that white people 40+ are now eligible for the vaccine in Vermont has nothing to do with the claim I made.

and that if you had read your link (as you say, you know the priorities are changing, so there is no reason other than sloppiness to not check before responding) before responding, you'd have known it.

I'm going to stop this here, because your claim is false.

But if there is no evidence that the BIPOC vaccination rate increased (your claim), then there is no evidence that the prioritization induced any BIPOC vaccinations that would have not otherwise occurred. Which means that there is no evidence that any white person was blocked from getting a vaccination.

Are you capable of basic reasoning? From the above, there is no evidence you are.

Blocking all white people qua white people from getting a vaccination before a certain date means those white people were blocked from getting a vaccination before that date. They are getting blocked by definition.

I'll try and explain it to you like you are in primary school.

A new COVID-19 vaccine is on the market on 1 March. Amy and Bella want to get vaccinated on the first day it is available. Bella is allowed to get vaccinated, but the government tells Amy she must wait until 1 April. While Amy is waiting, she gets COVID-19 on the 4th of March, and dies.

That is basic reasoning. So please stop with your boring and predictable passive aggressive accusations of dishonest or bad faith arguing.

Maybe you're not dishonest. Maybe you're just incompetent.

I don't think it is ld who is incompetent or dishonest here.

laughing dog appears to believe blocking white people from getting the vaccine does not block white people from getting the vaccine.

 

[laughing dog]

So white people don't matter to Vermont?

Where did that straw man arise from?

Your gross dishonesty.

There you go again with your nasty unfounded accusations.

Of course I knew that Vermont was progressively prioritising lower and lower age groups. It's in the OP link. On April 12, 30 years olds of any race or health status will be eligible.

That does not mean that at one point in time, white 45 year olds qua white people were ineligible for the vaccine, while a BIPOC 19 year old was eligible.

But that is not the issue. If you knew the age had been lowered to 40 when you wrote your response about 45 year olds, then you wrote a lie. Since I do not think you would not do that, it must be that you did not read your own link before that response. So which is it - did you lie or were you using out-dated information because you did not read your link before you responded?

Are you capable of basic reasoning? From the above, there is no evidence you are.

My reasoning is not the issue but yours is.

Blocking all white people qua white people from getting a vaccination before a certain date means those white people were blocked from getting a vaccination before that date. They are getting blocked by definition.

But not all white people were blocked from getting a vaccination. Hence your argument is based on a false premise.

I'll try and explain it to you like you are in primary school.

A new COVID-19 vaccine is on the market on 1 March. Amy and Bella want to get vaccinated on the first day it is available. Bella is allowed to get vaccinated, but the government tells Amy she must wait until 1 April. While Amy is waiting, she gets COVID-19 on the 4th of March, and dies.

But white people where not blocked from the vaccine. Apparently you are mistaken about what “priority” means. It does means go to the front of the line – it does not mean anyone is blocked. Besides, the priority categories included many sorts of white people.

Maybe you're not dishonest. Maybe you're just incompetent.

There you go again with another nasty unfounded accusation.

What is fascinating is in post 82, you tacitly admit your claim of fact about white people is false. The reality you are either unwilling to accept or admit is that there is no evidence that any white person in Vermont was actually blocked from getting a vaccine: there is no evidence of any actual discrimination.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The government is discriminating by age, by race, by presence of health condition, etc.

Discrimination is not wrong just because it is discrimination. But to deny it is discrimination by race when it very clearly is smacks of ideological blindness.

I'm not denying that they're discriminating on race. I'm elaborating that race is being used as a proxy for a set of other factors that historically create a lower level of access to health care for those races.

Would that be "discriminating" then, in the charged sense Metaphor is using?

 

[Toni]

Metaphor seems unwilling to concede that setting priority lists for vaccination of the most vulnerable is not the same thing as blocking anyone from vaccination.



Rather, a priority list simply orders the line for vaccines.

We are extremely fortunate that our government is dedicated to ensuring that everyone who wants a vaccine will be able to be vaccinated and quickly. The production of vaccines and development of new vaccines has progressed rapidly. In a fairly short period of time, the new administration has facilitated vaccine programs that target the most vulnerable first and is quickly moving on to availability for the rest of the population. I hope that the entire world's population is able to be vaccinated very soon.

 

[TomC]

Metaphor seems unwilling to concede that setting priority lists for vaccination of the most vulnerable is not the same thing as blocking anyone from vaccination.



Rather, a priority list simply orders the line for vaccines.

We are extremely fortunate that our government is dedicated to ensuring that everyone who wants a vaccine will be able to be vaccinated and quickly. The production of vaccines and development of new vaccines has progressed rapidly. In a fairly short period of time, the new administration has facilitated vaccine programs that target the most vulnerable first and is quickly moving on to availability for the rest of the population. I hope that the entire world's population is able to be vaccinated very soon.

Really, this is all there is to it.
Racing to get everyone protected, starting with the most vulnerable, is the only sensible way deal with a crisis like this.

Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Metaphor seems unwilling to concede that setting priority lists for vaccination of the most vulnerable is not the same thing as blocking anyone from vaccination.

He is like The Onion's Op-Ed Cartoon come to life.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Well, I don't get it. Triages increase the survivability rates of persons. Most states are already triaging by age. Vermont decided to add race into their triage they did by age because race (like age) is correlated to worse outcomes when people get covid. Vermont did this with the intent to save more people overall than otherwise, just like their prioritizations by medical risk and age also save more lives.

The op post is like hysterical whining that the Civil War was repugnant, because of a claim that even though in the very long-term it has saved lives and liberty, in the short-term it violated states' rights and thus was Unconstitutional. ... with little emotional outbursts here and there that white people didn't matter to Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Metaphor]

Where did that straw man arise from?

