Rationalizing faith.

[skepticalbip]

Some appear to support a need for the Royal or Noble Lie, but it's debatable whether that does more good than harm.

But those who need to blindly believe some authority figure who tells them what to believe and that they will be taken care of can listen to their choice of politicians rather than priests.

 

[southernhybrid]

Science gave us mass agriculture producing far more calories then we need, a side effect is mass producing junk food leading to obesity and medical issues like diabetes costing a lot of money.

Science gave us nuclear energy that can be used for elctrical power, amd it led to nuclear weapons.

One can argue sconce has ed to all te technology that ed up to efficient deadly warfare on a global scale.

Religion has always been part of a social and ciil cohesion and stability.

Conservatives make a case the rise in drug addictions and violence is attrubted to the diminishing of religion and the community that goes along with it.

At least to a degree I agree.

We can sit back and assume without the stabilizing influence of religion all us finicky humans are going to be rational. Observation around the world says otherwise. In the past I have asked the atheist side, if not religion what replaces religion as it goes away? Perhaps the do anything you like any time you like we have today?

The only really positive thing that I see in my own community, in regards to religion, is the willingness to spend a lot time and money on charity. That of course could be replaced by expanding the government's safety net so that poverty becomes a rarity. Other than that, I don't see that religious folks are any more morally inclined that we atheists tend to be. Of course, we can't generalize and say that all of one group is good or bad. In fact, there have been an unlimited number of scandals among religious leaders, especially when it comes to sexual assault and harassment. There are more prisoners who hold a religious belief, per capita, compared to non believers. So, I don't see how the claim that religious involvement has kept society safer, or less inclined toward criminality.

It's true that religion does offer easy access to community, but if we atheists would get our shit together, we could do the same thing. As you probably know, over the past 2 or 3 decades, atheist or Freethought groups are on the rise, although as I've said before, we don't seem to have the same organizing skills that many Christian churches do. That might simply be because we haven't been doing it for a couple of thousand years. But, organizations such as The Atlanta Freethought Society have existed for decades. They offer community and opportunities to be exposed to interesting lectures from all kinds of experts. I always enjoyed visiting the AFS and received what is probably the same little uplifting buzz that many theists receive when they attend their religious services. Then again, if we need religion, why couldn't we all become Unitarians. I've had atheist friends who were also members of a UU fellowship. The UUs encourage each individual to decide what religious philosophy to value. It just has to be a very liberal interpretation of that religion. Sadly, if anything is dying out, it's the Unitarians. I've never had the opportunity to live near one.

The one thing I found disappointing when I was the treasurer for a now defunct Humanist organization was the unwillingness of atheists to part with even a few dollars of their money so our group could support itself. Eventually, the AFT had to require yearly dues to be able to obtain enough money to pay the bills. But, it seems to be working for them, as they still own the building that was once a small church.

I don't see any of societal problems as related to religion's gradual decreasing influences. But, I live in a small city that has over 80 churches, so is religion really dying out? We still have our share of crime here, especially domestic violence and problems with gangs. We still have too much poverty and too many children that lack a good home environment and many of these children come from religious families.

So, despite all of the churches in town, the old problems remain. Religions also have no shame when it comes to making their parishioners feel as if they must contribution financially, regardless if they afford it or not. So, while I don't see all aspects of religion has always being negative, I don't see religion as helping people live better lives, other than those that can't find community and emotional support from other sources.

And good grief! Just look at all the harm done by religious fanatics during the past 4 years! Look at the hatred and outright racism from many White evangelicals. We don't need religion to keep society intact. Sometimes religion is the cause of some of the worst evils in the world. Other times, it does some positive things for the local community, but there are so many factors that cause people to be who they are, with or without religion.

 

[Angry Floof]

. In the past I have asked the atheist side, if not religion what replaces religion as it goes away? Perhaps the do anything you like any time you like we have today?

And it's been answered many times. Religion offers nothing of human goodness that can't be had without it. We already have everything we think we need from religion. We don't need religion to experience something bigger than ourselves. We don't need religion to have hope. We don't need religion to have community. We certainly don't need religion to use logic and reason by any means. We don't need religion to love each other and take care of each other. We don't need religion to learn. We don't need it to strive for something better than just animal brain reactions. We don't need it to develop principled world views. We don't need it to develop conscience and engage in moral struggle. We don't need it to solve real problems. We don't need it to develop a framework of thoughtful concern that includes the entire world. In fact, much of religion stands in the way of these things.

