Rationalizing faith.

[ideologyhunter]

You may be leaving, but...
1) I don't believe a word of the Christian narrative, and
2) I still don't "hate" Jesus.
You should at least examine that trope a bit more.

 

[steve_bank]

The forum is about Freethought and debate. Not a mutual admiration society. Forum members who have gone on Christian n forums tend to quickly get banned.

Perhaps Danial In The Lions Den is appropriate. If you truly have faith what have you to fear from us? While atheist I do love biblical metaphors.

Not a mutual admiration society? After all this time since joining this forum, "all my wasted attempts and efforts is some delusional fantasy?"
(should have got the hint when It has been mentioned I'm uneducayted with cognitive issues)

Buddy, I'm outa here!!!
:

Now you are playing e Christian martyr suffering in the name of Jesus. We are immune. You ahve earned your merit badge and can now display it among your peers having survivedhe brutal Jesus hating atheists.

Again we have heard it al before. In the past there has been a steady stream of theists out to earn their stripes.

I kow you are unable to resond with an answer brcsue iyt nefates yr rationalization. However, if Jesus did not allegedly suffer and die, would there have been a Christianity? Jesus had his moment of dought in the garden, and then went willingly to his fate without argument or complaint.


Was not all of it part of god's plan for salvation? A god offers his human son as a sacrificial lamb subjected to torment and torture? Today the fater goes to jail for child abuse....

That is the reality of the narrative...my friend.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Also, the Christians need to rephrase that business that God 'sacrificed' or 'gave' his son so that...etc. According to Christian orthodoxy, Jesus ascended to heaven and sits at the side of God the Father. Some sacrifice and giving. They have each other for eternity, as the story goes. If I tell you I'm going to make a sacrifice and give you $10,000 to complete your last year of college, the money doesn't show up again in my checking account. John 3:16 describes a God who didn't sacrifice (lose, give up) anything.

 

[Rhea]

Can you name some of these people who allegedly hate Jesus? Because I am drawing a complete blank here. I don't know anyone who actually hates Sauron or Voldemort either.

Sure. You may of not read some of the previous posts, but Christianity discussed was contextually THROUGHOUT HISTORY! Those that killed him, for a start were haters of Jesus! So who would be the equivalent to Herod, the pharisees, sadducees and the mob, who were calling for the blood of Jesus, in the world of Sauron or Voldemorts?

Wait, are you saying that the answer to this question is to look in a story that was written to have antagonists and say, “look! See? Antagonists!”

I’m not sure if you are joking. But I don’t think it lends any credence to your story to say that the book someone wrote about a character named Jesus said there would be those that hated Jesus and if you look at the book that predicted that, you can see that the people who hated Jesus are cleverly written in, just where the author predicted they would be written in!.


I mean, um… most books are written that way?


You have to remember that your book is not a history. It exists in a vacuum. The rest of history didn’t notice its floods and its stars and its sun standing still and its earthquakes and its zombies and its censuses and its plagues and its exodus.

So your claim for proof being that your book contains your claim is…. “So what?” They could have written anything. They did.

To clarify this aspect: In the 'manner of speaking' OR 'generally speaking', in terms of the contextual understanding that's easily derived - like from the same narrative example as: those who hate Gods laws hate God etc..

I’m sorry but I do not understand this sentence.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You may be leaving, but...
1) I don't believe a word of the Christian narrative, and
2) I still don't "hate" Jesus.
You should at least examine that trope a bit more.

And just for the record, I don't hate Bilbo, Frodo or Sauron.

 

[DBT]

The forum is about Freethought and debate. Not a mutual admiration society. Forum members who have gone on Christian n forums tend to quickly get banned.

Perhaps Danial In The Lions Den is appropriate. If you truly have faith what have you to fear from us? While atheist I do love biblical metaphors.

Not a mutual admiration society? After all this time since joining this forum, "all my wasted attempts and efforts is some delusional fantasy?"
(should have got the hint when It has been mentioned I'm uneducayted with cognitive issues)

Buddy, I'm outa here!!!
:

Why do you believe? What is it that convinces you that Christian theology is indeed true and factual?