You said that Vermont prioritising groups shows those groups 'they matter'. I assume then that white people do not matter.

But that is not the issue. If you knew the age had been lowered to 40 when you wrote your response about 45 year olds, then you wrote a lie.

I wrote:

Originally Posted by Metaphor



Indeed, the age effect on COVID death is so large I suspect that vaccinating a 19 year old BIPOC is a much poorer choice than vaccinating a 45 year old person of any race.

That is not a lie.

Since I do not think you would not do that, it must be that you did not read your own link before that response. So which is it - did you lie or were you using out-dated information because you did not read your link before you responded?

I wrote:

Originally Posted by Metaphor



Indeed, the age effect on COVID death is so large I suspect that vaccinating a 19 year old BIPOC is a much poorer choice than vaccinating a 45 year old person of any race.

That is not a lie.

But not all white people were blocked from getting a vaccination. Hence your argument is based on a false premise.

I wrote "blocking all white people qua white people" because I knew you would be dishonest in reading any sentence I write.

Vermont's policy blocked white people as white people. Anybody of any race who qualified under another category could get in under that other category, but they didn't get in to that category because they were white.

But white people where not blocked from the vaccine. Apparently you are mistaken about what “priority” means. It does means go to the front of the line – it does not mean anyone is blocked.

Vermont's COVID vaccine timeline is available here
https://vtdigger.org/2021/03/19/vermont-covid-vaccine-schedule/

Of course they were blocked. Vaccinations started in March. A 45 year old white person who did not qualify under any other category could not even register to get a shot until April 5, while BIPOC who did not qualify under any other category could.

Besides, the priority categories included many sorts of white people.

Completely irrelevant. No person qualified forhose categories because they were white, but BIPOC can qualify as BIPOC.

What is fascinating is in post 82, you tacitly admit your claim of fact about white people is false.

EDIT: laughing dog's lie here doesn't deserve more of a response but I'll do it anyway.

In post 82, I post a link showing that even though Vermont discriminated by race in prioritising BIPOC for its COVID-19 vaccine, BIPOC people were still not taking up the vaccine in proportion to their population. I'm not surprised by this, because BIPOC have a history of having lower vaccination rates.

But of course Vermont's policy settings discriminated by race in favouring BIPOC. No data about vaccination rates could cause that not to be true. The policy is explicit discrimination.

The reality you are either unwilling to accept or admit is that there is no evidence that any white person in Vermont was actually blocked from getting a vaccine: there is no evidence of any actual discrimination.

All white people who did not qualify under any other category were blocked, and will continue to be blocked until they qualify under the age tiers.

 

[Metaphor]

The op post is like hysterical whining t

I challenge somebody to read the OP and find 'hysterical whining'.

 

[Metaphor]

Metaphor seems unwilling to concede that setting priority lists for vaccination of the most vulnerable is not the same thing as blocking anyone from vaccination.

Of course it is blocking people. In Vermont, vaccinations started in March. A white 45 year old who did not qualify under any other category could not even register to get the vaccine until April 5, while a BIPOC 19 year old who did not qualify under any other category could register and get her dose from March.

 

[Toni]

Metaphor seems unwilling to concede that setting priority lists for vaccination of the most vulnerable is not the same thing as blocking anyone from vaccination.

Of course it is blocking people. In Vermont, vaccinations started in March. A white 45 year old who did not qualify under any other category could not even register to get the vaccine until April 5, while a BIPOC 19 year old who did not qualify under any other category could register and get her dose from March.

So what you are acknowledging is that people who were further down the priority list in March can now sign up to be vaccinated.

Huh.

 

[laughing dog]

You said that Vermont prioritising groups shows those groups 'they matter'. I assume then that white people do not matter.

Of course you do, even though your assumption does not follow.

That is not a lie.

Then you are tacitly acknowledging you did not read your link before you posted it. Fine, you were sloppy.

I wrote "blocking all white people qua white people" because I knew you would be dishonest in reading any sentence I write.

And there you go again with your nasty false accusations.

laughing dog's lie here doesn't deserve more of a response but I'll do it anyway.

There you go again with another nasty accusation. It is as if you are incapable of discussion with being an ass.

BTW, still waiting for you to substantiate your claim of fact with actual evidence that
There are white people who will get sick and die from COVID, who otherwise would not have, because of Vermont's discrimination by race.


What is fascinating about all of your posturing about the perceived (but unsubstantiated) effects on white people is the issue about triage, and, of course, the issue that any attempt triage protocol will mean that those in lower categories are put at higher risk.

 

[Metaphor]

Metaphor seems unwilling to concede that setting priority lists for vaccination of the most vulnerable is not the same thing as blocking anyone from vaccination.

Of course it is blocking people. In Vermont, vaccinations started in March. A white 45 year old who did not qualify under any other category could not even register to get the vaccine until April 5, while a BIPOC 19 year old who did not qualify under any other category could register and get her dose from March.

So what you are acknowledging is that people who were further down the priority list in March can now sign up to be vaccinated.

Huh.

In what universe had I denied such a thing? I have posted multiple links showing the age tiers in Vermont's vaccination schedule, and the dates which white people in those age groups become eligible. (BIPOC people 16+ already being eligible, naturally).

 

[Toni]

So what you are acknowledging is that people who were further down the priority list in March can now sign up to be vaccinated.

Huh.

In what universe had I denied such a thing? I have posted multiple links showing the age tiers in Vermont's vaccination schedule, and the dates which white people in those age groups become eligible. (BIPOC people 16+ already being eligible, naturally).

Maybe we are talking past each other?
Can you explain what you mean by being ‘blocked?’

Because to us Americans it looks like people move up in the priority list as time goes on. As priority lists are designed to do.