So what part of we already have everything we need to do and experience any of the things religion claims to offer do you not understand?

I agree it's a weird question. It demonstrates that religion doesn't really do anything. Is religion supposed to be treating or curing something? What?

It offers the cure for a non-existent disease they made up.

I think self awareness and complex brains have had a side effect of something that to some might feel like a deep wound. Maybe it's birth trauma. Humans are very sensitive to trauma. We're also very sensitive to fear of having no family or community, or of being kicked out of a safe community. So it's easy to tell us stories like we naturally carry a deep shame and guilt and a deep pain of separation.

If we could start to acknowledge this as a species, as a tribe of seven billion, and consciously recognize what religious stories hijack within us so easily and powerfully, especially in children, we might have a chance of addressing those things more consciously and compassionately and realistically and in the context of community where one person or a few can't privately take advantage of human vulnerability for their own benefit. No psychological manipulation like using shame as a weapon and tool of control and submission, no suggestion of a magical, unconditionally loving, abusive father figure that you must believe in to relieve your hijacked fear and sadness because he loves you but if you don't he'll punish you. And of course all the other stories like the world out there beyond our ideology is wicked and lost. We are the only ones who can tell you the truth. People who don't believe in our stories, especially the ones who don't believe any religious stories, are lost and under the influence of evil. We will keep you safe from that evil. And on and on.

"God," in religion, means human proxy father figure. I believe pastors are typically genuinely caring, helpful people, but so many are also abusive and the framework of Christianity makes it easy for them. It's so easy for them to control and abuse and get away with it.

And I think the vast majority of these authority figures are themselves taken in by the story. They fall easily into the role, taking with them whatever inclinations they have for either loving kindness or abuse, whatever ideas and framework they have regarding authority, fatherhood, etc.

But this is just my thoughts. I post this as food for thought and not as argument.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Religiously speaking, and this is the danger, what a person does in the name of their god, their group and their religion is not important. What is important is why they are doing it. I suppose this is so because their god can magically know every person's mind and people become afraid of the all powerful boss. That being so I can kill for my god and I can heal for my god and it is the same thing because I did it for my god. Fortunately we have secular laws to address this issue in most societies today. Without secular law life would be a living nightmare.

 

[Angry Floof]

I think self awareness and complex brains have had a side effect of something that to some might feel like a deep wound. Maybe it's birth trauma. Humans are very sensitive to trauma. We're also very sensitive to fear of having no family or community, or of being kicked out of a safe community. So it's easy to tell us stories like we naturally carry a deep shame and guilt and a deep pain of separation.

If we could start to acknowledge this as a species, as a tribe of seven billion, and consciously recognize what religious stories hijack within us so easily and powerfully, especially in children, we might have a chance of addressing those things more consciously and compassionately and realistically and in the context of community where one person or a few can't privately take advantage of human vulnerability for their own benefit. No psychological manipulation like using shame as a weapon and tool of control and submission, no suggestion of a magical, unconditionally loving, abusive father figure that you must believe in to relieve your hijacked fear and sadness because he loves you but if you don't he'll punish you. And of course all the other stories like the world out there beyond our ideology is wicked and lost. We are the only ones who can tell you the truth. People who don't believe in our stories, especially the ones who don't believe any religious stories, are lost and under the influence of evil. We will keep you safe from that evil. And on and on.

"God," in religion, means human proxy father figure. I believe pastors are typically genuinely caring, helpful people, but so many are also abusive and the framework of Christianity makes it easy for them. It's so easy for them to control and abuse and get away with it.

And I think the vast majority of these authority figures are themselves taken in by the story. They fall easily into the role, taking with them whatever inclinations they have for either loving kindness or abuse, whatever ideas and framework they have regarding authority, fatherhood, etc.

But this is just my thoughts. I post this as food for thought and not as argument.

Side note. I just read a sentence while surfing that I find quite interesting: "Religion is an effort to sublimate the desire to return to the uterus." There may well be some truth to this, but it also sounds funny to state it out like that.

