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Climate Change(d)?

I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.
 
Indeed it is. But there's a certain kind of smugly confident ignorance that's almost uniquely American. It's not really a geographical thing though, it's a fundamentalist Christian thing - you needn't be American to have it, though most who have it are. You needn't even be a Christian, but you do need to have been strongly influenced by the type in your formative years. That level of childhood exposure pretty much ceased in the developed world in the middle of the twentieth century. But it persists in the USA.

Those Americans who suffer it are as oblivious to this brand of ignorance as fish are to water, and for the same reasons.

It leads to all kinds of denial of reality, from denial of climate change and pandemic diseases, to denial of Donald Trump's imbecility. Denial of personal privilege is another common symptom, as is denial of all familial, societal and infrastructural assistance in personal success.

Cultural stereotypes exist for a reason. They may be caricatures, but there's frequently a grain of truth in them.

I don't usually reply to your posts, but this one cries out.

A Brit calling Americans uppity, arrogant, and smug is rather a bit ironic old chum, wouldn't you say?.

I didn't call Americans any of those things, though I did describe their confidence as 'smug'. Perhaps fewer ignorant assumptions on your part would be wise, if you don't want to conform to the American stereotype I actually described.

Tu Quoque, even if accurate, is not a defence, by the way.

And if you want to upset me by attacking my country of birth, you're barking up the wrong tree. Patriotism is stupid, and I already decided some twenty five years ago that I didn't much care for Britain, and left.

More Americans, and more Englishmen, should abandon their blind knee-jerk patriotism. It would very significantly improve their countries if they did.
 
I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.
 
I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.

I personally know several climate scientists and they are not activists. there may be some who are but most are simply scientists studying the climate and publishing their results.

You still haven’t substantively addressed my point yet though.
 
I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.

I personally know several climate scientists and they are not activists. there may be some who are but most are simply scientists studying the climate and publishing their results.

You still haven’t substantively addressed my point yet though.

The climate "scientists" have been spectacularly wrong with every apocalyptic prediction of impending doom they have made. "We only have 10 years to save the planet" every so often. Utter bullshit.

It really is a rapture like cult.
 
Climate simulation shoud get better as tim provides mire data to improve the model.
'
The idea that climate science represents a claim of absolutely accuracy is ignorance.

Predicting weather used to be about 50/50. As models imporoved based o usage local weather out for wa week or more can be very accurate. Tmperatures withib few degrees.

MAcconnell a leader in our confress brought a snow ball into a session, wnet to the podium. and exclaimed if ther is snow in DC how can tgier be warming?

It is a ratiomnalization for inaction. We are already seeing the effects.

Many small changes yjat will add up. Globaly lake tempertures are risng.

Here in Lake Washington a salmon run is conditioned by temperature. The fish arrive when there is an algae bloom that feeds a prey fish for the salmon. The bloom is based on water temperature. Now the salmon arrive past the bloom.

Higher river temps depletes O2 for spawning salmon. They suffocate.

It des not have to be linear and predictable, there can be non linear tipping points.

The idea that scientists are getting it wrong is ignorant rationalization.

If the ocean ecosystem including reefs collapse humans die off.

We are about to ge an attitude check on our humans as above nature attitude. Hunan's control nature.
.
 
Baffling why so many expect earth's climate to be static.

Climate change/crisis/emergency. A rapture like cult.

Carry on.
Baffling that the climate deniers deny the very same scientific pursuit that they rely on to tell them that the climate has changed in the past.

LOL, "climate denier". WT actual F is a climate denier ? No one, absolutely no one denies climate.

It's a religion for you lot.

"Climate denier" is simply a shortening of "Climate change denier". People who pretend the CO2 we are dumping in the atmosphere doesn't matter.
 
I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.

Your state is a tinderbox. You've already had one town basically burned down.

Farmers are ripping out almond trees because they don't have enough water for them.

You think that's a nothing?
 
It isn't just humans who died in the Northwest heat wave.
N.Y. Times said:
Dead mussels and clams coated rocks in the Pacific Northwest, their shells gaping open as if they’d been boiled. Sea stars were baked to death. Sockeye salmon swam sluggishly in an overheated Washington river, prompting wildlife officials to truck them to cooler areas.

The combination of extraordinary heat and drought that hit the Western United States and Canada over the past two weeks has killed hundreds of millions of marine animals and continues to threaten untold species in freshwater, according to a preliminary estimate and interviews with scientists.

“It just feels like one of those postapocalyptic movies,” said Christopher Harley, a marine biologist at the University of British Columbia who studies the effects of climate change on coastal marine ecosystems.

To calculate the death toll, Dr. Harley first looked at how many blue mussels live on a particular shoreline, how much of the area is good habitat for mussels and what fraction of the mussels he observed died. He estimated losses for the mussels alone in the hundreds of millions. Factoring in the other creatures that live in the mussel beds and on the shore — barnacles, hermit crabs and other crustaceans, various worms, tiny sea cucumbers — puts the deaths at easily over a billion, he said.
...
When he walked to the beach last week on one of the hottest days, the smell of decay struck him immediately. The scientist in him was excited, he admitted, to see the real-life effect of something he’d been studying for so long.

But his mood quickly changed.