 

[steve_bank]

The more I participate on the religion forum the harder it is to maintain a sense of tolerance.

 

[Rhea]

What parts are hard to tolerate?

 

[atrib]

Sure. You may of not read some of the previous posts, but Christianity discussed was contextually THROUGHOUT HISTORY! Those that killed him, for a start were haters of Jesus! So who would be the equivalent to Herod, the pharisees, sadducees and the mob, who were calling for the blood of Jesus, in the world of Sauron or Voldemorts?

Why should we believe the stories of the Bible? Can you produce some evidence to support your claim that Jesus existed, and that he was hated by the people you claim hated him? Do you believe Hobbits hated Sauron because there is a story in a book about a few Hobbits going to war against Sauron, and destroying a ring he coveted?

You can act like a smug, dishonest Christian who pretends that he doesn't understand what people are saying. Or you can try to engage in an open and honest manner. Why do you always choose the former?

Seriously, you'll have to 'expand a little more in thought' ... in scope to the whole of Christianity's historic existence, rather than, as you (plural) usually seem to do, make little arguments, ignoring all other aspects against the Christian faith, like for example: those who are opposed to Christianity as according to Jesus, simply because that way of life conflicts with THEIR own way of life.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. And I don't think you do either. What we see here is a brain that is unable to put together coherent logical thoughts and communicate them to others. Possibly because you can't be bothered to put in the effort.

To clarify this aspect: In the 'manner of speaking' OR 'generally speaking', in terms of the contextual understanding that's easily derived - like from the same narrative example as: those who hate Gods laws hate God etc..

God's laws, or the version you appear to be pointing to here, don't apply to me. I am not bound by those laws, any more than I am bound by the laws of Sauron. I don't hate these made-up laws you found in a book, and I certainly don't hate the primary protagonist described in the book. It is dishonest of you to insist that I hate an imaginary character, despite me telling you that I don't.

The main threat to Christianity is the fact that it is a religion based on a made up story which is both unsupported by evidence, and also lacking in wisdom or even common sense in many cases. The main threat to Christianity is a careful reading of the Bible accompanied by critical analyses of the various claims the book makes. You should try it sometime.

So I've heard. Hmm... this "made up story" rhetoric needs to be supported, if you (anyone) want the "Christian faith to finally, once an for all, be put to bed?" Meanwhile for the time being ... the debate will keep going on.

Wrong again. I don't find the supernatural stories of the Bible credible because I have seen no evidence that would make me believe they were credible. That's all I need to say to defend my position. If you make the claim that the stories are true, and you want to be taken seriously by others, it is your responsibility to provide the evidence to support the stories. I know you understand this, and it is dishonest of you to pretend that you don't.

 

[steve_bank]

What parts are hard to tolerate?

Surely you jets.

I belive tolerance of thought is te right thing to do. Without it our system is meningless.

The craziness is becomming more acute week by week.
n
Religious exemptions for vaccies. Educated polticians in ciongress beseeching a deity for intercession.

Demonizing by agrous of Christians those who d not belive. They do not have the direct power of law as clerics do in Saudi Arabia or Ira, but they would like ton.

The white supremist hate mongers have always been rooted in scripture.

Israel is enacing a slow motion ethnic cleansing based on the idea god gave the land to them. Divine right. Netanyahu has been explicit, god gave Plaestine to the Jews. He is a Jewish consevative biblical literalist.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

What parts are hard to tolerate?

Surely you jets.

I belive tolerance of thought is te right thing to do. Without it our system is meningless.

The craziness is becomming more acute week by week.
n
Religious exemptions for vaccies. Educated polticians in ciongress beseeching a deity for intercession.

Demonizing by agrous of Christians those who d not belive. They do not have the direct power of law as clerics do in Saudi Arabia or Ira, but they would like ton.

The white supremist hate mongers have always been rooted in scripture.