 

[skepticalbip]

Religion is for those who do not understand that their "holy books" were written by comedians so they take them seriously, being afraid to laugh.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think self awareness and complex brains have had a side effect of something that to some might feel like a deep wound. Maybe it's birth trauma. Humans are very sensitive to trauma. We're also very sensitive to fear of having no family or community, or of being kicked out of a safe community. So it's easy to tell us stories like we naturally carry a deep shame and guilt and a deep pain of separation.

If we could start to acknowledge this as a species, as a tribe of seven billion, and consciously recognize what religious stories hijack within us so easily and powerfully, especially in children, we might have a chance of addressing those things more consciously and compassionately and realistically and in the context of community where one person or a few can't privately take advantage of human vulnerability for their own benefit. No psychological manipulation like using shame as a weapon and tool of control and submission, no suggestion of a magical, unconditionally loving, abusive father figure that you must believe in to relieve your hijacked fear and sadness because he loves you but if you don't he'll punish you. And of course all the other stories like the world out there beyond our ideology is wicked and lost. We are the only ones who can tell you the truth. People who don't believe in our stories, especially the ones who don't believe any religious stories, are lost and under the influence of evil. We will keep you safe from that evil. And on and on.

"God," in religion, means human proxy father figure. I believe pastors are typically genuinely caring, helpful people, but so many are also abusive and the framework of Christianity makes it easy for them. It's so easy for them to control and abuse and get away with it.

And I think the vast majority of these authority figures are themselves taken in by the story. They fall easily into the role, taking with them whatever inclinations they have for either loving kindness or abuse, whatever ideas and framework they have regarding authority, fatherhood, etc.

But this is just my thoughts. I post this as food for thought and not as argument.

Side note. I just read a sentence while surfing that I find quite interesting: "Religion is an effort to sublimate the desire to return to the uterus." There may well be some truth to this, but it also sounds funny to state it out like that.

Which means they are attempting to substitute an acceptable behavior for the unacceptable urge of wishing to return to the uterus. So heaven and the glorified afterlife is just uterus envy.

 

[Angry Floof]

I think self awareness and complex brains have had a side effect of something that to some might feel like a deep wound. Maybe it's birth trauma. Humans are very sensitive to trauma. We're also very sensitive to fear of having no family or community, or of being kicked out of a safe community. So it's easy to tell us stories like we naturally carry a deep shame and guilt and a deep pain of separation.

If we could start to acknowledge this as a species, as a tribe of seven billion, and consciously recognize what religious stories hijack within us so easily and powerfully, especially in children, we might have a chance of addressing those things more consciously and compassionately and realistically and in the context of community where one person or a few can't privately take advantage of human vulnerability for their own benefit. No psychological manipulation like using shame as a weapon and tool of control and submission, no suggestion of a magical, unconditionally loving, abusive father figure that you must believe in to relieve your hijacked fear and sadness because he loves you but if you don't he'll punish you. And of course all the other stories like the world out there beyond our ideology is wicked and lost. We are the only ones who can tell you the truth. People who don't believe in our stories, especially the ones who don't believe any religious stories, are lost and under the influence of evil. We will keep you safe from that evil. And on and on.

"God," in religion, means human proxy father figure. I believe pastors are typically genuinely caring, helpful people, but so many are also abusive and the framework of Christianity makes it easy for them. It's so easy for them to control and abuse and get away with it.

And I think the vast majority of these authority figures are themselves taken in by the story. They fall easily into the role, taking with them whatever inclinations they have for either loving kindness or abuse, whatever ideas and framework they have regarding authority, fatherhood, etc.

But this is just my thoughts. I post this as food for thought and not as argument.

Side note. I just read a sentence while surfing that I find quite interesting: "Religion is an effort to sublimate the desire to return to the uterus." There may well be some truth to this, but it also sounds funny to state it out like that.

Which means they are attempting to substitute an acceptable behavior for the unacceptable urge of wishing to return to the uterus. So heaven and the glorified afterlife is just uterus envy.

That was from a paper in APA PsycNet. I didn't read it but judging from the abstract, I suspect your comments sum it up pretty well.

But on a more thoughtful note, I would suggest that the "unacceptable" behavior is actually just subconscious and invisible as we do not have the brain development to remember in any other way but physical at birth. So no one would have any words or understanding at all beyond a nebulous craving. Unacceptable behaviors would be socially subverted behaviors such as trying to cuddle in mother's arms at a certain age or later things like doing drugs, but never knowing why they have such cravings to begin with.