“The more I walked and the more I saw, the more sobering it all became,” Dr. Harley said. “It just went on and on and on.”

The dead sea stars, usually the most eye-catching creatures in tidal pools, hit him particularly hard. But the obvious mass victims were blue mussels, an ecologically important species that feeds sea stars and sea ducks and creates habitat for other animals.
...
“We are already at critical temperatures three weeks before the most serious heating occurs,” said Don Chapman, a retired fisheries biologist who specialized in salmon and steelhead trout, talking about conditions along the Snake River in Washington, where four dams are the subject of longstanding controversy. “I think we’re headed for disaster.”

The plight of the salmon illustrates a broader danger facing all kinds of species as climate change worsens. Many animals were already struggling to survive because of human activity degrading their habitats. Throw in extreme heat and drought, and their odds of survival diminish.
The article doesn't clarify whether Dr. Harley is a scientist with a PhD, or a "scientist" with a "PhD."
 
LOL, "climate denier". WT actual F is a climate denier ? No one, absolutely no one denies climate.

It's a religion for you lot.

"Climate denier" is simply a shortening of "Climate change denier". People who pretend the CO2 we are dumping in the atmosphere doesn't matter.

He knows this but by arguing the semantics he can avoid arguing the substance.
 
I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.

Your state is a tinderbox. You've already had one town basically burned down.

Farmers are ripping out almond trees because they don't have enough water for them.

You think that's a nothing?
But the climate scientists that can’t be trusted tell us that climate always changes so that explains the current situation. They can be trusted to get that part right but can’t be trusted to get the part right that goes against the right’s current political climate. How about them cherries?
 
Your state is a tinderbox. You've already had one town basically burned down.

Farmers are ripping out almond trees because they don't have enough water for them.

You think that's a nothing?
But the climate scientists that can’t be trusted tell us that climate always changes so that explains the current situation. They can be trusted to get that part right but can’t be trusted to get the part right that goes against the right’s current political climate. How about them cherries?
It's the TSwizzle Right Wing Soap Opera. Can't you hear the music?
 
It isn't just humans who died in the Northwest heat wave.
N.Y. Times said:
“It just feels like one of those postapocalyptic movies,” said Christopher Harley, a marine biologist at the University of British Columbia who studies the effects of climate change on coastal marine ecosystems.

“We are already at critical temperatures three weeks before the most serious heating occurs,” said Don Chapman, a retired fisheries biologist who specialized in salmon and steelhead trout, talking about conditions along the Snake River in Washington, where four dams are the subject of longstanding controversy. “I think we’re headed for disaster.”
The article doesn't clarify whether Dr. Harley is a scientist with a PhD, or a "scientist" with a "PhD."

He's definitely an alarmist. Warmly embraced by the religious at the NYT.

A rapture like cult.
 
Obviously, the best time to raise an alarm is *after* the disaster hits. That way you can be 100% sure of your prediction. No one will believe you if you can’t predict it exactly.
 
Obviously, the best time to raise an alarm is *after* the disaster hits. That way you can be 100% sure of your prediction. No one will believe you if you can’t predict it exactly.

Since every apocalyptical prediction has failed to materialize thus far, I'll risk it.

Just another seven years to save the planet again.

Rapture like cult.
 
It depends on how you deine apocalyptic.

In the news shallow water marine life on the NW coast are being cooked alive.

According to the UN food insecurity which was stedily decreasing is going back up. Drought, heta, and loss of crops.

The UW has predicted with falling snow paks the Columbia River will draw down. Sbow in winter melts, runss off to tte Colombia, amd [rvides wtaer for farming in eastern Washington and Oregon.

Decades back a govt report predicted we will no longer be a net agriculture exported.

Loss of water and food supplies is what, if not apocalyptical then what?

And who in credible science is claiming an impending immediate catastrophe? That sounds like a FOX News commentary. They find people with a science degree who is off the riails and quote the person as if it represents 'science'.

Climate modeling is base on the same science and math as routine weather and hurricane predictions. The forcast may say 140 mph winds and it is actualt 100 mph does not matter. There is still destruction.

Whether the temperature goes up 5 degrees or 10 digress is irrelevant, there will be disruptions. We are meaning a global temperature rise and observing consequences.
 
And who in credible science is claiming an impending immediate catastrophe?

“Credible” ? Most of the reporting/studies on the upcoming catastrophes just aren’t credible. Sensationalist nonsense not based in science at all.
That sounds like a FOX News commentary..

Try reading The Gruaniad sometime.
 
And who in credible science is claiming an impending immediate catastrophe?

“Credible” ? Most of the reporting/studies on the upcoming catastrophes just aren’t credible. Sensationalist nonsense not based in science at all.
That sounds like a FOX News commentary..

Try reading The Gruaniad sometime.
I get my science from scientific sources not journalistic ones. Journalists always blow everything out of proportion, even in astronomy, my primary field. And then to take a politically charged field, like climate science has been forced to become, it is going to be even harder to easily obtain proper scientific information. My guess is the apocalyptic predictions are not straight out of science journals but have been filtered by journalists and activists, as you say, and it is unfortunate because the real science becomes obscured and mistrusted by those without direct access to it.
 
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