Israel is enacing a slow motion ethnic cleansing based on the idea god gave the land to them. Divine right. Netanyahu has been explicit, god gave Plaestine to the Jews. He is a Jewish consevative biblical literalist.

That's all standard, predictable, human behavior. There isn't anything to be surprised about. Not all members of our species do dopey things like that but to say things are getting worse is certainly not accurate. If anything, things are getting better, only painfully slowly.

 

[DBT]

If anything, the scale of everything is getting larger, religion, politics, commercialism, industry, etc. There have never been eight billion plus humans on the planet doing what we do.

 

[Rhea]

What parts are hard to tolerate?

Surely you jets.

I belive tolerance of thought is te right thing to do. Without it our system is meningless.

The craziness is becomming more acute week by week.
n
Religious exemptions for vaccies. Educated polticians in ciongress beseeching a deity for intercession.

Demonizing by agrous of Christians those who d not belive. They do not have the direct power of law as clerics do in Saudi Arabia or Ira, but they would like ton.

The white supremist hate mongers have always been rooted in scripture.

Israel is enacing a slow motion ethnic cleansing based on the idea god gave the land to them. Divine right. Netanyahu has been explicit, god gave Plaestine to the Jews. He is a Jewish consevative biblical literalist.

Oh, I misunderstood your meaning. Thanks. Yes this akes sense to me.

 

[DBT]

The situation is quite absurd. It's not hard to recognize or figure out. Yet here we are.

 

[steve_bank]

Maybe it it is just that I am becoming more consciously aware of religion with time on my hands, but it seems to be getting worse.

Trump pandering to Christians added to it. Christians sad the old 'god works in mysterious ways' cliche. Trump is an instrument of god sent to recue them from the Jesus god haters..

 

[DBT]

Maybe it it is just that I am becoming more consciously aware of religion with time on my hands, but it seems to be getting worse.

Trump pandering to Christians added to it. Christians sad the old 'god works in mysterious ways' cliche. Trump is an instrument of god sent to recue them from the Jesus god haters..

I'd say there are, as the old Chinese curse has it, interesting times ahead.

 

[steve_bank]

Maybe it it is just that I am becoming more consciously aware of religion with time on my hands, but it seems to be getting worse.

Trump pandering to Christians added to it. Christians sad the old 'god works in mysterious ways' cliche. Trump is an instrument of god sent to recue them from the Jesus god haters..

I'd say there are, as the old Chinese curse has it, interesting times ahead.

Don't look back, the grizzly bears may be gaining on you.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Why any person is seemingly compelled to rationalize his or her attachment to woo is ultimately a scientific investigation and discussion, there being a very physical explanation for the behavior. Knowing this makes tolerating the condition a whole lot less uncomfortable, kinda eliminates the spookiness factor.

In the end there are probably two kinds of persons in the woo family, those who have the woo gene and those who manipulate persons who have it. It's the second kind that are the bigger problem.

 

[steve_bank]

When I go to be I sometimes lsten to George Norey on Coast To Coast AM. Radio central for woo and psedo scince. He inherted from Art Bell.

It is hard to tell if people who call in really believe or are just goofing around, but some seem true believers. Norey professes to be religious.

Even with a scince background I can have a hard time telling real scince form pseudo scine withut going deepre.

Those without any background are helpless.

I'd say it s the same for the pathologcal believers.

It is beyond their knowledge and ability to discriminate between reality and myth.

I knew an Evangelical in Seattle who made periodic trips to a North California faith healing center.

He would go on about how faith healing really works and would list a number of reports, but he never actually witnessed an occurrence. The belief becomes gangrened and impossible to change. It becomes hard wired in the rain.

I'd say it is like trying to get someone to overcome a drug addiction, very hard to do even with experienced professionals.

 

[DBT]

There are posters on another forum who are genuinely arguing for flat earth cosmology, citing numerous videos of 'proof' that we have all been fooled by a grand conspiracy to suppress biblical truth.