 

[skepticalbip]

Hmmm. It looks like Freudian psychology is making a comeback.

 

[DBT]

Death, the loss of everyone you know and everything you have worked for is a powerful and scary element for some to seriously contemplate. Faith, it appears, is a convenient and comforting psychological escape from the thought of annihilation.

 

[skepticalbip]

Death, the loss of everyone you know and everything you have worked for is a powerful and scary element for some to seriously contemplate. Faith, it appears, is a convenient and comforting psychological escape from the thought of annihilation.

Yes. That does seem to be Christianity's biggest draw, pandering to those who can not accept that life is finite.

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."
~ John 3:15

 

[ideologyhunter]

Religion checks an awful lot of boxes for people. It presents a story, with iconic characters, that purports to answer all questions about meaning and purpose in life. No thinking required, no messy, complicated philosophy or science to consider. The religious narrative is always straightforward, with easily identified winners and (despicable) losers. If you attend services, you are one of the 'proper' people who dress, behave and think alike. That may be an even stronger draw than doing away with fear of death, which most people are able to put aside and not obsess over. Everyday reality lulls us into the attitude that life will just go on. I have relatives who are churchgoers mainly for the social identity perks, and I have relatives who are dogmatic and lockstep believers to the ultimate degree. I customize my interactions with that second set.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Death, the loss of everyone you know and everything you have worked for is a powerful and scary element for some to seriously contemplate. Faith, it appears, is a convenient and comforting psychological escape from the thought of annihilation.

It's escapism pure and simple. A couple gin and sodas do the same for me but don't have me sacrificing my scientific literacy on the altar of woo.

 

[Angry Floof]

For most religious people, it's just life. It's how they were raised. They did not make any conscious choice to be religious at any point in their lives. Their "reasoning" was not conscious and therefore not a verbal narrative. That lies on top of subconscious influences.

Once they are teens or adults and confront the fact that not everyone in the world feels kindly toward the only world view they know, that's when the justifications start to form. They are not reasons that people join or remain in religious groups. No one sits down and decides, "Hey, this sounds really good. I'm going to join a religion for these conscious reasons." We already know that religion provides nothing that can't be had without it. The reason religion exists at all lies in subconscious human needs. The need seems to be met when religion is encountered, or there is a promise of meeting needs or offering relief from suffering. The "Hey, this sounds good" person is justifying after the fact the feeling of the need being met or seeming to be met.

It's hard to talk about this without applying the kind of reason and logic we might use consciously, but subconscious, invisible (but felt and experienced) fears and desires often rooted in infancy do not care what our frontal lobes are doing. They don't care what stories our fancy new brain cortices are telling us except the part that sounds like comfort or relief or safety. Being accepted, forgiven, loved in close proximity to other humans is a basic human need.

Even people who choose religion as an adult are not choosing because of reason or logic. Unless we're talking about the less common strain of religion that does not prey on ignorance and fear to pull people in and separate them from the world and from themselves in various ways, but actually do offer help and relief and community, no strings attached, then even that adult who claims they thought it through and consciously chose to believe based on facts and reason is responding to a deeper need that they are unaware of or don't want to reveal. No one consciously chooses lies or openly says so if they do.

There is no humane, sane reason to tell people their in-group is separate from the rest of the world, especially when told that it's because the group is morally superior, or to tell them they are broken or unacceptable and some level of conformity can fix them, or to tell them they have a magical, almighty father figure who loves them unconditionally and can protect and comfort them, but will also punish them if they don't obey without question and believe a convoluted story of supernatural human sacrifice, or to tell them the world will lie to them and this group is the only place where they will find truth and this is the only place where you are truly safe, or to tell them that the group and its beliefs are the epitome of goodness in the world and the road to human betterment lies in church attendance and prayer.

Of course I can go on and on and everyone here knows it. No one can give any humane and sane reason to use any of these manipulative tales and lies if they honestly, truly want to ease suffering and help people find truth and nothing more, and frankly, I think the urge to control people with these lies is rooted in their own ignorance of themselves as human beings. If you can't recognize and value your own humanity, how would you recognize and value others'? How would you trust them to be ok in the world with only support and friendship and self esteem and not control and manipulation and a circle of wagons making them afraid of it all or at the very least making them feel unfounded superiority if you don't know that you yourself are ok in the world without the crutches and ingrained fears of religion?

I'm too tired to go on at the moment, but it's worthwhile conversation and I'm going to keep on talking about it. When it becomes taboo to lie to children and hijack their innocent sense of self preservation, to tell people they have reason to be ashamed when they don't instead of teaching them how to protect themselves from abuse by disingenuous shamers, to protect authority figures from accountability and creating an environment where abusers feel comfortable and even justified in their abuses, to prey on primal fears of separation from the safety of the group, to lie about their own nature as human beings, to lie about the nature of the world around them, then I'll stop shaming the shamers right back and exposing the inhumane lies in their ideology.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I'm glad you brought it back to kids at the end. How terrible it is to indoctrinate kids in a religion, especially if there's a hell in it. It calls a halt to their curiosity and critical thinking, and it teaches them that the group think is to be accepted on faith, that there's something wrong with doubt and questions.
On the hopeful side, I am distantly related to a young man who grew up in a church-going family, although not in an atmosphere of fanaticism, who deconverted in college -- and then deconverted both his parents. I love that.

 

[DBT]

And confusing for children when they have adults presenting them with science and evolution on the one hand and special creation and God, an inexplicable Creator of the Universe, on the other.

 

[Treedbear]

And confusing for children when they have adults presenting them with science and evolution on the one hand and special creation and God, an inexplicable Creator of the Universe, on the other.

Sometimes a bit of confusion works wonders.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

For most religious people, it's just life. It's how they were raised. They did not make any conscious choice to be religious at any point in their lives. Their "reasoning" was not conscious and therefore not a verbal narrative. That lies on top of subconscious influences.

Once they are teens or adults and confront the fact that not everyone in the world feels kindly toward the only world view they know, that's when the justifications start to form. They are not reasons that people join or remain in religious groups. No one sits down and decides, "Hey, this sounds really good. I'm going to join a religion for these conscious reasons." We already know that religion provides nothing that can't be had without it. The reason religion exists at all lies in subconscious human needs. The need seems to be met when religion is encountered, or there is a promise of meeting needs or offering relief from suffering. The "Hey, this sounds good" person is justifying after the fact the feeling of the need being met or seeming to be met.

It's hard to talk about this without applying the kind of reason and logic we might use consciously, but subconscious, invisible (but felt and experienced) fears and desires often rooted in infancy do not care what our frontal lobes are doing. They don't care what stories our fancy new brain cortices are telling us except the part that sounds like comfort or relief or safety. Being accepted, forgiven, loved in close proximity to other humans is a basic human need.

Even people who choose religion as an adult are not choosing because of reason or logic. Unless we're talking about the less common strain of religion that does not prey on ignorance and fear to pull people in and separate them from the world and from themselves in various ways, but actually do offer help and relief and community, no strings attached, then even that adult who claims they thought it through and consciously chose to believe based on facts and reason is responding to a deeper need that they are unaware of or don't want to reveal. No one consciously chooses lies or openly says so if they do.

There is no humane, sane reason to tell people their in-group is separate from the rest of the world, especially when told that it's because the group is morally superior, or to tell them they are broken or unacceptable and some level of conformity can fix them, or to tell them they have a magical, almighty father figure who loves them unconditionally and can protect and comfort them, but will also punish them if they don't obey without question and believe a convoluted story of supernatural human sacrifice, or to tell them the world will lie to them and this group is the only place where they will find truth and this is the only place where you are truly safe, or to tell them that the group and its beliefs are the epitome of goodness in the world and the road to human betterment lies in church attendance and prayer.

Of course I can go on and on and everyone here knows it. No one can give any humane and sane reason to use any of these manipulative tales and lies if they honestly, truly want to ease suffering and help people find truth and nothing more, and frankly, I think the urge to control people with these lies is rooted in their own ignorance of themselves as human beings. If you can't recognize and value your own humanity, how would you recognize and value others'? How would you trust them to be ok in the world with only support and friendship and self esteem and not control and manipulation and a circle of wagons making them afraid of it all or at the very least making them feel unfounded superiority if you don't know that you yourself are ok in the world without the crutches and ingrained fears of religion?

I'm too tired to go on at the moment, but it's worthwhile conversation and I'm going to keep on talking about it. When it becomes taboo to lie to children and hijack their innocent sense of self preservation, to tell people they have reason to be ashamed when they don't instead of teaching them how to protect themselves from abuse by disingenuous shamers, to protect authority figures from accountability and creating an environment where abusers feel comfortable and even justified in their abuses, to prey on primal fears of separation from the safety of the group, to lie about their own nature as human beings, to lie about the nature of the world around them, then I'll stop shaming the shamers right back and exposing the inhumane lies in their ideology.

That is an awesomely great post. I long ago recognized that much of the religious urge is the act of projecting one's own insecurities and ignorance onto others and onto other groups. I also agree that it is not a conscious considered position to do. It is impossible to use knowledge and experience one does not possess. Religion is largely and primarily pseudo knowledge. It's comforting lies that satisfy a level of knowledge and understanding. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it certainly short circuits the learning process and critical observation.

 

[Angry Floof]

I long ago recognized that much of the religious urge is the act of projecting one's own insecurities and ignorance onto others and onto other groups. I also agree that it is not a conscious considered position to do. It is impossible to use knowledge and experience one does not possess.

Bingo. But it is possible to pretend to, to others and to yourself. And if that offers more benefit than the truth, there you go.

Religion is largely and primarily pseudo knowledge. It's comforting lies that satisfy a level of knowledge and understanding. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it certainly short circuits the learning process and critical observation.

I like that term: pseudo knowledge. It's a distinction from "woo," which is where people try to make their beliefs sound sciency and logical (to try to persuade critics), not spiritual or blind faith based ("it's my opinion and my choice, agree to disagree," etc.), although many a religious apologist does employ woo sometimes. Pseudo knowledge doesn't have to sound sciency or even slightly logical for the flock. Whatever variation of the story, it's good enough. It's good enough. That's all. It doesn't matter if it makes sense because believing it doesn't cause enough real, experienced discomfort and does offer a sort of key fob into the real, experienced comfort and safety of the community, the ideological circle of wagons.

Unless and until they see abuse and make the choice to question it, expose abusers, and/or take the scary and difficult route of leaving the group and essentially becoming an enemy of the group. The majority of religious authorities and churches are not abusive, or at least not abusive enough for anyone to challenge it (or so abusive that everyone's too scared to do anything about it). I've seen many a "non-abusive" church end up in headlines, though, so maybe I'm being too generous. Hard to say, but any abuse is too much and any organizational structure and environment that offers the ability for abusers to abuse and be protected from accountability should be closely scrutinized by the rest of us.

Side story: One church in particular was my sister's friend's church. My sister and her husband are pastors and good friends with the leaders of the church. Such nice people! Some I've known since childhood in my family's church days! Super sweet and kind! Such an open hearted, liberal church! Except a married youth pastor decided to engage in sexting with underage girls in the church and the girl who exposed this was vilified and besmirched with astounding levels of venom and dishonesty. And all she did was tell the truth about an authority figure in the church who abused his position to degrade girls for his sexual gratification. So there you go.

That is an awesomely great post.

Thanks, and so is yours. I'll probably be using "pseudo knowledge" a lot from now on.

 

[steve_bank]

Death, the loss of everyone you know and everything you have worked for is a powerful and scary element for some to seriously contemplate. Faith, it appears, is a convenient and comforting psychological escape from the thought of annihilation.

Not just faith in religion, we all or maybe most of us find a way to adjust to reality. It is somthimes called comming to terms with reality or getting right with the world.

Today te culture is immersed in 24/7 diversion. 24/7 meal delivery and Netflix. Until the spread of pot alchohol was the standard escape. And then there is sex outside of procreation.

What has been reported in the pandemic is that deprived of a daily routine alcoholism, drug addiction, and suicide has risen. People have lost the ability to cope with reality without a crutch. Christians would argue religious faith fills that hole.

In the 70s I had a philosophy prof who said 'the message is escape baby'. The ancient philosophers with nothing else created metaphysic's providing endless distraction that has lasted throughout history. People today deate the same questions.

What is reality.

Being now forcibly retired this forum is a distraction. During the day I play around with math.

I found an old math book circa early 1900s in a used book store. Back then average people did math problems and puxxles for fun. Many crossword puzzle publications. The NYT still has a crossword puzzle.

Now it is video games.

We all find a way to rationalize our existence in a chaotic, unstable, violent and corrupt world. Religion is but one of many ways..